Maybe instead tell them how gay it is to worship at the feet of a raging phallic symbol?davidhare wrote:they simply can't cope when someone takes their precious Dreyer or Bresson or Eisenstein and pulls them out of the ivory tower
437 Vampyr
- Mr Sausage
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
- Location: Canada
- cdnchris
- Site Admin
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
- Location: Washington
- Contact:
They're presented in the supplements in the video essay.davidhare wrote:A question about the Criterion. Have they, like MK2 presented the two scenes censored from the German print as extras, or managed to incorporate them into the final movie? I realize there are difficulties doing this as both complete scenes of censored footage are from the French print. In the first case, the hammering of the stake into Marguerite the film stock looks entirely different in image texture.
More critically in the death of the doctor in the flour mill, all his shots bar the last two are completely different takes from the German version, and in all, bar the last two, he speaks or mutters in French.
- Michael
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm
God, I'm embarrassed. You're right. That particular scene feels more fitting with Vampyr than Joan so that explains the confusion. This morning I thought about that scene for some reason and with Vampyr remaining very fresh in my mind, I thought it was odd that it didn't have that scene. Thanks for the clarification.miless wrote:are you sure you're not confusing it with The Passion of Joan of Arc?
- Felix
- Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:48 pm
- Location: A dark damp land where the men all wear skirts
This is what I thought first time round as well and the real Horror classics never usually do scare me, it takes more recognisable scenarios in which I can identify more closely with the characters to do that. But...HerrSchreck wrote:And I may be unique in that Vampyr has never been scary to me.. moody and mildly creepy in parts.
Last night I was skimming through My Metier and skipped to the bit on Vampyr where it shows the subjective eye wandering around the mansion and the weird thing is that taken out of context, it ended up far more scary than in context, very much so indeed. Not the way it is meant to be. The shadows seemed so full of menace. I have looked in films for so long to see what was inferred in Roszak's Flicker and for the first time I saw it and I felt like I could have been watching one of Max Kastle's films.
Incidentally, I agree about Epstein, how could anyone who has seen Usher not agree, but I also see similarities in La Belle et La Bete too. It has been a few years since I saw the Epstein, and I am waiting to do the double bill thing, but flicking through it the other night I remembered that commentary over the titles and found it very difficult to deal with, though I must have managed it first time round as the film blew me away (I had no expectations at all, a good place to be). All the reviews I catch seem to prefer the talk over instead of subtitles, anyone here got any thoughts? The bit where he is trying to get someone to take him to the castle and three times the voiceover repeats, Usher? Usher? Usher? Thanks but...
- Michael
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm
I'm extremely fortunate that I already own the disc but out of curiosity, I emailed Image to ask if Usher's going OOP, etc. And here's their response: "It appears this film is no longer an active title with us. Outside of Amazon or Ebay, this product is not available." I think they mean Amazon marketplace, not the store itself.Via Salvatore wrote:Epstein's Usher: where can I get it? None of online stores carries it.
- Gregor Samsa
- Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:41 am
- Hopscotch
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:30 pm
- Michael
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm
Lucky find! How much did you pay for it? Curious.Hopscotch wrote:I just found Epstein's Usher tonight in a record store that's closing soon and putting all their merch on a crazy sale. Grab it while you still can. Herr and Michael's rec's here and in the fave film of all time thread were enough for me to keep my eyes open for it. What a lucky find!
I had never heard of Epstein till HerrSchreck poured out his love for this artist all over the forum so I thought it was time to check out Usher. Very recently, I talked to my coworker during a little coffee break, I brought up Usher and the images, the music, etc cracked open the dam in my mind and kept flooding and flooding. There are so many tiny details in Usher that stick to me, that little dog that refuses to respond to the old man walking through the wintry air, the mechanical owl being shrouded in cobwebs, the eerie bridal dress flying stuck between the shut-locked mausoleum door...the artist sitting waiting for his bride, the fireplace behind him so cavernous, the look on his face forever haunting. I read some reviews and some folks have issues with the music but I love it. Actually it's playing in my mind as I'm writing this.
