Its not so much the players as it is the imported disks that become cost prohibitive. I've pretty much ruled out any purchases from continental Europe due to the terrible exchange rate between the euro and the dollar. UK disks generally aren't too bad though, usually equaling the price of an upper tier Criterion.Michael Kerpan wrote:Since passable multi-region players cost only about as much as two Criterion SE releases, the _cost_ of multi-region players should not deter anyone from picking up excellent discs from outside R1.
Eclipse Random Speculation
- subliminac
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:21 am
- Location: Columbus, OH
- Max von Mayerling
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:02 pm
- Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Indeed. For example, with all due respect to MoC, an Eclipse Naruse box would have a significantly milder impact on my bottom line.subliminac wrote:Its not so much the players as it is the imported disks that become cost prohibitive. I've pretty much ruled out any purchases from continental Europe due to the terrible exchange rate between the euro and the dollar. UK disks generally aren't too bad though, usually equaling the price of an upper tier Criterion.
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- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:49 pm
I'm glad Eclipse is tackling another obscure (at least outside of the major cities) filmmaker, but Shepitko is a curious choice apart from the feminist angle and the compact filmography. I saw all of four of her features at the Walter Reade two years ago and the real standout is Wings, a melancholy piece that contrasts a Soviet aviatrix's exciting past with her banal present. I hope they include it. The Ascent has some striking imagery but it's also kind of leaden and pretentious in its symbolism, and I barely remember the other two.
I kind of wish they were doing Shepitko's husband, Elem Klimov, instead; I haven't seen as much of his work, but two of the early features, Welcome or No Trespassing and Adventures of a Dentist, have a very droll sense of humor.
I kind of wish they were doing Shepitko's husband, Elem Klimov, instead; I haven't seen as much of his work, but two of the early features, Welcome or No Trespassing and Adventures of a Dentist, have a very droll sense of humor.
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- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:56 pm
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- Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:16 pm
- Location: Fair Lawn, NJ
i wont mind if the next eclipse will either be mizo or naruse (i'm hoping for mizo though).
i have to totally disagree with perkins cobb regarding his erroneous criticism of shepitko's film "ascent". I saw this movie (a very bad copy with illegible subs, and i must say, this film is what has me so excited about the chance of seeing more of her work. "ascent" was such a powerful and moving pic, and i couldn't even read or see the images all that clear. there was nothing leaden about this film. this film was nothing short of a masterpiece. yet, you give it undue justice by calling it dull, or better yet, perhaps by leaden you thought it lacked spirit and/or animation? this film left me with tears in my eyes (and i am not ashamed to admit).
also, what about this film was pretentious? i believe you missed the boat on this one. but, this is just 1 opinion by yours truly...
i have to totally disagree with perkins cobb regarding his erroneous criticism of shepitko's film "ascent". I saw this movie (a very bad copy with illegible subs, and i must say, this film is what has me so excited about the chance of seeing more of her work. "ascent" was such a powerful and moving pic, and i couldn't even read or see the images all that clear. there was nothing leaden about this film. this film was nothing short of a masterpiece. yet, you give it undue justice by calling it dull, or better yet, perhaps by leaden you thought it lacked spirit and/or animation? this film left me with tears in my eyes (and i am not ashamed to admit).
also, what about this film was pretentious? i believe you missed the boat on this one. but, this is just 1 opinion by yours truly...
- Cinephrenic
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:58 pm
- Location: Paris, Texas
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
If CC is listening, and if the E line is experiencing any problems whatsoever, allow this consumer to humbly suggest:
Let go of the box set parameter as a requirement. Free the E line to operate more freely as a CC/Milestone/Kino/Flicker A-like dvd line, able to announce single titles when appropriate, able to announce box sets when appropriate. I think the ability to release individual titles on their own will serve E's mission both aesthetically as well as financially (financially by easing some of the costs for both criterion, as well as the consumer).
I don't think there's anything "wrong" per se with the line the way it's conceived at present... but the flexibility can only help. Perhaps critically so, too.
