1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

An ongoing survey of the Criterion Forum membership to create lists of the best films of each decade and genre.
Message
Author
User avatar
Gropius
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#701 Post by Gropius » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:37 pm

swo17 wrote:06. Black Narcissus (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1947)
Interesting that Narcissus has risen to become the second-most popular P&P title and joint third most-voted for film. Maybe the Blu-Ray release has helped to underscore quite how visually stunning it is. I put it at 6 also: there are some minor imperfections (I find the child actors slightly annoying, and by modern standards it's all pretty orientalist), but Kerr and the scenery triumph above all.

User avatar
matrixschmatrix
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#702 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:09 pm

Gropius wrote:there are some minor imperfections (I find the child actors slightly annoying, and by modern standards it's all pretty orientalist), but Kerr and the scenery triumph above all.
Haha, it's super Orientalist, like it's the kind of thing I would show people to help them understand what 'Orientalism' means. I think it can overcome that- I think it's so far removed from reality that it's fundamentally not about a real India, and if you assume that you're watching a British fantasyland like Shangri-La it becomes somewhat less of a problem- but absolutely no doubt it's the kind of thing Edward Said could have build a three hour lecture around.

User avatar
nsps
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:25 am
Contact:

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#703 Post by nsps » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:37 pm

Yeah, I agree that the orientalism reaches a certain level of fantasy, and doesn't have any mean-spiritedness to it, so it wasn't a dealbreaker. BLACK NARCISSUS almost made my list, but probably fell off partly because I already had four P&P films on there and some other directors I'm quite fond of weren't making the cut. (I make a point not to disqualify a film simply because its author already had several titles on the list, mind you, but when I was in the crunch zone I'm sure it played a bit of a part.)

User avatar
Shrew
The Untamed One
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:22 am

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#704 Post by Shrew » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:11 pm

The sheer textbook nature orientalism (everything is there: sex, simplicity, mysticism, the effeminate male, the sense of "ne'er the twain shall meet") of the film makes it interesting though, and as nsps notes, it's not egregiously offensive. It's neither trying to suppose the greatness (they're close to nature!) or damning them for not being white and primitive. The imperialism is complicated by the sheer density of everything and the orientalism just becomes another complex thread in the tapestry. It also helps that as annoying and stereotypical as Sabu is, he's still a well crafted character, struggling to find his place just like the nuns. (And all is forgiven of Hayatt's Ayah for her wonderful mocking of the nuns' "Sister Ruuuth!")

I find things like Harold Lloyd's The Cat's Paw much more offensive, though interesting. And Gunga Din is both offensive and hideously uncomplicated in its awful viewpoint.

User avatar
Mr Sheldrake
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Jersey burbs exit 4

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#705 Post by Mr Sheldrake » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:27 pm

I was struck by the hit comedy took in this go round. Only 5 in the top fifty.

23 The Lady Eve -12
31 His Girl Friday -19
39 The Palm Beach Story -4
47 Sullivans Travels -34
48 Hail the Conquering Hero +

Only 5 in the next 50, the most surprising was The Shop Around the Corner at 60, - 42!

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#706 Post by domino harvey » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:01 pm

Thanks for the ranking list, bro17

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#707 Post by knives » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:14 pm

Three cheers and all the wine you can buy with $4 for Swo on the great as usual job.

User avatar
matrixschmatrix
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#708 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:24 pm

Mr Sheldrake wrote:I was struck by the hit comedy took in this go round. Only 5 in the top fifty.
Kind Hearts and Coronets isn't a comedy now?

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#709 Post by swo17 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:52 pm

Not to mention To Be or Not to Be.

User avatar
Siddon
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 7:44 am

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#710 Post by Siddon » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:52 pm

Mr Sheldrake wrote:I was struck by the hit comedy took in this go round. Only 5 in the top fifty.
For me it was The Great Dictator not making the cut, that one made my top ten and it finished #139.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#711 Post by zedz » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:00 pm

YnEoS wrote:I think as there become more and more films available per decade, the lists will end up becoming more and more conventional. Given less time, people will see some lesser known stuff, but not all of it, and the ones everyone has seen will still rise to the top. People also have more old favorites in a decade like this and less room to incorporate lesser known films.

I know this probably won't happen, especially part way through the decades project, but has anyone considered raising the amount of films on each submitted list to 75 or 100, for a final list of 150 or 200? With more room on the lists people might be more inclined to include some lesser known titles that were great, but didn't completely overshadow old favorites.
From my collation experience, I strongly suspect that doing this would simply ensure that the final list was nothing but canonical titles. Basically, the more people participate and the more films they can vote for, the more the usual suspects will prevail. It's the nature of the beast.