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
It's still probably the film that most affects me on such a deep, profound level. The expression of interior turbulence pushing the bearer into the twilight world of madness and isolation are just incredible to me. A mind overloaded by both Itself as well as Need/Obsessive-love for another (due to inner turnmoil).. with the loved-one off-put and drained by the need of the lover's turnmoil.. its just sublime. The magic in every single one of the images is just relentless. I watched it last night after not having seen it in a good 5-6 months and it just knocks me out every time. It seems that in the 1920's Carl Dreyer profoundly affected by his film experiences in France; after seeing Potemkin-- which completely overwhelmed and cast a spell on him-- he went and made a film under the huge sense of inspiration gleaned from Eisensteins film: Joan of Arc, a film completely atypical not only in the rest of the Whole of Cinema, but for Dreye's canon as well. The spell wore off, and never again would he use such rapid cutting in his work.
My theory is he saw Epstein's Usher, and fell under the same electrified spell. Epstein so profoundly captures in every frame of his film this sense of there being something BETWEEN the lens/camera, and the scenes he is photographing. That something is the mood of not just Poe but a huge sense of a human being posessed by profound melancholia, sleepwalking thru an autumnal fog of depression-- an all-posessing gloominess really-- and the photography of Usher is quite special because of it. The "walk" that Roderick sends his friend on around the grounds, so he can be alone to paint, is so deeply & profoundly photographed to capture "the atmosphere of insufferable gloom"... the foggy still waters around the decrepit decaying mansion, the dead looking trees, the grey haze, the disposessed dog that runs the other way (one of my favorite shots ever, anywhere, period); the montage of Roderick expressing his frayed mental state by playing the guitar, hands touching the strings interspersed with swamps, rainy skies, fog, drifting water surfaces; the wind blowing thru the mansion, with all its candles and dead leaves along the floor, with roaming camera like the spirits of Ushers buried ancestors; the funeral procession (my god the superimpositions with the turning candles and drifting dead leaves, the loping pounding walk of the pallbearers and Roderick staring up at the dead treetops); Rodering crying while reading the old text of Magnetism next to his wife's corpse; and of course the utter confidence of Roderick at the end, completely unhinged while being read to with a spaced out smile on his face rocking back & forth on his chair, absolutely certain that his wife will rise again.
I'm convinced Dreyer saw this film and was hugely moved and impressed by his peer. He's stated on occassions what a wonderful "film laboratory" of creation and invention Paris was in the 20's and how thrilled he was to feel a part of it. Vampyr to me feels very much like his answer to Usher.. using the light leak in the camera, the mists and fog and the abandoned chateau, (not to mention the funerary procession of Gray which also catches him staring up from his coffin at the dead treetops just like Roderick while bearing his wife), the twilight world between death and life, etc.. the eerie disembodied moving camera-- it screams "Usher" to me.
And pardon my favoritism, but I think Vampyr falls short of the Epstein film, as much as I love Dreyer's film and the boldness-- and brave nature-- of it.
And I love the All-Day disc, I got over the narration by the second or third viewing, and the medieval music in the film is probably the most appropriate marriage of music and silent film I've ever heard!
What really surprises me is that there's no release of this film in France on dvd! (and Epstein in general!)
My theory is he saw Epstein's Usher, and fell under the same electrified spell. Epstein so profoundly captures in every frame of his film this sense of there being something BETWEEN the lens/camera, and the scenes he is photographing. That something is the mood of not just Poe but a huge sense of a human being posessed by profound melancholia, sleepwalking thru an autumnal fog of depression-- an all-posessing gloominess really-- and the photography of Usher is quite special because of it. The "walk" that Roderick sends his friend on around the grounds, so he can be alone to paint, is so deeply & profoundly photographed to capture "the atmosphere of insufferable gloom"... the foggy still waters around the decrepit decaying mansion, the dead looking trees, the grey haze, the disposessed dog that runs the other way (one of my favorite shots ever, anywhere, period); the montage of Roderick expressing his frayed mental state by playing the guitar, hands touching the strings interspersed with swamps, rainy skies, fog, drifting water surfaces; the wind blowing thru the mansion, with all its candles and dead leaves along the floor, with roaming camera like the spirits of Ushers buried ancestors; the funeral procession (my god the superimpositions with the turning candles and drifting dead leaves, the loping pounding walk of the pallbearers and Roderick staring up at the dead treetops); Rodering crying while reading the old text of Magnetism next to his wife's corpse; and of course the utter confidence of Roderick at the end, completely unhinged while being read to with a spaced out smile on his face rocking back & forth on his chair, absolutely certain that his wife will rise again.
