528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#51 Post by swo17 » Sat May 15, 2010 10:18 am

david hare wrote:The only obstacle I think I see here is Paramount wanting more dough.
I agree. "We don't have the rights for Blu" is a good line to get customers to back off from the issue, but there has to be a price at which Blu rights can be attained. Criterion may just need some convincing that that price is worth it (put my name on a petition!) though it may be a tough sell since we're talking about not one film here but three.

User avatar
Florinaldo
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#52 Post by Florinaldo » Sat May 15, 2010 10:27 am

david hare wrote:So you're saying we dont bother to try changing their position on negotiating a BluRay edition when HD masters are available?
Isn't it Paramount's position that is posing a problem here, not Criterion's?

I am very happy to see these becoming available, even if "only" in SD.

I have only seen Docks of New York (and excerpts from Underworld) and I can only confirm it is indeed a masterpiece, which impressed me more than most of Sternberg's later efforts, including his collaborations with Dietrich; any classic film collection can only be enriched by including these.

User avatar
Knappen
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:14 am
Location: Oslo/Paris

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#53 Post by Knappen » Sat May 15, 2010 5:07 pm

Schreck, Thunderbolt will be showing on French TV Cinéma de minuit on May 30th, so you got a rendez-vous in one of the back channels of the internet the 31st!

User avatar
Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#54 Post by Tommaso » Sat May 15, 2010 5:59 pm

Great, Knappen. I hope it's okay if I join the party :wink:

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#55 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat May 15, 2010 6:26 pm

Heh heh heh " " " " "......

Looking forward to a better look.

The scene where Bancroft wiggles his ass around the staircase w the dog. Christ I nearly herniated my tearducts laughing so hard.

User avatar
htdm
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:46 am

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#56 Post by htdm » Sun May 16, 2010 1:02 am

This is the release of the year!
Fantastic that Criterion released this rather than through Eclipse.
What a brilliant release!

User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#57 Post by cdnchris » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:15 pm

I think you'll be rather thrilled. I've only watch Underworld so far, but I'm surprised by the conditions of the materials. As expected there are scratches and flickering, and there can be a softness to the image from time to time, but as a whole it's very clean, and the digital transfer itself is rather sharp, handles the grain incredibly well (I don't think it ever looks like noise) and I was happy with the gray levels. It would have looked great on BD, I'm sure, but it looks incredible on DVD and I certainly wouldn't kick this set out of bed (again, only based on Underworld.)

Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#58 Post by Jonathan S » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:28 pm

On Nitrateville yesterday (it was a review copy):
Mike Gebert wrote:Got these today.
Each has its own number, and is in a cardboard jacket within the box.
Now that the most important question is out of the way...
One thing really mattered to me about this set-- that Docks of New York look fantastic.
It does. The gauzy foggy chiaroscuro gorgeousness of the film looks as breathtakingly beautiful and romantic as any silent on DVD. Three-dimensional detail.
Underworld and Last Command look good, but not this good. Less contrast, less roundness of detail. But certainly very good.

User avatar
matrixschmatrix
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#59 Post by matrixschmatrix » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:33 pm

Is there any word on the quality of the extras? I'm curious about the visual essays, whether they're the ideal in-depth almost commentary level discussion of specific aspects of the movies like a lot of the ones we've been getting lately or just the seven minute borderline Powerpoint presentation kind of bullshit.

User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#60 Post by cdnchris » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:55 pm

Underworld

I usually wait until I've gone through all of the discs in a set but I won't be able to get to the others until next week so thought I'd at least get Underworld up since I've gone through it already.

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#61 Post by knives » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:37 am

That one middle cap with the man's face against the window is amazing. I really can't wait for this to arrive. I'll probably even break order and start watching them on day one.

User avatar
Napier
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:48 am
Location: The Shire

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#62 Post by Napier » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:19 pm


User avatar
Killerinstinct
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#63 Post by Killerinstinct » Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:51 pm

HTF actually beat the beaver to it this time around.

