'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

News on Criterion and Janus Films.
Locked
Message
Author
User avatar
Matt
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1801 Post by Matt » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:35 pm

Ugh, what is the delay with The Red Shoes? The only excuse I will accept is that Criterion is waiting to release it in tandem with Black Narcissus on Blu-ray.

User avatar
triodelover
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: The hills of East Tennessee

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1802 Post by triodelover » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:43 pm

Matt wrote:Ugh, what is the delay with The Red Shoes? The only excuse I will accept is that Criterion is waiting to release it in tandem with Black Narcissus on Blu-ray.
Or in tandem with The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp =D> , which Thelma Schoomaker said was undergoing a new HD restoration her Film Forum interview.

User avatar
Brian C
I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1803 Post by Brian C » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:49 pm

triodelover wrote:Or in tandem with The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp =D> , which Thelma Schoomaker said was undergoing a new HD restoration her Film Forum interview.
Wouldn't a new release of Blimp be an awful long way off, though? The theatrical release isn't yet imminent, so a new DVD release would be, what, at least a year off? Probably more? I certainly hope that Criterion isn't sitting on The Red Shoes for that long, just for the sake of a tandem release that would be more symbolic than anything.

Most likely, they just needed/wanted an extra month. It happens, right?

User avatar
triodelover
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: The hills of East Tennessee

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1804 Post by triodelover » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:57 pm

Brian C wrote:
triodelover wrote:Or in tandem with The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp =D> , which Thelma Schoomaker said was undergoing a new HD restoration her Film Forum interview.
Wouldn't a new release of Blimp be an awful long way off, though? The theatrical release isn't yet imminent, so a new DVD release would be, what, at least a year off? Probably more? I certainly hope that Criterion isn't sitting on The Red Shoes for that long, just for the sake of a tandem release that would be more symbolic than anything.

Most likely, they just needed/wanted an extra month. It happens, right?
Sure. Because of the enormous buzz created by the restoration, I can't imagine Criterion withholding a release any longer than absolutley necessary. My "suggestion" comes from my enthusiasm over Thelma's announcement regarding what is probably my favorite P&P and the fact I already own the ITV BD of Black Narcissus (which I would likely dump at any rate for a Criterion BD release).

User avatar
brendanjc
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:29 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1805 Post by brendanjc » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:55 pm

I'm pretty happy about the releases this month, but I was hoping that Mystery Train would be accompanied by a Down By Law Blu-ray, since it was one of those titles in that Amazon contest awhile back. It'll probably be quite awhile before they get to it now.

User avatar
perkizitore
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
Location: OOP is the only answer

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1806 Post by perkizitore » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:12 pm

I am disappointed that two modern films are DVD only, while i already own Red Desert and Leopard on blu! [-(
I am happy for Mystery Train and Night Train To Munich!

User avatar
Jeff
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Denver, CO

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1807 Post by Jeff » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:27 pm

RobertAltman wrote:Steven Soderbergh´s new Spalding Gray doc now has a title: And Everything is Going Fine. Josh Olson reviews it here, and his review includes this bit:
the producer hinted that we’ll get more, eventually - something’s in the works with Criterion. Hooray!
I´m guessing this means this new documentary as well as the Gray´s Anatomy, which has been on the "forthcoming" list for years...
Might even be more than that...
Hollywood Elsewhere wrote:He mentions that during the q & a, one of the producers (Joshua Blum or Amy Hobby) answered a question about plans to release Gray's performance films on DVD by saying, "We hope to see a box set come out through the Criterion Collection in 2011, but the deal's not done yet."

Ishmael
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:56 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1808 Post by Ishmael » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:43 pm

triodelover wrote:
Brian C wrote:
triodelover wrote:Or in tandem with The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp =D> , which Thelma Schoomaker said was undergoing a new HD restoration her Film Forum interview.
Wouldn't a new release of Blimp be an awful long way off, though? The theatrical release isn't yet imminent, so a new DVD release would be, what, at least a year off? Probably more?
Probably more. I saw Thelma Schoonmaker speak in DC last night at a screening of The Red Shoes, and she said they were hoping to have Blimp restored by next year. It's definitely happening; it just won't be hitting DVD all that soon.

