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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:39 am 
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dwk wrote:
If any of you are signed up at the Blu-ray forums, can you tell me if this is what you guys are seeing?

--edit, screw it I stole a pic to repost here for those that aren't members
Image


Yes. I was able to even go super slow playback on the big display that I have and see the "white lines/flash"


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:41 am 
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Note that if people are either seeing this problem on all of the identified discs or none of them, that would seem to point to it being some kind of a setup issue, as a disc issue would manifest itself more sporadically. Or more accurately, this might be the cilantro of disc problems--there's clearly something there on the disc (possibly having to do with the grain structure) that is being output in a distracting way for certain setups, but the majority(?) of us will never notice.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:46 am 
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Reading along in that blu-ray Mulholland Drive thread, here's what David M said about that particular screen cap:

"It's hard to say from photos, but it looks like your Sharpness is set too high. There are MPEG basis patterns visible in the grain structure in the encode when viewed on a monitor setup, but they shouldn't be anywhere near as apparent as that. (In fact, in that particular shot, I don't see any compression issues, but your TV is absolutely sharpening up the grain). " And a little further down he mentions to switch to a Movie mode if not already there, as well as "make sure the noise reduction filters and overscan setting are turned off".

So perhaps same thing with these others? (As for me, I didn't see anything like those white lines when I was watching The In-Laws, just after discovering this thread, but in general I always have sharpness set to zero (or equiv) and rather than guess on contrast etc settings, I use a calibration disc to get them set as close to proper as it allows me to (though I've been meaning to give it another go since fixing my tv set).)

I'll eventually check out these other discs, maybe sooner than I would otherwise, but for now I'm inclined to go with tv settings issue(s), meaning if adjusted correctly these things normally wouldn't be visible. (Or maybe I'm just oblivious to them. Now rainbows on my plasma, those I do see...)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:10 am 
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I'm using a Sony Blu-ray player and a Panasonic 1080p TV, btw.

There's also some glitches in the Robert Altman interview too, but I suspect those are native to the source.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:23 am 
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I literally adjusted sharpness (and other controls like contrast) all the way from one end of the spectrum to the other and it was still there. I know it's tempting for people to take the IT approach and assume the problem is the customer being an idiot but it's just not the case. This doesn't show up on other discs, Criterion or otherwise. It's not my TV settings.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:39 am 
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It's not popping up for everybody, so it can't be a pure disc issue. It might simply be faulty discs within a whole batch, but it might also be a compatibility issue, which means there is part of the HTs which are concerned (setup, cables, players, TVs, whatever).

Again, that's why it'd be very interesting if people having the issue could try it on a computer and see if they're still witnessing the issue (which I don't believe anybody has done yet).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:43 am 
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I have a Mac, so unfortunately I can't test it there, but hopefully someone else can.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:55 am 
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flyonthewall2983 wrote:
I'm using a Sony Blu-ray player and a Panasonic 1080p TV, btw.

There's also some glitches in the Robert Altman interview too, but I suspect those are native to the source.

The glitches in the Altman interview are definitely native to the source - it looks like they recorded the interview on reused videotape (or the videotape was not properly stored for the past twenty-odd years); the oxide is falling off the source tape resulting in the frequent "drop-outs".

As for the "white line" issue, I have a Sony Blu-ray player and a Panasonic Viera Plasma and did not notice the problem while viewing The Player (twice). I didn't notice it on Mulholland Drive either (although the compression issue on that release is noticeable at times). My TV sharpness setting is at zero with all enhancements turned off. I've not tried to actively look for the defect, so it could be there, but it's certainly not severe enough to make an impression (and I tend to notice every scratch, blemish or splice in everything I watch).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:55 am 
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Okay, more research on my system with other Criterion titles, some mentioned in this thread:

Mulholland Drive exhibits no issues for me. Howards End is noisy, but it isn't the same thing I'm noting in the problem titles-- it's sporadic noise isn't pulsating in lines like with these films, and is honestly far less distracting / seems part of the transfer, as it was mentioned by many reviewers. So, not the same thing, for me at least.