Let go of the box set parameter as a requirement. Free the E line to operate more freely as a CC/Milestone/Kino/Flicker A-like dvd line, able to announce single titles when appropriate, able to announce box sets when appropriate. I think the ability to release individual titles on their own will serve E's mission both aesthetically as well as financially (financially by easing some of the costs for both criterion, as well as the consumer).
I don't think there's anything "wrong" per se with the line the way it's conceived at present... but the flexibility can only help. Perhaps critically so, too.
- kaujot
- Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:28 pm
- Location: Austin
- Contact:
Well, I know that for a set like Late Ozu, you're getting each film at roughly $11 (from Criterion's store), but I can't justify spending $55 at a single time, when, at the present moment, I'm only interested in one or two of the films. The ability to buy each film individually OR in a boxset would be really fantastic (though probably a major headache for Criterion).
- Jeff
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:49 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
It would also likely eliminate some of Criterion's economic rationale for for the Eclipse line. Very few people would be likely to buy something like The Baron of Arizona, for example. This leaves Criterion with a property that they can't effectively market -- an ostensibly worthless acquisition. By including it with better-known Fuller titles though, they're able to unload it on customers who would normally not be interested. I really think the box concept is essential to the Eclipse business model.kaujot wrote:The ability to buy each film individually OR in a boxset would be really fantastic (though probably a major headache for Criterion).
I don't think the line is going anywhere either. The recent months without an announcement are likely due (at least in part) to the problems with the Klein set and the headaches and extra work that it must have caused for the Criterion staffers assigned to the Eclipse line. Based on the timing of the newsletter hint and recent blog posting, I would expect a Larisa Shepitko set in August, and Rossellini in September.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
No, you'd be left with an arthouse dvd label with smart flexibility, thats all. The line is already Criterion Jr, and thats all HVe used to be anyway.
I think the "economic rationale" is hurting them economically. They may sell the Baron of Arizona, for example, by stuffing it in with Steel Helmet.. but they may also lose sales of I Was Born But (or say Record of a Living Being) by hamstringing it with other titles -- for folks who are, if not "dabblers", a little cash strapped or just not that "director-hardcore", but want a title in there-- some don't want/already have.
The example works both ways, with arguments to and fro making good business sense-- my single point is that they should recognize this very fact, and, without abandoning the box set concept, give themselves the flexibility to do single releases when necc.
Anyhow, I know this was batted around quite a bit once before, with many coming out in favor of it (wasnt one you Jeff coincidentally or am I confusing you w someone else? seriously..)
I think the "economic rationale" is hurting them economically. They may sell the Baron of Arizona, for example, by stuffing it in with Steel Helmet.. but they may also lose sales of I Was Born But (or say Record of a Living Being) by hamstringing it with other titles -- for folks who are, if not "dabblers", a little cash strapped or just not that "director-hardcore", but want a title in there-- some don't want/already have.
The example works both ways, with arguments to and fro making good business sense-- my single point is that they should recognize this very fact, and, without abandoning the box set concept, give themselves the flexibility to do single releases when necc.
Anyhow, I know this was batted around quite a bit once before, with many coming out in favor of it (wasnt one you Jeff coincidentally or am I confusing you w someone else? seriously..)
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- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:49 pm
Yes, surely the timing of the Shepitko/Rossellini hint was intended to reassure the doomsayers, without coming right out and saying so, that Eclipse isn't toast and that the three-month hiatus is just a production hiccup. Otherwise that was kind of a pointless blog entry.
I'm just a little bummed that we'll probably be getting a string of minor directors or career swaths (Klein, Shepitko, late Rossellini) ahead of the promised Mizoguchi, Naruse, Imamura, Gremillon. Ordinarily I'd cheer for the obscure, but especially since this has turned into the Year of the Reissue on the main line, I find myself craving a steadier stream of comforting Janus canon titles.