I'm convinced Dreyer saw this film and was hugely moved and impressed by his peer. He's stated on occassions what a wonderful "film laboratory" of creation and invention Paris was in the 20's and how thrilled he was to feel a part of it. Vampyr to me feels very much like his answer to Usher.. using the light leak in the camera, the mists and fog and the abandoned chateau, (not to mention the funerary procession of Gray which also catches him staring up from his coffin at the dead treetops just like Roderick while bearing his wife), the twilight world between death and life, etc.. the eerie disembodied moving camera-- it screams "Usher" to me.
And pardon my favoritism, but I think Vampyr falls short of the Epstein film, as much as I love Dreyer's film and the boldness-- and brave nature-- of it.
And I love the All-Day disc, I got over the narration by the second or third viewing, and the medieval music in the film is probably the most appropriate marriage of music and silent film I've ever heard!
What really surprises me is that there's no release of this film in France on dvd! (and Epstein in general!)
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Got my copy today and watched the film right away. It's the first time I've seen it "properly" and I'm still digesting it. I'd call it eerie and haunting (and very melancholic) rather than terrifying although it does have individual moments or scenes that did send a chill down my spine, most notably the famous "coffin sequence" and the sinister smile on Leone's face as her sister recoils in terror. Superb use of shadow and light, and a great score by Wolfgang Zeller that adds to the constant feeling of dread. The film didn't quite have the same devastating impact that Passion of Joan of Arc had on first viewing but I suspect that could change after I've seen it a few more times.
I haven't watched any of the extras yet but I did read the booklet and found LeFanu's and Newman's contributions informative and illuminating, and look forward to reading the script and Camilla. Love the package design - one of Criterion's best.
I haven't watched any of the extras yet but I did read the booklet and found LeFanu's and Newman's contributions informative and illuminating, and look forward to reading the script and Camilla. Love the package design - one of Criterion's best.
- Hopscotch
- Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:30 pm
About $20. I think it would have been $30. Checking Amazon right now I see they've got some copies back in stock for $22 + shipping, so it wasn't a crazy great deal, but all signs point to this going out of print (other copies from elsewhere are selling for $30 to $50 already).Michael wrote:Lucky find! How much did you pay for it? Curious.
- Felix
- Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:48 pm
- Location: A dark damp land where the men all wear skirts
I am not so sure as it is now showing as 2 to 4 weeks delivery which may mean it is gone from stock (hopefully readers of this forum...). It is not showing any signs of disappearing from the All Day website though so there is no excuse for anyone not getting a copy. It will go directly to the label as well, AND there is a nice looking Edgar Ulmer box there at a good price.Hopscotch wrote: Checking Amazon right now I see they've got some copies back in stock for $22 + shipping, so it wasn't a crazy great deal, but all signs point to this going out of print (other copies from elsewhere are selling for $30 to $50 already).
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
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- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:18 pm
Re: 437 Vampyr
This is a technical question about the DVD release. I noticed two sound anomalies (where the sound abruptly cuts off), and wonder if my disc is either defective, or if this is present in all discs.
First starts around 41:47 with the music abruptly stopping just after the second doorbell ring, and then resuming 5 seconds later.
Second one occurs around 52:53 and lasts until 53:17. The music stops, starts, and then stops. This takes place just after the scuffle with the doctor and lasts until the nurse is heard praying. I also tried the disc on other dvd players and received the same result.
I wonder if complete and prolonged silence was really part of the film. The music soundtrack is usually present in the background (sometimes toned down to the point it's hardly noticeable), and in cases where music is absent; the bare ambient sounds, or dialogue always takes its place, never this complete silence for such a duration.
Coincidentally, the other criterion purchase I made with this one also has an issue, this relating to a picture drop. That observation is on the 386: "Sansho the Bailiff" thread. Please, if someone would take the time to reply, it will be greatly appreciated.
