Kino: The Films of Sergei Paradjanov

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Gigi M. · #1 Post by **Gigi M.** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:32 pm

Kino is releasing on February 5, 2008 The Films of Sergei Paradjanov:

Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors
The Color of Pomegranates
The Legend of Suram Fortress
Ashik Kerib - New Transfer

MichaelB · #2 Post by **MichaelB** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:41 pm

Gigi M. wrote:Ashik Kerib - New Transfer

Hmmm... given Kino's established links with Ruscico and the excellence of the latter's transfer, I'm guessing this "new transfer" was probably made several years ago and is only "new" to the US market.

But it's a staggering improvement on the previous Kino edition, so that's hardly a complaint - when I surveyed all current Paradjanov DVDs for Sight & Sound earlier, Ruscico's Ashik Kerib was comfortably the winner. Or at least the original PAL version was.

Tommaso · #3 Post by **Tommaso** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:53 pm

Four discs..hmmm.... so an individual disc for "Surami", too. This gives me a little hope that they abandoned their old transfer as well, so that we now might get the Ruscico version (excellent) but hopefully without that UNBEARABLE Russian voice-over that makes the Ruscico unwatchable. AND: they need to release these discs individually of course, as any long-time Paradjanov fan will certainly already have the other films from FsF and the original Ruscico "Ashik". Fingers crossed!

MichaelB · #4 Post by **MichaelB** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:56 pm

Tommaso wrote:This gives me a little hope that they abandoned their old transfer as well, so that we now might get the Ruscico version (excellent) but hopefully without that UNBEARABLE Russian voice-over that makes the Ruscico unwatchable. AND: they need to release these discs individually of course, as any long-time Paradjanov fan will certainly already have the other films from FsF and the original Ruscico "Ashik". Fingers crossed!

Yes, that's a really baffling issue with the Ruscico - in all other respects it's clearly superior to the Kino, but the soundtrack ruins it.

It's especially inexplicable when you consider (a) that the Kino does have the correct soundtrack (so it's clearly available), and (b) that Ashik Kerib got it completely right.

Tommaso · #5 Post by **Tommaso** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:25 am

MichaelB wrote:It's especially inexplicable when you consider (a) that the Kino does have the correct soundtrack (so it's clearly available), and (b) that Ashik Kerib got it completely right.

I think this was discussed somewhere here some time ago. Someone stated that apparently it was/is normal for the Russians to have voice-overs in their cinemas instead of subs or dubbed versions. And as the Ruscico "Surami" is one of their older discs, they probably simply put a theatrical print onto disc, and then listened to the international complaints before their release of "Ashik" and did it better with that disc (although it didn't stop them from again doing a 5.1. up-mix without the original soundtrack here).

I always hoped that Ruscico would issue a corrected version of "Surami" like they did with some of their Tarkovskys, but apparently this disc didn't sell that well, or Paradjanov doesn't have the same amount of dedicated international lobbyists. So, Kino HAVE to get it right this time (at least they should abandon the ingrained yellow subs of their original release), as contrary to my hopes, FsF don't seem to have dvd releases of "Surami" and "Ashik" on their schedule.

MichaelB · #6 Post by **MichaelB** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:40 am

Tommaso wrote:I think this was discussed somewhere here some time ago. Someone stated that apparently it was/is normal for the Russians to have voice-overs in their cinemas instead of subs or dubbed versions. And as the Ruscico "Surami" is one of their older discs, they probably simply put a theatrical print onto disc, and then listened to the international complaints before their release of "Ashik" and did it better with that disc

If I remember rightly, both discs were released simultaneously (they certainly arrived simultaneously as part of my subscription). And while it's not unknown for Ruscico discs to have voiceover options (there's even a truly deranged one for Kozintsev's Hamlet offering an English voiceover - worth a listen for a laugh, especially as the guy clearly isn't a native speaker, but bewilderingly pointless otherwise), I think this is the only one that doesn't offer the original language.

(although it didn't stop them from again doing a 5.1. up-mix without the original soundtrack here).

True, but I actually prefer the 5.1 version. Since the soundtrack consists of pretty much wall-to-wall music, interspersed with occasional non-diegetic voiceover, I find that the wider soundstage helps in a way that it emphatically didn't with the 5.1 Stalker.