This final tally is somewhat bland, but hardly surprising (or embarrassing), and as usual there's lots of action in the lower reaches and among the darlings.

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#712 Post by swo17 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:06 pm

Just for kicks, I thought I would see how differently the list would turn out if I only counted the top 10, 20, etc. from each submitted list. The changes in position shown below are from the master top 50 list. As you can see, the more votes I count, the more the list conforms to the expected canon:

Counting only everyone's Top 10:

01. Ivan the Terrible (Sergei Eisenstein, 1944/6) 72/10(10)/1(x3)/+4
02. Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941) 65/10(10)/1(x4)/--
03. The Third Man (Carol Reed, 1949) 64/10(10)/1(x2)/+1
(tie) The Red Shoes (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1948) 64/9(9)/1(x2)/--
05. Late Spring (Yasujirô Ozu, 1949) 63/10(10)/1(x2)/-3
06. Notorious (Alfred Hitchcock, 1946) 50/7(7)/2(x2)/+5
07. Casablanca (Michael Curtiz, 1942) 42/7(7)/1(x2)/--
08. Letter from an Unknown Woman (Max Ophüls, 1948) 36/5(5)/1(x2)/--
09. Children of Paradise (Marcel Carné, 1945) 34/4(4)/1/+11
10. A Canterbury Tale (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1944) 32/4(4)/1/+16
11. Black Narcissus (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1947) 29/5(5)/1/-5
(tie) To Be or Not to Be (Ernst Lubitsch, 1942) 29/4(4)/1/+25
13. Rebecca (Alfred Hitchcock, 1940) 28/4(4)/2/+5
14. Ladri di biciclette (Vittorio De Sica, 1948) 26/5(5)/2(x2)/+3
15. Out of the Past (Jacques Tourneur, 1947) 25/4(4)/1/-3
(tie) The Lady Eve (Preston Sturges, 1941) 25/4(4)/3(x3)/+8
(tie) Hail the Conquering Hero (Preston Sturges, 1944) 25/3(3)/2(x2)/+33
18. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1943) 23/4(4)/2/+12
(tie) Le corbeau (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1943) 23/3(3)/2/+25
20. Beauty and the Beast (Jean Cocteau, 1946) 22/6(6)/4/-11
(tie) Double Indemnity (Billy Wilder, 1944) 22/4(4)/1/+4
(tie) It's a Wonderful Life (Frank Capra, 1946) 22/3(3)/2(x2)/+46
23. A Matter of Life and Death (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1946) 20/4(4)/1/+2
(tie) Day of Wrath (Carl Dreyer, 1943) 20/4(4)/3/-13
(tie) The Best Years of Our Lives (William Wyler, 1946) 20/4(4)/4/-7
26. Force of Evil (Abraham Polonsky, 1948) 19/4(4)/3/+14
(tie) The Lady from Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1944) 19/3(3)/3/-13
28. Kind Hearts and Coronets (Robert Hamer, 1949) 17/4(4)/2/+3
(tie) The Seventh Victim (Mark Robson, 1943) 17/3(3)/3/+21
(tie) Great Expectations (David Lean, 1946) 17/3(3)/4/+24
31. Fantasia (James Algar et al, 1940) 16/3(3)/3/+31
(tie) Listen to Britain (Humphrey Jennings & Stewart McAllister, 1942) 16/2(2)/2/+65
(tie) La terra trema (Luchino Visconti, 1948) 16/2(2)/3(x2)/+12
34. I Know Where I'm Going! (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1945) 15/3(3)/3/-7
(tie) Whirlpool (Otto Preminger, 1949) 15/2(2)/1/+93
36. Le silence de la Mer (Jean-Pierre Melville, 1948) 14/4(4)/5(x2)/+25
(tie) The Shanghai Gesture (Josef von Sternberg, 1941) 14/3(3)/5(x2)/+38
38. Germany, Year Zero (Roberto Rossellini, 1948) 13/3(3)/2/-1
(tie) Brief Encounter (David Lean, 1945) 13/3(3)/4/-16
(tie) Unter den Brücken (Helmut Käutner, 1946) 13/2(2)/1/+43
(tie) Ritual in Transfigured Time (Maya Deren, 1946) 13/2(2)/2/+61
(tie) Canyon Passage (Jacques Tourneur, 1946) 13/2(2)/2/+90
(tie) The Miracle of Morgan's Creek (Preston Sturges, 1944) 13/2(2)/4/+15
44. Meet Me in St. Louis (Vincente Minnelli, 1944) 12/4(4)/6/-11
(tie) They Made Me a Fugitive (Alberto Cavalcanti, 1947) 12/2(2)/1/+68
(tie) The Big Sleep (Howard Hawks, 1946) 12/2(2)/3/-30
(tie) Red River (Howard Hawks, 1948) 12/2(2)/4/-9
48. Went the Day Well? (Alberto Cavalcanti, 1942) 11/3(3)/6/+9
(tie) Rome, Open City (Roberto Rossellini, 1945) 11/2(2)/2/+11
(tie) Blood of the Beasts (Georges Franju, 1949) 11/2(2)/2/+28
(tie) A Diary for Timothy (Humphrey Jennings, 1945) 11/2(2)/2/+76
(tie) The Maltese Falcon (John Huston, 1941) 11/2(2)/3/-7
(tie) The Ghost and Mrs. Muir (Joseph Mankiewicz, 1947) 11/2(2)/3/+20
(tie) The Palm Beach Story (Preston Sturges, 1942) 11/2(2)/5/-9