User avatar
Murdoch
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#64 Post by Murdoch » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:04 pm

I need it now!

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#65 Post by Finch » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:46 am

My set arrived today and it looks beautiful. Between this and the Flynn/Raoul Walsh set, my weekend is going to be utter bliss.

User avatar
oldsheperd
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:18 pm
Location: Rio Rancho/Albuquerque

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#66 Post by oldsheperd » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Anyone hope they'll revisit Scarlet Empress? Are they still looking for better elements?

User avatar
What A Disgrace
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#67 Post by What A Disgrace » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:38 pm

I'm pretty sure the "better elements" were used for the R2 release. I can only imagine Criterion are trying to find space in their schedule, and supplementary materials for a re-release (hopefully Blu) or Scarlet Empress. It might make a great double bill with their long-awaited Shanghai Express (and maybe a triple bill with Dishonored).

And I hope they do the same with the Sirks.

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#68 Post by Finch » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:36 am

Haven't seen Docks of New York yet but barring any late surprises, this has got to be the release of the year across DVD and Blu and across all companies. It's astounding how just how alive and brimming with intensity these films are (Sternberg's close-ups, especially of Emil Janning in Last Command, rival the best of Dreyer in their emotional impact) and how he communicates emotion and meanings in the most simple, direct and yet completely refined shots and sequences (one example of this would be that exquisite moment in Underworld when Feathers enters the Dreamland cafe at the top of the staircase and a thread from her coat floats through the air before it's picked up by Rolls Royce; he looks up and is instantly smitten with her). These films feel utterly fresh and modern, and though I have only seen Shanghai Express, Blue Angel and The Devil is a Woman previously, these quite magnificent silents feel very much of a piece with Sternberg's subsequent talkies. Gallagher's and Bergstrom's visual essays are expectedly most informative and heightened my appreciation of the films further, and the booklet has a very good piece on Underworld (as well as Hecht's original story) (Hecht, a man I usually have a great deal of respect for, lost some points with me after criticising Sternberg's changes but then happily accepting the Academy Award for original story all the same) and excerpts from Sternberg's autobiography. In other words, it's as good as anything commissioned by MoC.

If there's one aspect of the set I'm not sold on, it's the scores. On Underworld and Last Command, I sampled each score for 5-10 minutes, ended up muting the sound and was able to take in the films so much more. Honestly, if you want to get the undiluted impact of this sensual, exquisitely mounted and paced trio, you can't go wrong without the scores (not sure what it is but contemporary composers just don't seem to have the knack for scoring silents; the only scores I've liked to date were Brock's Faust, Davis for The General for the most part, and the score commissioned for Joan of Arc).

Others may get more out of the music but either way, this is a staggeringly beautiful set, both in content and presentation (Last Command exhibiting the most damage and contrast flickering). Make no mistake: this is easily among Criterion's finest hours and an unquestionable must buy. And if you are curious about silents, you could hardly ask for a better introduction.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#69 Post by swo17 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:55 am

Finch wrote:Haven't seen Docks of New York yet but barring any late surprises...
There is like a 20 minute passage where the guys at the dock just sit around belittling near everything about the actor Dennis Franz in scatological detail. Which is sort of tacky, but also kind of impressive for its time, considering he wasn't even born yet. Hopefully you can look past this in your year-end vote.

Werewolf by Night

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#70 Post by Werewolf by Night » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:24 am

I've only watched Underworld so far, but I really enjoyed the Robert Israel score. Very thrilling, but the film has so much of its own rhythm that imagine watching it silent would be no less thrilling. After reading the notes from the composers in the book, I may try watching it again with the Alloy score, but I'm usually highly allergic to them.

I was taken by surprise by the pace of the film. Sternberg's Dietrich pictures usually have such a langorous pace. I'm really looking forward to devouring the rest of the set this weekend.