I'm just a little bummed that we'll probably be getting a string of minor directors or career swaths (Klein, Shepitko, late Rossellini) ahead of the promised Mizoguchi, Naruse, Imamura, Gremillon. Ordinarily I'd cheer for the obscure, but especially since this has turned into the Year of the Reissue on the main line, I find myself craving a steadier stream of comforting Janus canon titles.
Not a bad idea, but awkward if the consumer asks themselves why it's an eclipse release and not a "criterion". Eclipse might have to do some maneuvering with their mission statement. We here know that it takes time to gather the elements together, but it would be unprofessional, even wasteful, if these single releases were later to be criterions. And echoing jeff, key to their concept is selling not individual films but a phase or aspect of someone's career. If they wanted to do unrefined releases like others do, couldn't they simply do it through Image?HerrSchreck wrote:The example works both ways, with arguments to and fro making good business sense-- my single point is that they should recognize this very fact, and, without abandoning the box set concept, give themselves the flexibility to do single releases when necc.=
Also I will add a recommendation, Teshigahara's color films: Map without a Map, Summer Soldiers, Rikyu, Princess Goh
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- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:32 am
I agree in general, but late Rossellini is arguably greater than anything that's been released by Criterion/Eclipse in a long time, if not ever. I'm also more excited about these than I would be for early or mid-period Rossellini -- as great as those films are, I prefer the historical films. The Age of the Medici is maybe my favorite Rossellini that I've seen, period. It would be amazing if they could release Acts of the Apostles.Perkins Cobb wrote:I'm just a little bummed that we'll probably be getting a string of minor directors or career swaths (Klein, Shepitko, late Rossellini) ahead of the promised Mizoguchi, Naruse, Imamura, Gremillon.
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
People have already been doing that since the beginning of the line. Folks were disappointed coincidentally over the two releases I mentioned in my last post-- Record of a Livng Being by AK, and I Was Born But.. by Ozu. Everyone wants to see their faves get "the treatment". Even with films they'd never seen before and initially accepted as Eclipse... as in Bernard, people see the films and ex-post-facto wish they were CC's so they could get some context via extras on these newly discovered wonders.Alphonso wrote:Not a bad idea, but awkward if the consumer asks themselves why it's an eclipse release and not a "criterion".
Their primary mission statement is: Eclipse is a selection of lost, forgotten, or overshadowed classics in simple, affordable editions. The "cinemateque" thing seemd to be an add-on idea once the idea went public (I may be wrong on this, but the bulk of the leaks concerning E in the years prior to its arrival was that it would operate like Criterions weird little brother.. with Robinson Crusoe on Mars, Equinox, The Holy Mountain, etc, and other lesser known titles. I think the box set idea took everyone by surprise.Alphonso wrote: Eclipse might have to do some maneuvering with their mission statement. (...) And echoing jeff, key to their concept is selling not individual films but a phase or aspect of someone's career.
Anyhow, I think it'd be a terrible idea to abandon the box-set cinemateque idea. But I think it'd be a great idea to add the single release flexibility.
And putting a release out through Image will not profit them. It's their corporate parent-- the profits flow up, not down... though arrangements could be made I'm sure.
- colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
- Tribe
- The Bastard Spawn of Hank Williams
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:59 pm
- Location: Toledo, Ohio
- Contact:
Image isn't the corporate parent of Criterion...just a distributor. A distributor with some influence perhaps, but a separate corporate entity.HerrSchreck wrote:And putting a release out through Image will not profit them. It's their corporate parent-- the profits flow up, not down... though arrangements could be made I'm sure.
Tribe
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
There you go. So that totally takes the idea off the table.Tribe wrote:Image isn't the corporate parent of Criterion...just a distributor. A distributor with some influence perhaps, but a separate corporate entity.HerrSchreck wrote:And putting a release out through Image will not profit them. It's their corporate parent-- the profits flow up, not down... though arrangements could be made I'm sure.