Top 20:

01. The Red Shoes (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1948) 195/15(9)/1(x2)/+2
02. Late Spring (Yasujirô Ozu, 1949) 193/14(10)/1(x2)/--
03. Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941) 187/15(10)/1(x4)/--
04. The Third Man (Carol Reed, 1949) 186/14(10)/1(x2)/--
05. Ivan the Terrible (Sergei Eisenstein, 1944/6) 182/12(10)/1(x3)/--
06. Casablanca (Michael Curtiz, 1942) 140/11(7)/1(x2)/+1
07. Notorious (Alfred Hitchcock, 1946) 127/10(7)/2(x2)/+4
08. Letter from an Unknown Woman (Max Ophüls, 1948) 117/11(5)/1(x2)/--
09. Black Narcissus (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1947) 116/13(5)/1/-3
10. Beauty and the Beast (Jean Cocteau, 1946) 106/9(6)/4/-1
11. The Best Years of Our Lives (William Wyler, 1946) 99/10(4)/4/+5
12. Out of the Past (Jacques Tourneur, 1947) 96/10(4)/1/--
13. Children of Paradise (Marcel Carné, 1945) 93/7(4)/1/+7
14. Ladri di biciclette (Vittorio De Sica, 1948) 86/8(5)/2(x2)/+3
15. A Canterbury Tale (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1944) 82/6(4)/1/+11
16. Rebecca (Alfred Hitchcock, 1940) 81/7(4)/2/+2
17. The Lady Eve (Preston Sturges, 1941) 77/7(4)/3(x3)/+6
(tie) The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1943) 77/6(4)/2/+13
(tie) To Be or Not to Be (Ernst Lubitsch, 1942) 77/5(4)/1/+19
20. Day of Wrath (Carl Dreyer, 1943) 76/7(4)/3/-10
21. The Lady from Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1944) 75/7(3)/3/-8
(tie) Kind Hearts and Coronets (Robert Hamer, 1949) 75/6(4)/2/+10
23. Meet Me in St. Louis (Vincente Minnelli, 1944) 72/7(4)/6/+10
24. The Magnificent Ambersons (Orson Welles, 1942) 70/8(3)/8/-9
(tie) A Matter of Life and Death (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1946) 70/5(4)/1/+1
26. Double Indemnity (Billy Wilder, 1944) 69/6(4)/1/-2
27. Force of Evil (Abraham Polonsky, 1948) 67/5(4)/3/+13
28. Le corbeau (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1943) 66/5(3)/2/+15
29. I Know Where I'm Going! (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1945) 65/7(3)/3/-2
30. Germany, Year Zero (Roberto Rossellini, 1948) 60/5(3)/2/+7
(tie) The Maltese Falcon (John Huston, 1941) 60/5(2)/3/+11
32. My Darling Clementine (John Ford, 1946) 59/7(2)/8(x2)/-11
33. Brief Encounter (David Lean, 1945) 56/5(3)/4/-11
(tie) Hail the Conquering Hero (Preston Sturges, 1944) 56/4(3)/2(x2)/+15
35. The Big Sleep (Howard Hawks, 1946) 55/7(2)/3/-21
36. La terra trema (Luchino Visconti, 1948) 54/5(2)/3(x2)/+7
(tie) Le silence de la Mer (Jean-Pierre Melville, 1948) 54/4(4)/5(x2)/+25
38. It's a Wonderful Life (Frank Capra, 1946) 52/3(3)/2(x2)/+28
39. Stray Dog (Akira Kurosawa, 1949) 50/5(2)/6/+17
40. Went the Day Well? (Alberto Cavalcanti, 1942) 48/5(3)/6/+17
(tie) The Seventh Victim (Mark Robson, 1943) 48/4(3)/3/+9
42. The Curse of the Cat People (Gunther von Fritsch & Robert Wise, 1944) 47/5(2)/5/-8
(tie) Fantasia (James Algar et al, 1940) 47/4(3)/3/+20
(tie) Great Expectations (David Lean, 1946) 47/3(3)/4/+10
45. The Shanghai Gesture (Josef von Sternberg, 1941) 44/3(3)/5(x2)/+29
46. I Walked with a Zombie (Jacques Tourneur, 1943) 43/5(2)/6(x2)/-18
47. Shadow of a Doubt (Alfred Hitchcock, 1943) 42/6(1)/8/-28
48. Unter den Brücken (Helmut Käutner, 1946) 41/3(2)/1/+33
(tie) The Miracle of Morgan's Creek (Preston Sturges, 1944) 41/3(2)/4/+5
50. His Girl Friday (Howard Hawks, 1940) 40/6(2)/4/-19

