Criterion and Dual Format

[MoonlitKnight]

Like liam, my DVD library also numbered into the thousands by the time Blu-ray came about, so I'm too far in it to turn back now, even though I DO own a Blu-ray player. A lot of it is still the size discrepancy between the DVD and Blu cases. My inner Adrian Monk can't come to terms with integrating the two (well, OK, I DID break down and put my "Frances Ha" and "King of the Hill" combo packs in with my other Baumbach and Soderbergh films, respectively). But at the end of the day, having the absolute highest quality picture and sound remain secondary to the film's actual content for me. I'm still only buying my absolute all-time favorite films on Blu (nearly all of which I already owned on DVD -- making the DVD copies in my "Nashville" and "A Hard Day's Night" combo packs particularly redundant )... and will continue to do so until 'DVD-only' is no longer an option. In either format, the films are going to outlast my own actual life anyway.

[HistoryProf]

The prospect of spending huge sums of money upgrading my 1000+ dvd collection is also daunting, to say the least.

So don't do it. Most of my collection remains firmly SD, and most of that isn't upgradeable anyway.

This. I have approximately 1250 titles in my collection - probably 2/3 are regular DVDs, maybe 70%. I also have over 400 spine #s from Criterion, and it's pretty evenly split between SD and blu...but that is obviously changing over time. Some I choose to upgrade (Ace in the Hole, Hearts and Minds), others I don't (Overlord). I've pretty well quit buying Criterion DVDs, but once in a while I'll pick up a DVD of something not on blu, or the deal is too good to pass up. Just today I grabbed Once for $4 at 50% off and w/ discounts along with a few criterions. It doesn't have a US blu release and that's way too good a deal to pass up. Upgrading is simply a case by case basis...but for the most part I will remain happy with the vast majority of the DVDs in my collection - Criterion or otherwise.

Where blu comes in are new purchases, and those are overwhelmingly HD. I'm certainly in the camp that can't comprehend how you can be a film buff and NOT want the best presentation available of the movies you love. It simply doesn't make sense to me. I think Criterion is making a mistake by abandoning dual format so quickly, but I understand why given so many stubborn folks who just don't care about HD and they tend to be the loudest complainers about being FORCED to buy something they don't want - never mind the blu "coaster" comments that were equally annoying. I thought it was a nice way to streamline things, but Americans have proven over and over and over again that logic and common sense are anathema to their viselike grip on everything in their own little bubble, and damn anyone or anything that threatens the way they like things.

I do look forward to a return to the majority of blu releases coming in plastic cases. I just prefer them. I suppose it was inevitable that the SD luddites would make an across the board dual format line impossible.

[MichaelB]

Where blu comes in are new purchases, and those are overwhelmingly HD. I'm certainly in the camp that can't comprehend how you can be a film buff and NOT want the best presentation available of the movies you love. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

Price is a factor. I buy a lot of DVDs from Poland, where the differential is really substantial - for instance, the new Władysław Pasikowski, Jack Strong, costs 26.99 złotys on DVD, but a whopping 89.99 on BD*. I haven't seen the film, and I'm not a huge fan of Pasikowski's work in general (Aftermath being the major exception), so can I really justify paying over three times more for an HD upgrade? Especially when I could buy two more DVDs (and most Polish films don't get BD releases) and still end up spending less?

Then again, one big advantage of the DVD costing very little is that if I then watch it and decide that the film is a masterpiece, I might consider getting the BD as well - after all, the DVD won't have cost me very much and I have plenty of Polish friends I can give it to. And in the same order I also bought the BD of Ryszard Bugajski's The Closed Circuit despite a similar price differential, but that's because I'd already seen and admired it.

(*At today's exchange rate, that's £5.18/£17.26, €6,51/€21.71 and $8.86/$29.54. Granted, the higher prices aren't that outrageous, although they're more than I usually pay for non-boutique-label discs, but it's the differential that's really dramatic.)

[swo17]

Sorry to disprove your entire argument, HistoryProf, but Once actually just got a US Blu release a few months ago.

[domino harvey]

To be fair, it like Notes on a Scandal is an Amazon exclusive so it hasn't dipped below $15.99 yet. But, uh, I think the UK Blu of Once is actually region free too

[acroyear]

Just bought my first dual-format scanavo release (Judex). If the majority of the 2 DVD/1 Blu releases were packaged this way I would have loved for it to be the new standard. Oh well.

