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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:21 am 
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Location: Worthing
Tribe wrote:
As much as I like the attempt at a reconstruction, I can't watch that opening sequence without hearing that Mancini score, whether it's there or not. That's how I grew accustomed to watching it.

I agree - it may not have been part of Welles' original plan, but it just sounds "wrong" to me without the music.

For similar reasons I personally prefer the "Soviet" cuts of Andrei Rublev and The Colour of Pomegranates, as they're the versions I grew up with. I'm glad to have seen the alternative versions but, as with Touch of Evil, it's by no means clear-cut whether they're artistically superior. And in the case of Rublev in particular the shorter cut contains definite editorial improvements that Tarkovsky himself opted to make.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:25 pm
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Sounds 'wrong' here too for the same reasons, though plainly it isn't - I can see the artistic intent.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:13 am 
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matrixschmatrix wrote:
In the Bogdonovich interview, Welles said that one hadn't been changed much- I think he said the major alterations were a shitty score they'd put on and a tour de force funhouse sequence they'd cut out.

Welles hated the score the most, but SHANGHAI suffered from significant reworking. Welles was forced to re-shoot quite a few scenes simply because Harry Cohn wanted more glamor close-ups of Rita Hayworth, so there are much more questionable process shots done in the studio than there should be. Having read through the cutting continuity for the film as assembled prior to the re-shoots and re-editing, it is clear that Welles' initial cut was a lot more coherent and interesting. Amazingly, numerous transition scenes that clarified the film's actions were eliminated (probably amounting to less than 5 or 6 minutes of screentime). Major set-pieces were bungled: Welles originally handled the climb up the mountain in Acapulco as a series of long tracking shots in which various tourists weave in and out of the frame all discussing money or lack thereof as Grisby tells O'Hara of his plan. The current scene is an awkward mess of original footage interrupted by poorly done process shot inserts with the interesting tourist subtext wiped out. So many important expository scenes were eliminated that Welles had to write a first-person narration to cover all the gaps (his original cut did not feature O'Hara as a narrator).

Drucker wrote:
Though not on topic exactly, why ISN'T there a cult around lost Shanghai footage? Wasn't the original cut 2.5 hours? Or was that all erased/destroyed like...during filming?

Yes, the original edit and footage are long gone.

Back on topic, I would say that TOUCH OF EVIL is really the film that wasn't changed that much from what Welles wanted. We may question the authenticity of the sound mix or the changes in Mancini's score (Welles liked this score by the way), but the film is not missing 30 or more minutes like SHANGHAI and the re-shoots not done by Welles amount to less than five minutes (in the reconstruction version). The story arc and all the main set-pieces are what Welles intended. Also, I might add, if there was a "royally screwed" version, it was the one screened for Welles, which apparently suffered from a number of continuity issues. Welles addressed these and those problems, for the most part, were fixed for the preview version.

While I agree that the reconstruction was not an attempt to restore a "Director's Cut", I suspect that if we were able to compare it to a pure Welles edit we wouldn't see significant differences.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC
I never got used to the previous cuts, just the 1998 reconstruction, so I never had the jarring experience that is almost inevitable for a change that major. If anything, the older versions became jarring for me - music's not bad at all, but it really feels like someone plastered all this extra shit (credits and music) on top of a DAMN fine opening sequence. In other words, I can enjoy the Mancini score for the music itself, but it really diminishes everything that's accomplished in that tracking shot.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:00 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:53 pm
Location: Estonia
Screenshots from reconstructed version, 1.37:1:

http://eurekavideo.co.uk/nick/TouchOfEv ... _01-24.jpg
http://eurekavideo.co.uk/nick/TouchOfEv ... 3_01-9.jpg
http://eurekavideo.co.uk/nick/TouchOfEv ... _01-27.jpg
http://eurekavideo.co.uk/nick/TouchOfEv ... 3_1-28.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:31 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Finland
Those screenshots looks a bit odd, hopefully not the final look of the film. Looks like been through somekind of filter.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:46 pm
The anomaly looks very much like Universal's Psycho.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:47 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Finland
Those screenshots look like they've been converted to lower colours from the original, like 32bit palette to 256 palette. Especially here. I didn't see anything like that in Psycho.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:28 am 
not perpee
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
Correction. They were not BD grabs. They were taken quickly from MPEGStreamClip.

Will post BD grabs in a couple of weeks!


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:33 am 
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Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
You'd better, Jarpie will not stand for anything but the best.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:48 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Finland
peerpee wrote:
Correction. They were not BD grabs. They were taken quickly from MPEGStreamClip.

Will post BD grabs in a couple of weeks!