Tommaso · #7 Post by **Tommaso** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:29 am

MichaelB wrote:True, but I actually prefer the 5.1 version. Since the soundtrack consists of pretty much wall-to-wall music, interspersed with occasional non-diegetic voiceover, I find that the wider soundstage helps in a way that it emphatically didn't with the 5.1 Stalker.

Yes, it didn't bother me much either, though as I don't have a surround system, I have the feeling that there seems to be too much of what sounds like artificial reverb on the music now, probably because the 'ambience' back channels are now also coming from the front on my stereo system. I never listened to the 5.1. "Stalker", but with "Solaris" (which also doesn't have the original mono, at least on the AE clone of the Ruscico), I actually have to admit that I was quite surprised how good it worked. Still, one shouldn't meddle with directors of that stature, or at least provide the original version as well.

MichaelB · #8 Post by **MichaelB** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:39 am

The shocking thing about the 5.1 soundtrack of Stalker was that the changes went well beyond merely widening the soundstage - for instance, the three-minute scene of the trio on the trolley is accompanied merely by electronically enhanced clanking sounds in the original, whereas additional music has been added to the 5.1 version, not to the scene's advantage.

This isn't an issue with Ashik Kerib as there are no sound effects that I can recall. I'd prefer them to have added the mono original for purists (in fact, I'd prefer this across the board), but in this particular case, almost uniquely for Ruscico, I actually do prefer the 5.1 version. (I ran the Kino and Ruscico side by side when vetting the DVDs for Sight & Sound).

Lino · #9 Post by **Lino** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:52 am

Details and cover artwork for the upcoming Paradjanov Kino discs are now up on Amazon:

Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors:

SPECIAL FEATURES: Documentary: Andrei Tarkovsky and Sergei Paradjanov (2003, 40 min.) - Featurette: Songs of the Ukraine (1985, 8 min.) - Paradjanov Photo Album - Stills Gallery - Cast & Crew Filmographies - Trailers IN UKRAINIAN with optional ENGLISH, FRENCH or SPANISH subtitles - Dolby Digital 5.1

The Legend of Suram Fortress

SPECIAL FEATURES - Interview with Svetlana Scherbatyuk, the wife of Sergei Paradjanov (26 min.) - Documentary: Actress Veriko Andzhaparidze (9 min.) - Featurette: The Architecture of Ancient Georgia (6 min.) - Photo Album - Cast and Crew Filmographies - Trailers - DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 - In Georgian with optional ENGLISH, FRENCH or SPANISH subtitles.

Ashik Kerib

SPECIAL FEATURES - Documentary: Sergei Paradjonov (24 min.) - Documentary: Mikhail Lermontov (12 min.) - Featurette: The Minstrel's Song (5 min.) - Biography of Mikhail Lermontov - Cast and Crew Filmographies - Photo Album - Trailers DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1

No info about The Color of Pomegranates. Maybe we're getting the old disc?

MichaelB · #10 Post by **MichaelB** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:56 am

Specs for the last two strongly suggest Ruscico clones - which means PAL-NTSC conversions. But Surami Fortress may be worth it if they offer unadulterated Georgian sound.

Tommaso · #11 Post by **Tommaso** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:12 pm

Stone dropping loudly from my heart, and much in agreement generally, of course. If "Surami" is indeed in Georgian and available on its own, I'm prepared to gladly accept the NTSC conversion is this case. Even if the subs should remain yellow (which I doubt, if that is a straight Ruscico clone).

HerrSchreck wrote:The Teshigihara box is a bitch man. Same w stuff like the Varda, etc.

It has just happened again, and this time it makes me REALLY angry, considering that at least two of them will be clearly inferior to the existing versions (for the lack of MoCs booklets alone). Hell, why these films (i.e. "Scandal" and "The Idiot") and no "Sanshiro Sugata"?!
Sorry, wrong part of the forum, but I just have to vent my anger a little

miless · #12 Post by **miless** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:07 am

the Segei Paradjanov set is now up

it looks as if it has no product description (other than a quote from Godard), Pomegranates has no photo or page yet (they use the title and link for Shadows)... although Suram and Ashik Kerib are both labeled as "remastered" (and, of course, The Color of Pomegranates is not... which is frustrating that they did not include both versions)

I'm still totally getting this, because it's, like, gunna be awesome. (I mean I can finally see Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors)

Tommaso · #13 Post by **Tommaso** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:26 am

Looks like some updating has happened, though there's still no image for "Pomegranates". I like THIS extra on "Forgotten Ancestors":

Documentary: Andrei Tarkovsky and Sergei Paradjanov (2003, 40 min.)