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
colinr0380 wrote:It is just on my mind with the recent release of the Artificial Eye discs but could an 'Early Bresson' pairing of Les Anges du péché with the shorter Les Affaires publiques be at all possible?
I believe Affaires publiques is actively suppressed by Mylene, so it's unlikely. Anyway, that sounds like an excellent Criterion "film plus short" lower-tier release to me.
I see Schreck's point about flexibility. There may be instances where isolated films fall between the gaps of the two lines (no obvious dance partners for Eclipse; not strong enough materials or too uncommercial for a lower-tier Criterion). Eclipse could still handle these if they allow for some randomization of the box concepts, however (e.g. 'First Films', 'Forgotten Treasure Vol 1' - collecting together three pretty much unrelated titles).
I'm not so sure that the 'box' concept is that much of a turn-off for people only interested in a single title. If you're keen to see one silent film by Ozu, would you really be completely uninterested in a second and third? Particularly if they cost about the same as a single-film Criterion release? It's probably swings and roundabouts - I'm sure there are a lot of purchasers who are more likely to pick up a tidy collection of 'risky' films at a low price than the individual titles.
Every time there's a lull in the Eclipse release schedule we start philosophizing about the line's raison d'etre. This at least should be an incentive for Criterion to pull something out of the hat: to shut us up!
- Jeff
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:49 pm
- Location: Denver, CO
Probably. I can't find such a comment by me now, but I say all kinds of crazy shit, and have been known to contradict myself. Anyway, I'm in no way against the idea of Eclipse releasing individual titles. I just don't think it would make sense for them to release titles individually that are also in box sets, as it would ultimately hurt the sales of the boxes.HerrSchreck wrote:The example works both ways, with arguments to and fro making good business sense-- my single point is that they should recognize this very fact, and, without abandoning the box set concept, give themselves the flexibility to do single releases when necc.
Anyhow, I know this was batted around quite a bit once before, with many coming out in favor of it (wasnt one you Jeff coincidentally or am I confusing you w someone else? seriously..)
If, however, there are (as zedz suggests) "orphan titles" that do not make sense for inclusion in any box, and are too obscure, too poorly preserved, or insufficiently supplemented for the main Criterion line, I think they would make fine individual Eclipse titles.
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
I must have miscommunicated-- I didn't mean opening up box sets to individual sales... all forthcoming box set releases would stay box sets, all singles would be singles because they make better sense as singles. If they wanted to crack a particular box on their own (like Monterey for Jimi/Otis on CC) that would be great but unexpected.
Some box sets from E are, as z says, the price of a high tier CC; but thats about half so far.. the other five E boxes are, in relation to General DVD Purchase Pricing, higher-priced-- they are the 4/5 title releases. And folks just have to pace themselves with box sets nowadays. With Flicker Alley, Moc, Bfi, Filmmuseum, Kino, AND CC dropping murderously good titles each month, I just cant "do" a box set each month. Many of the titles in some of these boxes just don't make my hair stand up.
Anyhow, that was my two cents. Just wanted to clarify I didn't mean to go back and open up prevoius releases.. I just think for the future they could attract more buyers per-disc if they considered individual release titles, and gave themselves the opportunity for variety and flexibility affiorded by single disc titles, free of the financial weight of a box.
Some box sets from E are, as z says, the price of a high tier CC; but thats about half so far.. the other five E boxes are, in relation to General DVD Purchase Pricing, higher-priced-- they are the 4/5 title releases. And folks just have to pace themselves with box sets nowadays. With Flicker Alley, Moc, Bfi, Filmmuseum, Kino, AND CC dropping murderously good titles each month, I just cant "do" a box set each month. Many of the titles in some of these boxes just don't make my hair stand up.
Anyhow, that was my two cents. Just wanted to clarify I didn't mean to go back and open up prevoius releases.. I just think for the future they could attract more buyers per-disc if they considered individual release titles, and gave themselves the opportunity for variety and flexibility affiorded by single disc titles, free of the financial weight of a box.
- Awesome Welles
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:02 am
- Location: London