User avatar
movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1809 Post by movielocke » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:49 pm

Loved Everlasting Moments and was really looking forward to its release. too bad I won't be buying it since its only in SD

ianungstad
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:20 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1810 Post by ianungstad » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:49 pm

movielocke wrote:Loved Everlasting Moments and was really looking forward to its release. too bad I won't be buying it since its only in SD
Then you obviously don't love the movie that much. If you really loved a movie you would buy it regardless if it was barebones, criterion, dvd, blu, warner archives, etc.

These thinly veiled "tech fetish" posts are starting to get irritating month after month.

User avatar
Svevan
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1811 Post by Svevan » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:54 pm

There's nothing wrong with wanting the best possible edition of a movie, especially since there's a Blu of that particular title floating out there in multi-region land. Saying he doesn't truly love the movie is childish. It's his choice, not yours.

User avatar
Fierias
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:49 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1812 Post by Fierias » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:22 pm

3+ years into the life of a new format, I think there is no shame in looking forward without turning back. I stopped buying VHS 2 years into the life of DVD.

And why complain about 'tech fetish' on a criterion board? Isn't the label about tech fetish?

User avatar
Tom Hagen
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:35 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1813 Post by Tom Hagen » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:11 pm

I was hoping that Criterion was going to announce the upgrade of it's entire catalogue in Blu this month.

User avatar
MyNameCriterionForum
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:27 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1814 Post by MyNameCriterionForum » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:19 pm

They just posted everything to YouTube (including the restored Andrei Rublev)

AisleSeat
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:16 pm
Location: Arlington, VA

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1815 Post by AisleSeat » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:11 am

Tom Hagen wrote:Outstanding news. Following Two-Lane Blacktop, this will make the second of the low budget, post-Easy Rider films that Universal produced in the early '70s to appear on Criterion. I hope it's a success; I'd love to see Criterion take a stab at Diary of a Mad Housewife and, god help us all, The Last Movie.
When queried several months ago on Facebook regarding Diary of a Mad Housewife (and Perry films in general), the response was "We like Frank Perry." Neither a qualified affirmation nor a firm denial, so it seems more of a vague possibility. To be fully appreciated, Diary needs to be viewed uncut in its complete, non-TV version. It would be an interesting addition to the Collection, but my first choice for a Frank Perry inclusion would be Last Summer.

User avatar
scotty2
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:24 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1816 Post by scotty2 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:56 am

Regarding Perry, I could certainly be persuaded to pick up The Swimmer and Play It As It Lays.

User avatar
foofighters7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:27 pm
Location: Local

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1817 Post by foofighters7 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:56 am

ianungstad wrote:
movielocke wrote:Loved Everlasting Moments and was really looking forward to its release. too bad I won't be buying it since its only in SD
Then you obviously don't love the movie that much. If you really loved a movie you would buy it regardless if it was barebones, criterion, dvd, blu, warner archives, etc.

These thinly veiled "tech fetish" posts are starting to get irritating month after month.
Completely agree.

I simply do not understand someone saying "loved the film, cant wait to get it on dvd!"

Then, as soon as it is released, "Well, loved the film but its ONLY on dvd, so I will pass."

To me, this just sounds ludicrous if you actually liked and wanted the film. Get an up-converting player and stop being so anal! At least it is available on dvd!

But that's just me.

User avatar
Fierias
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:49 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1818 Post by Fierias » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:08 pm

foofighters7 wrote:
ianungstad wrote:
movielocke wrote:Loved Everlasting Moments and was really looking forward to its release. too bad I won't be buying it since its only in SD
Then you obviously don't love the movie that much. If you really loved a movie you would buy it regardless if it was barebones, criterion, dvd, blu, warner archives, etc.

These thinly veiled "tech fetish" posts are starting to get irritating month after month.
Completely agree.

I simply do not understand someone saying "loved the film, cant wait to get it on dvd!"

