385 Army of Shadows

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dad1153
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#126 Post by dad1153 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:00 pm

Adam Grikepelis wrote:...if they release Crash on BD, all will be forgiven...
It's out on Blu already:

Image

(wink, wink)

rrenault
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#127 Post by rrenault » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:51 pm

daniel p wrote:One that I have most been waiting for on Blu-ray, can't wait to revisit in HD!

So is this the only Melville that Studio Canal didn't 'snatch away'? I know Le Cercle Rouge and Bob Le Flambour, but how about Le Samourai? Is that still a possibility for Criterion Blu?
Le Cercle Rouge is still in print. Only Bob Le Flambeur seems to have been snatched away by Studio Canal.

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Minkin
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#128 Post by Minkin » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:47 pm


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souvenir
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#129 Post by souvenir » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:19 pm

Interesting that the color timing has been tweaked from the DVD transfer.

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HistoryProf
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#130 Post by HistoryProf » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:53 pm

wow....that looks like a huge improvement due to the infinitely more natural color timing. so glad I ditched the sDVD to upgrade this one.

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Finch
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#131 Post by Finch » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:23 pm

I just finished the Blu: it's the third time I've seen this film now (firmly established as my second favourite Melville) and it remains as indelible and emotionally draining as ever. I don't agree though that the Blu represents a huge improvement over the DVD (which in turn was itself only marginally superior to the BFI): colour and finer grain reproduction are the only real noticeable/significant benefits, other than having the film AND the extras all on one disc. If you are not hugely passionate about the film and not the most ardent videophile, you'd probably be just as happy with the DVD. I don't mean to sound negative though: it's still a good release to have, especially for Melvillians like me, but I can't see this getting too many end of year votes.

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cdnchris
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#132 Post by cdnchris » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:38 am


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swo17
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#133 Post by swo17 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:53 am

Forum members rate this film 5/10?

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Napier
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#134 Post by Napier » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:17 pm

swo17 wrote:Forum members rate this film 5/10?
The user ratings don't seem to be working properly.

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cdnchris
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#135 Post by cdnchris » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:51 pm

THought I fixed that. It's an issue where the Blu-ray and DVDs film scores aren't being averaged together (since theoretically they should be the same film) It looks like only one person voted for the Blu-ray and didn't care for it much.

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Brian C
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#136 Post by Brian C » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:39 pm

Question about the film:

I'm listening to the Vincendeau commentary, and it seems that she gets one plot point very wrong. It's something I feel I've read in a couple of other places, too (don't recall where), and have always thought was wrong. And now watching it again, I'm convinced that I'm right, but since it seems a somewhat common belief I thought I'd ask for other takes. Maybe I'm just seeing things wrong. Anyway, she says a couple times that
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Jean François never learns that his brother is in the Resistance. But this isn't true - he ferries his brother to the submarine that is going to London right before we (the audience) learn that Luc is the Chief.

I always felt like this made Jean François's later sacrifice all the more meaningful, because not only would he be thought of as a deserter by Gerbier and Mathilde, but his own brother - who he idolized - would not only never know what he did but also probably think less of him.

It also, while re-watching the film, comes across as a kind but phenomenally risky move by Gerbier to put them together in that boat, although I suppose it's possible that he simply doesn't know that Jean François and Luc are brothers.

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Sloper
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#137 Post by Sloper » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:22 am

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I never thought that Jean-François knew it was St. Luc with him in the boat; his interior monologue implies otherwise, and it would make sense for the 'top man' in the Resistance to disguise his identity except with those he most trusted. When Jean-François says, 'The top of the pyramid meets its base; interesting mathematics; I must discuss it with St. Luc after the war', this might possibly be a subtle hint that he recognises his brother, but I find that a bit 'cute' and think it's much more dramatically satisfying to see it as ironic. It contributes to the sense of alienation that pervades all the relationships in the film - it's a situation where two brothers can be working side by side and not know each other, where the leader of the Resistance seems to be the person most completely detached from worldly cares, where the most heroic figures can be regarded as traitors, and where the Resistance end up killing one of their own just in case she gives them away; and of course, they think they 'know' that Mathilde would want to be gunned down, but her reaction when they encounter her on the street clearly indicates that she doesn't. But the moment in the boat is certainly open to interpretation.