Does anyone know it? Sounds most intriguing...

Some brief overview (not really a review)of the forthcoming Pabst and Wiene can be found now at SilentEra, Orlac and Secrets.

"Orlac" seems to have some nice supplements. But both have English titles.

MichaelB · #14 Post by **MichaelB** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:33 am

miless wrote:the Segei Paradjanov set is now up

it looks as if it has no product description (other than a quote from Godard), Pomegranates has no photo or page yet (they use the title and link for Shadows)... although Suram and Ashik Kerib are both labeled as "remastered" (and, of course, The Color of Pomegranates is not... which is frustrating that they did not include both versions)

They're still claiming that Shadows is both 2.35:1 and "a new widescreen transfer", which is a tad worrying.

I've seen this on the big screen in both Britain and France (i.e. two distinct prints), and have three video versions (taped Channel 4 broadcast, Connoisseur VHS, Films Sans Frontieres DVD), and it was in 4:3 every time. So either five separate outlets have got it identically wrong, or Kino has!

So let's hope it's merely a typo.

Kirkinson · #15 Post by **Kirkinson** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:07 am

MichaelB wrote:They're still claiming that Shadows is both 2.35:1 and "a new widescreen transfer", which is a tad worrying.

I've seen this on the big screen in both Britain and France (i.e. two distinct prints), and have three video versions (taped Channel 4 broadcast, Connoisseur VHS, Films Sans Frontieres DVD), and it was in 4:3 every time. So either five separate outlets have got it identically wrong, or Kino has!

So let's hope it's merely a typo.

The information in the lower "Synopsis" section says as much, but the info at the top of the page says "Aspect Ratio: 1.33:1." It looks like someone hastily copied and pasted text from the old press release into the synopsis box, so the upper section is probably (hopefully) correct.

J Wilson · #16 Post by **J Wilson** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:42 pm

The jacket copy (I have a copy in hand) also reads 1.33: 1. Haven't had a chance to look at the disc though.

denti alligator · #17 Post by **denti alligator** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:37 pm

Having never seen a Paradjanov film, I'm anxious to get this set. Am I to understand that these will be the best available transfers?

MichaelB · #18 Post by **MichaelB** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:11 pm

denti alligator wrote:Having never seen a Paradjanov film, I'm anxious to get this set. Am I to understand that these will be the best available transfers?

No way of telling till they're released.

The specs of Ashik Kerib and Legend of the Suram Fortress suggest that they'll almost certainly be sourced from the Ruscico transfers. If so, that's bad news, as they'll be NTSC standards conversions - you'll be better off ordering the PAL originals from Ruscico.

However, Kino has hinted that they're trying to sort out the sound problem on Suram Fortress (the Ruscico only offers a version with an obtrusive Russian voiceover). If they succeed, then the Ruscico PAL will be best for picture but the Kino will certainly be best for sound - and given the unsatisfactory nature of the Ruscico soundtrack, I'd favour the Kino even with an NTSC standards conversion.

As for the other two, Films Sans Frontieres does a very good (bordering on excellent) Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors, and a mediocre Colour of Pomegranates - but said mediocrity may be unavoidable when it comes to sourcing materials for the longer cut. There's a far superior Japanese edition of Pomegranates, but it's the shorter Soviet-approved version.

Put it like this: I'm pretty happy with my DVDs of Ashik Kerib (Ruscico PAL) and Shadows of our Forgotten Ancestors (Films Sans Frontieres PAL), and would be surprised if the Kino offered any noticeable improvements. On the other hand, all existing editions of Pomegranates and Suram Fortress are badly flawed, so if Kino has come up with a plausible advance, their new discs will be well worth taking seriously.

But I won't know till I've seen them.