Then, as soon as it is released, "Well, loved the film but its ONLY on dvd, so I will pass."

To me, this just sounds ludicrous if you actually liked and wanted the film. Get an up-converting player and stop being so anal! At least it is available on dvd!

But that's just me.
not that any of this is on topic, but I think it makes sense to hold out right now on DVD-only releases because the likelihood that a Blu-rerelease following soon after is so high. Why bellyache about those who want a company to keep high standards for their transfers? The difference between blu and DVD is greater than the difference between single-layer, non-anamorphic DVDs and their dual-layered, anamorphic rereleases that everyone is clamoring for. "If you actually like Andrei Rublev, be thankful Criterion released it in a crappy addition! if you don't buy that and are waiting for the rereleased blu you must not love Tarkovsky!" Everlasting Moments should be on blu, and it is ridiculous that it isn't coming day and date with the DVD in June (yet).

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1819 Post by swo17 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:40 pm

Actually, at this stage in the game, I would assume that if a film is going to get a Blu-ray release in the near future, it would be at the same time that it gets a DVD release. If there wasn't a compelling reason for Criterion to put this out on BD while they were actively working on a release of some form, what's going to motivate them to do so after they have moved on to other projects? For the next three months, the best strategy to get Everlasting Moments on Blu is to barrage Criterion with complaints, but failing that, the only effective way to lobby for a BD release is to show Criterion that it's a viable moneymaker by putting your money where your mouth is and buying the DVD!

User avatar
triodelover
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: The hills of East Tennessee

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1820 Post by triodelover » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:41 pm

Fierias wrote:not that any of this is on topic, but I think it makes sense to hold out right now on DVD-only releases because the likelihood that a Blu-rerelease following soon after is so high.
Speaking specifically of Everlasting Moments, why to you think this? The pre-eminent authoring house in R1/RA has just announced a June release that is DVD only. Unless they are going to pull another A Christmas Tale and announce the BD well before the June release, they risk angering their customer base, most of whom will buy on the basis of the film and not the format (except for a very small subset of tech addicts on the Blu-ray.com forum).

The UK release is said to be incomplete - excised minutes -and it, too, is DVD only. The Swedish Blu-ray isn't English-friendly. Where is the rights-holder that is going to release an English-friendly BD located?

Frankly, not buying this particular DVD if you love this film makes less sense that normal since Criterion DVDs tend to retain their value and can be sold on the used market fairly easily. This isn't Facets.

Addendum: What swo said.

User avatar
fdm
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:25 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1821 Post by fdm » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:00 pm

Fierias wrote:not that any of this is on topic, but I think it makes sense to hold out right now on DVD-only releases because the likelihood that a Blu-rerelease following soon after is so high. Why bellyache about those who want a company to keep high standards for their transfers? The difference between blu and DVD is greater than the difference between single-layer, non-anamorphic DVDs and their dual-layered, anamorphic rereleases that everyone is clamoring for. "If you actually like Andrei Rublev, be thankful Criterion released it in a crappy addition! if you don't buy that and are waiting for the rereleased blu you must not love Tarkovsky!" Everlasting Moments should be on blu, and it is ridiculous that it isn't coming day and date with the DVD in June (yet).
The likelihood at this point of a Criterion blu-ray release following soon after a blu-ray era Criterion dvd-only release is essentially nil. This likelihood will only change once Criterion finally does such a thing. Until then, this sadly is just random speculation. Wait if you think you must, but why try to convince anyone else that they are wasting their time/money/whatever if they don't share your opinion? And why be so obnoxious about it (this isn't blu-ray.com)?