[HitchcockLang]

Just bought my first dual-format scanavo release (Judex). If the majority of the 2 DVD/1 Blu releases were packaged this way I would have loved for it to be the new standard. Oh well.

I agree! They're slightly thicker than the standard Scanavo cases but not nearly as much as the digipaks (which I swear were getting thicker and thicker--Persona is much thicker than Nashville, for instance). As a teacher, I'm bummed about losing dual format because it was convenient to have a BD for personal home viewing and a DVD for classroom purposes (I've thought about writing Criterion and recommending they release WCP Vol. 2 as dual format because somehow I doubt it will sell enough to produce two editions anyway and one of its biggest selling points is that it's nearly a course on world cinema in a box that film instructors could use).

I feel like with the new Scanavo 3-disc cases most blu-ray consumers wouldn't have anything left to complain about but I also feel that Criterion's mulligan was largely motivated by the DVD-only-buying community.

[ianthemovie]

What do you suppose are the odds that Criterion will eventually split the Jacques Demy set into Blu-Ray- and SD-only boxes? I'm dying to get it but I don't want to have to make room (let alone pay) for six discs I don't want. The difference between a 13-disc box and a 6 or 7-disc box would be pretty significant, shelf-space-wise.

[matrixschmatrix]

Uh, really? It's about the same size as the BBS set, which is only something on the order of 6 discs- they really crammed them in there. I certainly don't think they're likely to release a Blu only version at a lower RRP any time soon.

[ianthemovie]

Hm. Good to know. I was looking at the Demy box at Barnes and Noble a couple of weeks ago and it seemed to me absurdly huge. I guess I'll just have to suck it up.

[willoneill]

Hm. Good to know. I was looking at the Demy box at Barnes and Noble a couple of weeks ago and it seemed to me absurdly huge. I guess I'll just have to suck it up.

Just eyeballing my shelf, the Demy set looks at least an inch wider than the BBS set; I also thought it was pretty large when I first received it. That being said, I don't think this is the likeliest blu/dvd spilt to come soon, and even if it does, I also doubt that the blu-only version would be cheaper than it is now.

[swo17]

It's about the same size as the BBS set

Not really.

[movielocke]

Demy is even bigger than the rohmer set.

[mteller]

It's almost exactly the same width as 6 Criterion BD cases, so unless you wanted all of the movies, you could certainly save space if it were broken up. It does look ridiculously huge on my shelf.

That being said, I want to own all of them except Umbrellas (I know, I know) and Chambre, and I like having the extras, especially Varda's docs, so I'd probably just keep the box anyway (I also cling to some hope that one day Umbrellas will click with me like it does for everyone else in the universe). I would happily exchange it for a slimmer BD-only version, though.

[Minkin]

Sorry to bump this old topic, but for those that don't read /know about the Criterion FAQ /reference thread, I'll repost this here, so that they can keep track of these (unless some mod wants to make this the first post, ).

Dual Format list

As there tends to be a trend lately with Criterion dividing Dual Format releases into separate DVD & Blu editions (they have not made any official announcement about this practice, but its likely that nearly all of the Dual Format editions will one day be separated), I thought the following list would be beneficial! The following are all of the Dual Formats that Criterion released, and their current status (if it doesn't have anything listed after the title, its still an in-print dual format. My definition of in-print or OOP is based entirely on Criterion's website, not here-say). Criterion's website appears to be the last/best place to get Dual Format editions. Barnes and Noble + Amazon seem to be the first places to get the new "split up editions" -whereas Criterion's website will still have the Dual Format editions for quite awhile. I'll try to make note of this the best I can (like say, "still available at Criterion.com"). Yes, I am aware that many were already sort of "split to begin with" -meaning there was a Dual format edition and then a separate DVD edition from the beginning; for this post, we're only concerned about the fate of the Dual Format edition. Also, please send me a PM if you notice anything wrong or have any updates - I probably missed a "threat list" title + I seem to remember more DFs being split than I have below (please don't post a reply in this thread).