Adam · #19 Post by **Adam** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:16 pm

Just a heads up - The Los Angeles County Museum of Art is showing the Paradjanov films in later February. If you are in LA, seeing them on the big screen is really the thing to do. www.lacma.org

J Wilson · #20 Post by **J Wilson** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:54 pm

The Kino Suram Fortress disc offers the option of either the original Georgian soundtrack in mono, or the Russian 5.1 track. A prefatory card before the film mentions the loss of the original elements and that while every attempt was made to locate a clean original soundtrack, there are still four minutes that retain Russian voiceover. Not having seen any other version of the film, is this different from previous editions?

jsteffe · #21 Post by **jsteffe** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:46 am

J Wilson wrote:The Kino Suram Fortress disc offers the option of either the original Georgian soundtrack in mono, or the Russian 5.1 track. A prefatory card before the film mentions the loss of the original elements and that while every attempt was made to locate a clean original soundtrack, there are still four minutes that retain Russian voiceover. Not having seen any other version of the film, is this different from previous editions?

Yes--the Ruscico disc didn't offer the unadulterated Georgian-language soundtrack at all, only the intrusive Russian voice-over translation. The old Kino disc of SURAM, which is based on a fairly old video transfer, actually has the Georgian soundtrack in full. But that transfer doesn't look nearly as nice as the Ruscico transfer, which Kino is licensing for the new version.

Considering Paradjanov's remarkable visual style, if I had to choose between the inferior image of the old Kino SURAM disc and the slightly compromised sountrack on the new disc, I'd take the (presumably) better-looking transfer of the new Kino version, and live with the four minutes of Russian overdubbing.

The Russian track on the Ruscico disc hurts the film badly enough that I wouldn't consider it a reasonable option.

The Kino's old transfer of ASHIK KERIB, which I belive they licensed from the now-defunct International Film Exchange, is really murky and marred by video-generated titles obscuring the elegant Georgian lettering of the original title cards. Assuming their new transfer is the same as that already on the Ruscico disc, this should also be a significant improvement. (Though Ruscico's transfer was originally in PAL, so Kino's disc is probably a no-frills PAL-NTSC conversion.)

MichaelB · #22 Post by **MichaelB** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:15 am

jsteffe wrote:Yes--the Ruscico disc didn't offer the unadulterated Georgian-language soundtrack at all, only the intrusive Russian voice-over translation. The old Kino disc of SURAM, which is based on a fairly old video transfer, actually has the Georgian soundtrack in full. But that transfer doesn't look nearly as nice as the Ruscico transfer, which Kino is licensing for the new version.

Well, unless it's an absolute disaster visually (unlikely, as the Ruscico transfer certainly looked fine), it seems pretty clear that the Kino Suram Fortress may well be the most satisfying version available worldwide.

miless · #23 Post by **miless** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:22 am

I still don't understand why they didn't just replace the missing 4 minutes with the soundtrack that was on their previous version. Sure, it wouldn't be as clean, but it seems to be a better alternative to replacing it with the Russian track. Or was the 4 minutes missing from the first release, too?

MichaelB · #24 Post by **MichaelB** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:30 am

miless wrote:I still don't understand why they didn't just replace the missing 4 minutes with the soundtrack that was on their previous version. Sure, it wouldn't be as clean, but it seems to be a better alternative to replacing it with the Russian track. Or was the 4 minutes missing from the first release, too?

They'd have to adjust the speed, given that the first Kino was pure NTSC and the second is almost certainly a PAL-NTSC conversion.

But that should have been technically possible - in fact, I'd argue that this is easier with this film than with most others, since absolutely perfect synchronisation to the image isn't completely essential (if I remember rightly, there's no diegetic sound at all - it's effectively a silent film with music and voiceover dialogue).

J Wilson · #25 Post by **J Wilson** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:02 am

This is what the pre-film text states:

"Due to a fire in the Georgian film archive in Tbilisi, some sections of the original Georgian soundtrack...were lost or destroyed. To replace the missing audio, an internegative was employed, but this element was wedded to a soundtrack that laid a Russian-language voice-over on top of the Georgian.

For this reason, brief sections (4 minutes total) of the original Georgian soundtrack in this presentation...are covered with a Russian voice-over."