Ah, thanks for the correction. Should always trust in MoC :P.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:59 pm
Location: Cheltenham, England
Full specs confirmed:

Quote:
LIMITED EDITION 2 x BLU-RAY ONLY

• New high-definition masters of five variants of the film: the 1958 Theatrical Version in both 1.37:1 and 1.85:1, the 1958 Preview Version in 1.85:1, and the 1998 Reconstructed Version in 1.37:1 and 1.85:1
• 4 x audio commentaries, featuring: restoration producer Rick Schmidlin; actors Charlton Heston & Janet Leigh, with Schmidlin; critic F. X. Feeney; and Welles scholars James Naremore & Jonathan Rosenbaum
• The original theatrical trailer, which includes alternate footage
• Bringing Evil to Life + Evil Lost and Found – two video pieces [21:00 + 18:00]
• Optional English SDH subtitles on all versions of the film
• A 56-page booklet featuring essays by Orson Welles, François Truffaut, André Bazin, and Terry Comito; interview excerpts with Welles; a timeline of the film’s history; and extensive notes on the film’s versions and ratios


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:46 pm
four commentaries! Gosh! Looks like two are from the Universal DVD and the other two are new!


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:20 pm
Location: NWT, Canada
andyli wrote:
four commentaries! Gosh! Looks like two are from the Universal DVD and the other two are new!

Nope, the Universal had the same four commentaries.

Preview Version:
- Charlton Heston, Janet Leigh and Rick Schmidlin
- Jonathan Rosenbaum and James Naremore

Restored Version:
- Rick Schmidlin

Theatrical Version:
- F.X. Feeney


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm
Honestly, the US Universal package was so exhaustive and excellent that it's hard to begrudge MoC not bettering it in terms of extras- particularly when I would buy this one bare-bones.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
Re-reading the old thread about Touch of Evil's release with all three versions...it seems that the only problem people had was with the aspect ratios.
The commentaries are fantastic...I've only listened to 2 of them, but they are incredibly informative (especially showing which scenes Welles didn't shoot...some of which aren't as obvious).


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
All 4 commentaries are excellent, listened to them back to back pretty recently. The Schmidlin solo commentary is the best, but I still think it should be listened to last, as it was recorded after the deaths of Heston and Leigh, and a lot more thought on everything in hindsight.

The laserdisc-recorded Heston/Leigh/Schmidlin commentary (which was done when the restoration was finished but not sure if it was actually released on LD) is also good, and should be heard before the solo track.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:09 am 
wax on; wax off
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Chico, CA
Dear Peerpee,

I understand from the Repo Man thread that HMV will offer an MOC 'Touch of Evil' Steelbook. Likely an exclusive offer, I want to check whether this will made available directly via Eureka as well.

Seems to be very difficult to comprehend in that thread, so I hope the above query is clear enough.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:57 am 
not perpee
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm
The only MoC product that will be exclusive to a particular retailer is the TOUCH OF EVIL Steelbook, which will be an HMV exclusive.

"HMV exclusive" unfortunately means that it won't be available from anywhere else.

My hope is that no future MoC products are made exclusive to a particular retailer, and if they are, there will be a time limit on that exclusivity.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:19 am 
wax on; wax off
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Chico, CA
Thanks, Chief. Just wanted to confirm.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:16 am
Location: http://www.eldiabolik.com
I've been wondering about this for a while, can someone who buys steelbooks enlighten me on why they are so desirable? I just don't see the attraction, but I'm genuinely interested why people want to them.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:18 am 
wax on; wax off
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm
Location: Chico, CA
Duncan Hopper wrote:
I've been wondering about this for a while, can someone who buys steelbooks enlighten me on why they are so desirable? I just don't see the attraction, but I'm genuinely interested why people want to them.

Heavy handling. I keep my blu-rays and good proportion of my AV equipment next to my half-pipe skate ramp. Stuff takes a beating there. I really should move the stuff, but the rest of the cage is taken up with several live animals going through a rough teething phase.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:16 am
Location: http://www.eldiabolik.com
Anyone who just lives in a normal house with DVDs on a shelf? Without teething animals and half-pipes?


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:10 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Duncan Hopper wrote:
Anyone who just lives in a normal house with DVDs on a shelf? Without teething animals and half-pipes?

Some people like collector's edition packaging, which steelbooks would be classified as. As well, there are some steelbooks that become very valuable because of their rarity, but I think this is less common now because more volume is produced for newer ones.

And some people just think they look cool, which I'll admit I do, but I'm also a pragmatist, which is why I can only bring myself to buy them when they're similarly priced to the regular edition.


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 Post subject: Re: BD 25 Touch of Evil
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT
I only bought Metropolis in a steelbook because it seemed oddly fitting in that instance, but it would seem weird to me to have Touch of Evil that way. Silent Running being another sci-fi, the steelbook seems fitting again. I don't know what I'll do going forward. Is Repo Man enough of a sci-fi to be forever encased on my shelf in steel? Will TLB in a metal case mimic the sleek exterior of a '55 Chevy? Part of me wishes I did not have to answer these kinds of questions.


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