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Brian C
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#138 Post by Brian C » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:25 pm

Sloper wrote:
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I never thought that Jean-François knew it was St. Luc with him in the boat; his interior monologue implies otherwise, and it would make sense for the 'top man' in the Resistance to disguise his identity except with those he most trusted. When Jean-François says, 'The top of the pyramid meets its base; interesting mathematics; I must discuss it with St. Luc after the war', this might possibly be a subtle hint that he recognises his brother, but I find that a bit 'cute' and think it's much more dramatically satisfying to see it as ironic. It contributes to the sense of alienation that pervades all the relationships in the film - it's a situation where two brothers can be working side by side and not know each other, where the leader of the Resistance seems to be the person most completely detached from worldly cares, where the most heroic figures can be regarded as traitors, and where the Resistance end up killing one of their own just in case she gives them away; and of course, they think they 'know' that Mathilde would want to be gunned down, but her reaction when they encounter her on the street clearly indicates that she doesn't. But the moment in the boat is certainly open to interpretation.
Could be, and I like your reading of it thematically, but in simple practical terms
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it's hard for me to believe that he wouldn't have been recognized. When we do see his face, he's wearing no disguise - did he take it off on his way down the ladder into the sub? He couldn't have left it in the boat. I also wouldn't describe his internal monologue as "cute" - it's his acknowledgment that, as much as he'd like to talk to his brother about all this, the timing is simply egregiously wrong to do so. It's a sign of his dedication to the cause above himself - which was questionable up to that point, I'd say, given that he's portrayed early as something of a thrill-seeker - and his willingness to deny his brother if the circumstances merit, which in turn foreshadows his eventual decision to give himself up.

(You've also omitted the first part of that quote, where he says something to the effect of, "Strange how the big chief looks just like anyone else", which implies that he did get to look at him.)

I actually think final scene with Mathilde is ambiguous, by the way, or at the least inconclusive. It's not like she tries to turn and run, after all, and no matter how mentally prepared she might have been to be gunned down, the actual realization that it's happening must come as quite a shock. The look on her face is appropriate either way, I think.

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Sloper
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#139 Post by Sloper » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:21 am

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Yes, 'cute' was the wrong word - I suppose I just feel it compromises the specifically tragic irony that I like so much in the scene, but the way you put it just now makes me think your reading may be just as valid as mine. I think what Jean-François says in the boat is that the boss is a man of 'ordinary dimensions'; it's certainly 'dimensions' on the French track, which I took as referring simply to the man's size and shape. Also, the scene is meant to be taking place at night - the big difference in the submarine is that St. Luc's face is illuminated. But still, you're right that the practicalities are a bit awkward, and looking at it again Jean-François does seem to be glancing up at his passenger's face quite a lot. So it could work either way.

And yes, you're certainly right that the moment with Mathilde is ambiguous. I do think there's a look of surprise/horror in her face when she sees the gun: the men in the car stare at her as if waiting to see how she reacts, and then her eyes suddenly widen as if she can't believe this is really happening. Maybe she is choosing not to run, or maybe she is paralysed with fear. I seem to remember there was some ambiguity in the preceding conversation where Gerbier or St. Luc had said (to Le Bison) that Mathilde would want it this way, but then privately admitted to having doubts; they say she wouldn't be able to kill herself if she wanted to, but she obviously isn't under a 'suicide watch' or anything. This is one aspect of the story that always makes me feel as though I've missed something. Anyway, it's a perfect ending whether I fully understand it or not.

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Brian C
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#140 Post by Brian C » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:10 pm

sloper wrote: I think what Jean-François says in the boat is that the boss is a man of 'ordinary dimensions'; it's certainly 'dimensions' on the French track, which I took as referring simply to the man's size and shape.
I did not realize this, but you're right, that does possibly change the meaning of what he says.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. I still think he probably knows, but watching it again, I think I'll appreciate the potential ambiguity; if nothing else it adds the possibility of potentially fatal compromise to the situation on top of the irony.

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Matt
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#141 Post by Matt » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:04 pm


JeffWang
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#142 Post by JeffWang » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:18 pm

Here's official confirmation that Studio Canal now has the rights to Army of Shadows. I'm sure we'll be seeing the other OOP Melville Criterion titles being released by Studio Canal now:

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=10474" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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MrGregoryArkadin
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#143 Post by MrGregoryArkadin » Tue May 23, 2017 10:00 am

I have a near mint blu copy of Army of Shadows available - DM me if anyone is interested.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#144 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:11 am

One of my favourite presses, Contra Mundum, is publishing a new translation of Joseph Kessel's Army of Shadows, the novel on which Melville based his movie. Apparently this is not only the first translation in 70 years, but the first edition since the movie's release.

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Jean-Luc Garbo
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#145 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:55 pm

That excerpt is quite intriguing if somewhat timely. It's good that Contra Mundum is still in business - and with recent translations of Godard and Baudelaire!

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Ribs
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#146 Post by Ribs » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:18 pm

Releasing in April

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domino harvey
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#147 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:19 pm

Well there it is, first StudioCanal re-rescue, finally!

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#148 Post by yoloswegmaster » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:21 pm

Wouldn't Lola techically be the first Studiocanal re-rescue?

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domino harvey
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#149 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:24 pm

It was never out of print from Criterion— EDIT oh, the Fassbinder, not the Demy! You’re right, good catch

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Ribs
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Re: 385 Army of Shadows

#150 Post by Ribs » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:25 pm

No more then the Tati movies were

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