Werewolf by Night

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#72 Post by Werewolf by Night » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:36 pm

The interview on disc 3 has lengthy clips from The Salvation Hunters and I, Claudius! And he demonstrates his technique for lighting Dietrich on two little Swedish girls.

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#73 Post by Finch » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:29 pm

Just finished watching Docks of New York, and I'm officially hooked on Sternberg. This set is definitely the release of the year in a very crowded field of utterly compelling and addictive releases and labours of love; this particular film, like Underworld before it, adds credence to the claim that silents are the purest form of cinema. I could get drunk on pictures like these two where everything comes together so beautifully: the pacing, the glorious compositions, the tracking shots, the performances and the sheer sensuality of it! I even enjoyed the score on this occasion, and I say this as someone who is usually not keen on Donald Sosin. Having seen the whole set though, I have to second davidhare's question why this wasn't a simultaneous Blu release. The damage, while readily apparent (especially in the final third of Docks), is comparatively much less than in The Only Son where the marks, scratches etc were so prevalent that I felt the BFI's high definition upgrade was a valiant attempt but in the end for naught. Whereas the Sternbergs looked, IMO, totally acceptable to warrant a Blu, and frankly, anything other than a rights issue seems like a flimsy excuse for this to not have been released in 1080p as well. I suspect that Criterion anticipated middling sales at best for this set (they never had that much attachment to silents anyway) but hopefully this will sell beyond their expectations, and at least convince them to put silents other than Chaplins on Blu.

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#74 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:41 pm

Werewolf by Night wrote:The interview on disc 3 has lengthy clips from The Salvation Hunters and I, Claudius! And he demonstrates his technique for lighting Dietrich on two little Swedish girls.
Seemed like the obligatory thing to do when getting Joe in front of a camera for interview with a crew nearby... "Hey von, you think maybe you could light one of these girls laying around here for us so we could uh see how you do it?" He did the same with Brownlow on the segment included for the Scarlet Empress disc.

Count me as another guy slavering for this release, even though I've had decent releases of all three for a time. I will say that the renewed look at Thunderbolt via the European telecast of the restored print really couldn't up its value in my mind-- some of the mise en scene is beautiful, and the use of early sound is intriguing (along with Mamoulian's APPLAUSE, West's ALIBI, Lang, etc). I'm wondering how you felt about it Dave-- did you get a copy of the broadcast via the usual backchannels?

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Re: 528-531 Three Silent Classics by Josef von Sternberg

#75 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:12 pm

Thanx comrade.. I know I owe you a pm over yonder... upheavals on my end resolving, or at least a facsimile of resolving, tending towards a modicum of interior peace at last. Finally.

Anyhow, Thunderbolt: I wasn't sure how you felt after that broadcast. I recall the last time we were discussing our frustrations with the film... especially the material beyond the (legitimately intriguing) nightclub scene in the beginning... you had suggested that until a look at a decently clear print of the film (beyond the washed out .avi's we were relying on back then a couple years ago) surfaced--allowing us an experience of the impact of Joe's compositions and mise en scene-- an accurate assessment of the pic was not really possible, or at least fair. Which I couldn't really argue with, von being a director who crafts much of his narrative substance via the effect of carefully modulated atmosphere, and what he called "an illusion," the highly effective atmospheric worlds he manufactures on the visual plane that are ever impacting and seducing the viewer moment by moment as the narrative unfolds-- therefore with this atrophied by a bad copy, it would be a short-sell to judge the film.

I couldn't really argue with that, but in terms of story and narrative, the flat factual unfoldings onscreen, however drained of von's visual effect, seemed to posess problems difficult to overcome, even with the lushness of his chiaroscuro.

But hey. There's still some damned cool moments in the film.

How amazing would it have been to posess DOCKS in Blu!?? I wish CC could palm off the Blu rights to Kino or something-- their Blu's have been all-around top notch, from what I've been seeing & hearing... and I'm sure they'd leap at the chance to put these three titles, and at least DOCKS out, on Blu.

Post Reply