Addendum: I guess this is a bit redundant with what swo said. :)

User avatar
Fierias
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:49 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1822 Post by Fierias » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:04 pm

I admit to not knowing the motivations for Criterion only releasing this film in on DVD; I do not know much about the logistics of the market, and they may well have near-proof that a blu would be economically insufficient, or they just couldn't work out something with rights or tranfers or whatever. But, speaking as someone who doesn't love the film (I haven't seen it), it seems to me that the only way to prevent DVD-only releases in the future for films I do love (beside impassioned emails), is by not supporting these types of releases. DVD will only stop being the 'economically more doable' option once people stop buying them as much, right? Laserdisc and VHS were phased out only once DVD started selling more than the former formats, and I imagine it will be the same with blu-ray. I'm aware of the paradox that if you want a better release, you have to show that there is a market for the release by buying the inferior version, and it sucks, but why should anyone antagonize those who take a personal stand and resist buying an edition of a film on a format that is being replaced?

And also, MOC and Criterion are very different, of course, but also very similar in their missions and title selections; Criterion's A Christmas Tale situation, and especially MOC's Une femme mariee quick turn-around are examples of why waiting isn't such a bad thing, especially when you can rent in the meantime. Criterion hasn't been too specific about their upgrade patterns, but at this 'stage' nothing will surprise me.

Edit to add:
fdm wrote:Wait if you think you must, but why try to convince anyone else that they are wasting their time/money/whatever if they don't share your opinion? And why be so obnoxious about it (this isn't blu-ray.com)?
give me a break. if you want to put words in my mouth, you could be more subtle at least. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm defending an innocent decision to not buy something that was questioned by two posters who were quite more hostile in their approach than I was.

User avatar
Brian C
I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1823 Post by Brian C » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:18 pm

swo17 wrote:...but failing that, the only effective way to lobby for a BD release is to show Criterion that it's a viable moneymaker by putting your money where your mouth is and buying the DVD!
One sees this logic often, and I just don't understand it. What you're saying is, the only way to get a superior product is by first buying an inferior one, just to prove that you really want the superior one.

I call this "the gullible consumer." It's a merchant's dream for consumers to behave this way, because it basically means that they, and not the consumers, get to dictate the marketplace. It implies that consumers ought to buy whatever merchants are willing to give them. By this logic, Criterion should announce all of their titles as DVD-only, since consumers will be flocking to double-dip in the near future anyway. Or taking things further, if you really like a Corolla, but are worried that Toyota's Corollas are dangerous, you should buy one anyway just to prove that the marketplace for a safe Corolla is viable. Because after all, if no one is buying a dangerous Corolla, that must mean that the marketplace isn't viable enough to spend all the money to make them safer!

Now, I don't really have a dog in this particular hunt. I liked the Troell, and would be happy to buy the BD, but I can't say I "loved" it. It's not a vital purchase for me, so the temptation to buy the DVD is nil. I simply have other things that I'll be happy to spend my money on that will provide as much as or more pleasure as this.

But at the same time, consumers really ought to realize that the merchants ought to be begging them to buy their products, not the other way around. And especially in this case - since we're talking about a new film, and not one that carries prohibitive restoration costs with it - it strikes me as foolish to settle for whatever is given to us. If someone wants to hold out for Blu, they ought to do so. Buying it anyway is certainly in the interests of Criterion, but much less clearly in the interest of the consumer.

User avatar
aox
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:02 pm
Location: nYc

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1824 Post by aox » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:27 pm

Brian C wrote:
swo17 wrote:...but failing that, the only effective way to lobby for a BD release is to show Criterion that it's a viable moneymaker by putting your money where your mouth is and buying the DVD!
One sees this logic often, and I just don't understand it. What you're saying is, the only way to get a superior product is by first buying an inferior one, just to prove that you really want the superior one.

I call this "the gullible consumer." It's a merchant's dream for consumers to behave this way, because it basically means that they, and not the consumers, get to dictate the marketplace. It implies that consumers ought to buy whatever merchants are willing to give them. By this logic, Criterion should announce all of their titles as DVD-only, since consumers will be flocking to double-dip in the near future anyway. Or taking things further, if you really like a Corolla, but are worried that Toyota's Corollas are dangerous, you should buy one anyway just to prove that the marketplace for a safe Corolla is viable. Because after all, if no one is buying a dangerous Corolla, that must mean that the marketplace isn't viable enough to spend all the money to make them safer!