Top 30:

01. Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941) 384/22(10)/1(x4)/--
02. Late Spring (Yasujirô Ozu, 1949) 374/20(10)/1(x2)/--
03. The Red Shoes (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1948) 369/18(9)/1(x2)/--
04. The Third Man (Carol Reed, 1949) 346/17(10)/1(x2)/--
05. Ivan the Terrible (Sergei Eisenstein, 1944/6) 319/15(10)/1(x3)/--
06. Casablanca (Michael Curtiz, 1942) 282/15(7)/1(x2)/+1
07. Black Narcissus (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1947) 259/18(5)/1/-1
08. Letter from an Unknown Woman (Max Ophüls, 1948) 245/15(5)/1(x2)/--
09. Notorious (Alfred Hitchcock, 1946) 235/11(7)/2(x2)/+2
10. Beauty and the Beast (Jean Cocteau, 1946) 227/14(6)/4/-1
11. Out of the Past (Jacques Tourneur, 1947) 203/12(4)/1/+1
12. The Best Years of Our Lives (William Wyler, 1946) 199/10(4)/4/+4
13. Ladri di biciclette (Vittorio De Sica, 1948) 184/10(5)/2(x2)/+4
14. The Lady from Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1944) 183/13(3)/3/-1
15. Day of Wrath (Carl Dreyer, 1943) 179/12(4)/3/-5
16. Children of Paradise (Marcel Carné, 1945) 176/9(4)/1/+4
17. Rebecca (Alfred Hitchcock, 1940) 161/9(4)/2/+1
18. The Magnificent Ambersons (Orson Welles, 1942) 159/10(3)/8/-3
19. The Lady Eve (Preston Sturges, 1941) 155/9(4)/3(x3)/+4
20. A Canterbury Tale (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1944) 152/9(4)/1/+6
21. My Darling Clementine (John Ford, 1946) 151/10(2)/8(x2)/--
22. The Big Sleep (Howard Hawks, 1946) 150/12(2)/3/-8
23. I Know Where I'm Going! (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1945) 145/8(3)/3/+4
24. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1943) 144/8(4)/2/+6
25. Kind Hearts and Coronets (Robert Hamer, 1949) 143/9(4)/2/+6
(tie) Double Indemnity (Billy Wilder, 1944) 143/8(4)/1/-1
27. Meet Me in St. Louis (Vincente Minnelli, 1944) 142/7(4)/6/+6
28. Shadow of a Doubt (Alfred Hitchcock, 1943) 137/11(1)/8/-9
29. A Matter of Life and Death (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1946) 136/8(4)/1/-4
30. I Walked with a Zombie (Jacques Tourneur, 1943) 127/11(2)/6(x2)/-2
(tie) To Be or Not to Be (Ernst Lubitsch, 1942) 127/5(4)/1/+6
32. Brief Encounter (David Lean, 1945) 124/10(3)/4/-10
33. Force of Evil (Abraham Polonsky, 1948) 122/6(4)/3/+7
34. Germany, Year Zero (Roberto Rossellini, 1948) 117/7(3)/2/+3
35. Le corbeau (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1943) 116/5(3)/2/+8
36. The Maltese Falcon (John Huston, 1941) 113/6(2)/3/+5
37. The Curse of the Cat People (Gunther von Fritsch & Robert Wise, 1944) 109/7(2)/5/-3
38. La terra trema (Luchino Visconti, 1948) 108/6(2)/3(x2)/+5
39. The Palm Beach Story (Preston Sturges, 1942) 106/8(2)/5/--
(tie) His Girl Friday (Howard Hawks, 1940) 106/7(2)/4/-8
41. Laura (Otto Preminger, 1944) 103/10(1)/9/-13
(tie) Hail the Conquering Hero (Preston Sturges, 1944) 103/5(3)/2(x2)/+7
43. Le silence de la Mer (Jean-Pierre Melville, 1948) 102/5(4)/5(x2)/+18
44. The Seventh Victim (Mark Robson, 1943) 100/6(3)/3/+5
(tie) Stray Dog (Akira Kurosawa, 1949) 100/5(2)/6/+12
46. Went the Day Well? (Alberto Cavalcanti, 1942) 98/5(3)/6/+11
47. Sullivan's Travels (Preston Sturges, 1941) 97/7(1)/4/--
48. Great Expectations (David Lean, 1946) 94/6(3)/4/+4
49. Begone Dull Care (Norman McLaren & Evelyn Lambart, 1949) 90/7(1)/6/+2
50. Fantasia (James Algar et al, 1940) 88/5(3)/3/+12