First starts around 41:47 with the music abruptly stopping just after the second doorbell ring, and then resuming 5 seconds later.
Second one occurs around 52:53 and lasts until 53:17. The music stops, starts, and then stops. This takes place just after the scuffle with the doctor and lasts until the nurse is heard praying. I also tried the disc on other dvd players and received the same result.
I wonder if complete and prolonged silence was really part of the film. The music soundtrack is usually present in the background (sometimes toned down to the point it's hardly noticeable), and in cases where music is absent; the bare ambient sounds, or dialogue always takes its place, never this complete silence for such a duration.
Coincidentally, the other criterion purchase I made with this one also has an issue, this relating to a picture drop. That observation is on the 386: "Sansho the Bailiff" thread. Please, if someone would take the time to reply, it will be greatly appreciated.
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- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am
Re: 437 Vampyr
Is the French version still up for restoration and will Criterion consider releasing it at some point? It seems a shame to see the uncensored version rendered obscure in favour of the neutered German version
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- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am
Re: 437 Vampyr
Oh, and this slight glitch appears on the UK DVD during the scene where the vampire attack is seen from the house. Is it on the Criterion?
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 437 Vampyr
Now I know what Bunel must have felt like.
SpoilerShow
I just watched this, first Dreyer, and I was along with it until his soul split. My main problem is to what purpose that detour had. There seems to be no reason for it. At the very least the other oddities seemed to have a reason for being in the movie but I can't understand this filler. I'm fin with his 'soul' splitting off. He returns after all, but what for the third body? Why is it being taken by the villains to be buried? Why is that the one thread to go no where and literally puff off? I really don't know what to take of the movie almost entirely because of that bit. It seems good, but why the coffin? I even immediately went to the Commentary to see if there was purpose to this besides great camera work. The Camera was all the commentator spoke of! I don't know if I should hate the thing or call it great. It's walking a fine line. I'm sure if I could just find some purpose beyond being weird I would like the film, but for now it is in limbo.
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- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am
Re: 437 Vampyr
Seriously? That's the part you had trouble with? As far as I'm concerned, everything that comes before only exists to justify filming that set piece.
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 437 Vampyr
How is it justified though? It was a great moment on a technical and even atmospheric level, but seemed to mean nothing in context. I just can't make an opinion on it with out knowing the purpose of that detour.
- Sloper
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:06 pm
Re: 437 Vampyr
This is a film that operates on dream logic, so trying to work out what everything 'means' is probably misguided - I'm also amazed, though, that you had trouble seeing the purpose of that scene, which I believe has always been the most celebrated part of the film, when the rest of it is if anything far less easy to interpret rationally. If you do want to 'understand' it, though, you might want to consider the film as a meditation on mortality, on the fear of the great, uncanny 'unknown' that is death. Consider, for example, that Allan wakes up just before his dream-self is to be buried, and that as soon as he does wake up he goes and
Vampires often serve as a kind of locus for fears about death - think of Nosferatu - and you could see this as a story about the struggle to overcome those fears (that's a banal and simplistic interpretation, but you get the idea).
To some extent I sympathise with your confusion, but you have to bear in mind that Dreyer wasn't interested in telling an ordinary vampire story - he was exploring some quite profound themes, in a highly experimental (and I would say very alienating, even by Dreyer's standards) style. Maybe not the best Dreyer to start with!
SpoilerShow
helps to stake the vampire.
To some extent I sympathise with your confusion, but you have to bear in mind that Dreyer wasn't interested in telling an ordinary vampire story - he was exploring some quite profound themes, in a highly experimental (and I would say very alienating, even by Dreyer's standards) style. Maybe not the best Dreyer to start with!
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: 437 Vampyr
You're definitely right on the last sentence. Maybe if I treat like Night on Earth or a serial I'll like it better. If any thing that bit makes for a great short film. Just not entirely sure why it was included. Thinking of it as one in a series of unrelated adventures on mortality does make the pill easier to swallow and I should say that outside of this confusion on purpose I very much enjoyed the film, Yeah, episodes may make me feel better about the movie.