Now, I don't really have a dog in this particular hunt. I liked the Troell, and would be happy to buy the BD, but I can't say I "loved" it. It's not a vital purchase for me, so the temptation to buy the DVD is nil. I simply have other things that I'll be happy to spend my money on that will provide as much as or more pleasure as this.

But at the same time, consumers really ought to realize that the merchants ought to be begging them to buy their products, not the other way around. And especially in this case - since we're talking about a new film, and not one that carries prohibitive restoration costs with it - it strikes me as foolish to settle for whatever is given to us. If someone wants to hold out for Blu, they ought to do so. Buying it anyway is certainly in the interests of Criterion, but much less clearly in the interest of the consumer.
Exactly.

I broke down and bought The Human Condition... now where's my Blu Ray? The answer is that it isn't coming.

User avatar
triodelover
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:11 pm
Location: The hills of East Tennessee

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#1825 Post by triodelover » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:31 pm

Fierias wrote:I admit to not knowing the motivations for Criterion only releasing this film in on DVD; I do not know much about the logistics of the market, and they may well have near-proof that a blu would be economically insufficient, or they just couldn't work out something with rights or tranfers or whatever. But, speaking as someone who doesn't love the film (I haven't seen it), it seems to me that the only way to prevent DVD-only releases in the future for films I do love (beside impassioned emails), is by not supporting these types of releases. DVD will only stop being the 'economically more doable' option once people stop buying them as much, right?
Or the company will go out of business. #-o Seriously, despite all the hype about Blu-ray sales this past holiday season and the enthusiasm with which the format is greeted by some on forums like these, DVD buyers and renters are still the lion's share of the market. The average consumer just switched to DVD a few years ago. I believe the first year that DVD sales/rentals equaled VHS sales and rentals in the US was 2004. I think the industry is trying to make the move to Blu more user friendly economically (if not technically) and I think that transition will happen at a faster pace. But I doubt that Blu-ray aficionados have enough market clout at this point (and are hardly a unified front) to make a difference.
Fierias wrote:Laserdisc and VHS were phased out only once DVD started selling more than the former formats, and I imagine it will be the same with blu-ray.
Two words: back compatibility. Laserdisc and VHS have effectively disappeared because maintaining viewing capability meant dedicated machines for each. Every BD player will play your DVDs. Several can be made region-free for both formats. As folks like MichaelB have discussed here, the DVD isn't going away simply because there are too many films (and TV) for which a Blu release cannot be justified economically or artistically. DVDs aren't going away anytime soon.
Fierias wrote:I'm aware of the paradox that if you want a better release, you have to show that there is a market for the release by buying the inferior version, and it sucks, but why should anyone antagonize those who take a personal stand and resist buying an edition of a film on a format that is being replaced?
One more word: upscaling. Upscaling algoritms have gotten very good. I can easily see why a company may choose not to produce a BD of a given film if the available elements coupled with the projected sales don't warrant the extra effort. They know that every one of their Blu-ray customers is possessed with a player or software that upscales SD to 1080p. The result, while not quite what you get in tru Blu-ray, is still very, very good and an image that the vast majority of consumers will be happy with.
Fierias wrote:And also, MOC and Criterion are very different, of course, but also very similar in their missions and title selections; Criterion's A Christmas Tale situation, and especially MOC's Une femme mariee quick turn-around are examples of why waiting isn't such a bad thing, especially when you can rent in the meantime. Criterion hasn't been too specific about their upgrade patterns, but at this 'stage' nothing will surprise me.
I said elsewhere on the forum that I wished that Criterion would be a bit more forthcoming about their back catalogue plans for BD. But since they began releases in the format, if a film new to the catalogue is going to get Blu treatment, it's always been a dual release. The exception, as has been pointed out is A Christmas Tale. The Godard is the only fim MoC has reached back and re-released on Blu and, as Nick said here, they agonized over it. He's also said that there are no plans to go further into the back catalogue for Blu releases.

So if you want Everlasting Moments in Blu now, the best hope is to convince Mulvaney and the gang over the next month or so to release it concurrently with the DVD.

Locked