005 The 400 Blows --- (Split)
029 Picnic at Hanging Rock
047 Insomnia
095 All That Heaven Allows
115 Rififi
116 The Hidden Fortress --- (Split)
152 George Washington
156 Hearts and Minds
190 Throne of Blood --- (Split)
217 Tokyo Story --- (Split)
278 L'eclisse --- (Split)
281 Jules and Jim
314 Pickpocket
396 Ace in the Hole
408 Breathless --- (Split)
679 Zatoichi: The Blind Swordsman --- Blu only now?!
680 City Lights --- (Split)
681 Frances Ha
682 Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion
683 Nashville --- (Split)
684 Martin Scorsese's World Cinema Project, No. 1
691 Thief --- (Split)
692 It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World --- (Split)
693 La vie de boheme
694 The Long Day Closes
696 Foreign Correspondent --- (Split)
697 Tess --- (Split)
698 King of the Hill
699 A Brief History of Time
700 Fantastic Mr. Fox
701 Persona
702 The Great Beauty
703 The Freshman
704 Riot in Cell Block 11
705 Breaking the Waves
706 Master of the House
707 Il sorpasso
708 Like Someone in Love
709 Red River --- (Split, currently available at Criterion.com)
710 Judex
711 A Hard Day's Night
712 Scanners --- (Split)
713 The Essential Jacques Demy
720 The Big Chill --- (Split)
721 Love Streams
722 Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down!
723 Y tu mama tambien
724 All That Jazz
873 Martin Scorsese's World Cinema Project vol 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guide to understanding symbols
Split (red) = Now in separate DVD and Blu editions. If this color, the Dual Format isn't available on Criterion.com, thus good luck finding it for sale.
Criterion.com (blue) = Still available at Criterion's website
Threat List (green) = Dual Format edition OOP at most retailers, thus likely to be split - but still available at Criterion.com
DF = Dual Format

Several Dual Format editions received a separate DVD release when originally announced. See Captveg's list here.

[Yaanu]

You can change The Hidden Fortress to red.
And I was waiting for a half-off sale before grabbing the title.

[jedgeco]

You can change The Hidden Fortress to red.
And I was waiting for a half-off sale before grabbing the title.

Amazon has it as a "pre-order," with a plastic case photo. http://www.amazon.com/Criterion-Collect ... n+fortress" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guess this means they're never going to fill my backorder for the dual format.

[domino harvey]

It was always in a plastic case

[Minkin]

Tokyo Story, City Lights and Zatoichi appear to have soldout from their website as well - as they have the "not OOP, but buy it at Amazon.com" notice. I'm curious as to what they'll do to Zatoichi, as the packaging of that seemed so intergral - and it would be a shame for it to end up as a plastic case (although the slots won't be missed).

You can still find these at Amazon.com or in a BN store - but they'll only be rarer /harder to find, so best of luck.

This Dual Format to separate edition trend doesn't appear to be slowing, thus I can assume that all of them will end up in separate editions at some point. If you like the digipacks or having the extra DVD, etc - I'd suggest you start working on purchasing the above.

[jedgeco]

It was always in a plastic case

D'oh, you're right. I guess I was thinking of Jules and Jim, since it's a similar color and cover design concept.

[Minkin]

Thief dual format now soldout. Jeeze, I guess my list must've been helpful -as they've nearly all soldout today (only Foreign Correspondent + Big Chill remain of the "can only get at Criterion.com" DFs).

[dwk]

You can change The Hidden Fortress to red.
And I was waiting for a half-off sale before grabbing the title.

Amazon has it as a "pre-order," with a plastic case photo. http://www.amazon.com/Criterion-Collect ... n+fortress" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guess this means they're never going to fill my backorder for the dual format.

Some of the members of the Blu-ray.com forum have had luck getting amazon to honor the $16.99 price on the Blu-ray only edition of The Hidden Fortress.

[Minkin]

Zatoichi Dual Format is back in stock now.

All of the others mentioned as being soldout on Criterion's site (see above - red), now list separate DVD + Blu editions, so they are definitely gone.

What a roller coaster of a day for me having to update the list - going to hold off updating it further until after this sale.

[captveg]

I know you mention it in your header, but it may be worthwhile to specifically call-out the releases that had a DVD-only version available immediately, in addition to the Dual Format release, that have yet to have the DF version go OOP.

029 Picnic at Hanging Rock
047 Insomnia
314 Pickpocket
699 A Brief History of Time
702 The Great Beauty
704 Riot in Cell Block 11
706 Master of the House
707 Il sorpasso
708 Like Someone in Love
709 Red River
710 Judex
711 A Hard Day's Night
712 Scanners
721 Love Streams
722 Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down!
723 Y tu mama tambien
724 All That Jazz


I'd wager that these will, on average, take the longest to get BD-only reissues.

[Roger Ryan]

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but A Hard Day's Night already has a reconfigured case and insert for a stand-alone Blu-ray issue (as part of the "Rock Box" collection). It wouldn't take much to have this version supplant the DF.