I decided maybe there is something to the theory of grain being misrepresented on my system, so I tested out the two grainiest Criterion Blu-rays I could remember, My Dinner With Andre and Metropolitan. Nether had any issues whatsoever. I can't imagine a problem incorrectly displaying grain would hit Barcelona but not My Dinner With Andre. So, I still don't know what's happening, but here's more data points. If anyone wants to suggest a title for me to spot-check, if I have it I'll do it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:18 am 
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My guess is that this doesn't have to do with how grainy a film is so much as how the grain is rendered during the encode. Perhaps Criterion changed authoring houses again in the wake of the last couple years' compression issues and there's something problematic about their process.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:01 am 
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What's the bit rate during scenes when it appears?
Are the players being used hacked to be multi region?

I have not seen this on speedy, Robert drew nor fantastic planet, the three I watched in the last week.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:02 am 
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swo17 wrote:
My guess is that this doesn't have to do with how grainy a film is so much as how the grain is rendered during the encode. Perhaps Criterion changed authoring houses again in the wake of the last couple years' compression issues and there's something problematic about their process.

It's still Radius60. But the same authoring house might have change its internal process, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:21 am 
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My main player is not region free, but it does this on both


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:08 pm 
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My bad I have a Samsung TV, not Panasonic (my old one).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:38 am 
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I checked out Mulholland Drive, The Player and The Graduate last night with the specific intent on spotting the "white lines" and could not. Again, I'm viewing the discs on a Panasonic Viera plasma (using the THX cinema setting, but modified to my own preferences - i.e. zero sharpness) via a Sony player.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:18 am 
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I tried Barcelona on my TV yesterday and ended up watching it in its entirety. No issue. My TV is a Panasonic 50G20 (Plasma) and my player a Panasonic BDT-110.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:30 am 
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I think most people are not going to see a problem, and it's only really worth mentioning that if you have the same setup as someone that did report a problem here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:13 pm 
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By experience, it usually is interesting to also have some positive references, especially if it's not a 100% software nor a 100% hardware issue, which was the reason for my post. Also (but I might have misunderstood what TV he has), Roger Ryan wrote above he has a Panasonic Plasma screen too, so I thought it could be interesting to support the impression we don't suffer the problem with Panasonic Plasmas.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:07 pm 
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I also haven Panasonic plasma, player is a play station 3. If we pre select only titles with the issue it looks like an epidemic because we're not counting the healthy population. We should also check if it occurs in bonus films or features on the affected titles. Bumping into Broadway and the laloux short films don't have this issue, btw


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:11 am 
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I watched The Graduate night on a Samsung Plamsa/Oppo BD and had no problems.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:35 pm 
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Just throwing more shit out there:

The other night I threw in the Oscilloscope Embrace of the Serpent and I was getting all sorts of weird effects: like frames were jumping and there was an odd pulse that could have been similar to the issues mentioned above (though not entirely). I read reviews and found that no one mentioned this so of course assumed it was my system, which concerned me. It actually should have dawned on me what it was immediately, because this happened years ago I now remember, but didn't think of it.

After rechecking the calibration using a disc and seeing everything was apparently fine, I started going through all the PS3 settings and then came across that one setting about outputting 1080p signals as 24fps. It was set to "automatic". When I set it to "On" that fixed the problem and the disc looked great.

I think it probably got reset (I notice after updates it likes to reset some settings for some reason) and I never noticed. Checking other Blu-rays this actually wasn't an issue with most: In either of the settings the Criterions looked the same so it didn't do anything there. A couple of Arrow titles, like Hired to Kill, had the same problem, though was corrected when 24fps was turned on. My other players don't have a setting like that (as far as I can see), just output resolution, nothing specific to 24fps. Is it possible there could be some setting like that that is throwing off the output on some of these players? Of course I'm sure if there was most people have already tried it. I'm just mentioning it because it solved my one problem.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Just tried it on the Graduate, did nothing different either way


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:31 pm 

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Going through some of the Howard's End blu for the first time and noticed a small white line pop up for a second on Vanessa Redgrave's back in the very beginning at 03:27. I tried taking a picture of it, it might be hard to see but it's noticeable (then again now my eye is trained to look for such blemishes). Otherwise, the movie looks fine to me. Setup is PS4 + JVC.

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:41 pm 
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I believe people experiencing this issue are seeing more than just the occasional little white speck (which I would chalk up to film damage), right?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:43 pm 
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Yes, it is constant and patterned and inescapable-- again, like Justice Potter said, you'll know it when you see it. Howards End has its own set of noise issues


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