Top 40:

01. Citizen Kane (Orson Welles, 1941) 623/24(10)/1(x4)/--
02. Late Spring (Yasujirô Ozu, 1949) 579/21(10)/1(x2)/--
03. The Red Shoes (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1948) 557/20(9)/1(x2)/--
04. The Third Man (Carol Reed, 1949) 526/19(10)/1(x2)/--
05. Ivan the Terrible (Sergei Eisenstein, 1944/6) 482/17(10)/1(x3)/--
06. Black Narcissus (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1947) 448/19(5)/1/--
07. Casablanca (Michael Curtiz, 1942) 439/16(7)/1(x2)/--
08. Letter from an Unknown Woman (Max Ophüls, 1948) 395/15(5)/1(x2)/--
09. Beauty and the Beast (Jean Cocteau, 1946) 373/16(6)/4/--
10. Notorious (Alfred Hitchcock, 1946) 352/12(7)/2(x2)/+1
11. Out of the Past (Jacques Tourneur, 1947) 345/15(4)/1/+1
12. Day of Wrath (Carl Dreyer, 1943) 317/16(4)/3/-2
13. The Lady from Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1944) 316/15(3)/3/--
14. The Best Years of Our Lives (William Wyler, 1946) 311/12(4)/4/+2
15. Ladri di biciclette (Vittorio De Sica, 1948) 294/12(5)/2(x2)/+2
16. The Big Sleep (Howard Hawks, 1946) 292/16(2)/3/-2
17. The Magnificent Ambersons (Orson Welles, 1942) 287/16(3)/8/-2
18. Children of Paradise (Marcel Carné, 1945) 282/11(4)/1/+2
19. Rebecca (Alfred Hitchcock, 1940) 278/13(4)/2/-1
20. The Lady Eve (Preston Sturges, 1941) 263/11(4)/3(x3)/+3
21. My Darling Clementine (John Ford, 1946) 259/11(2)/8(x2)/--
22. Shadow of a Doubt (Alfred Hitchcock, 1943) 257/14(1)/8/-3
23. Double Indemnity (Billy Wilder, 1944) 248/12(4)/1/+1
24. A Matter of Life and Death (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1946) 244/12(4)/1/+1
25. A Canterbury Tale (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1944) 242/9(4)/1/+1
26. I Know Where I'm Going! (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1945) 241/10(3)/3/+1
27. I Walked with a Zombie (Jacques Tourneur, 1943) 237/11(2)/6(x2)/+1
28. Kind Hearts and Coronets (Robert Hamer, 1949) 234/10(4)/2/+3
29. The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (Michael Powell & Emeric Pressburger, 1943) 233/10(4)/2/+1
(tie) Meet Me in St. Louis (Vincente Minnelli, 1944) 233/10(4)/6/+4
31. Brief Encounter (David Lean, 1945) 232/11(3)/4/-9
32. Laura (Otto Preminger, 1944) 212/12(1)/9/-4
33. His Girl Friday (Howard Hawks, 1940) 204/12(2)/4/-2
34. To Be or Not to Be (Ernst Lubitsch, 1942) 198/8(4)/1/+2
35. Germany, Year Zero (Roberto Rossellini, 1948) 196/8(3)/2/+2
(tie) The Curse of the Cat People (Gunther von Fritsch & Robert Wise, 1944) 196/10(2)/5/-1
37. Force of Evil (Abraham Polonsky, 1948) 190/8(4)/3/+3
(tie) The Palm Beach Story (Preston Sturges, 1942) 190/9(2)/5/+2
39. La terra trema (Luchino Visconti, 1948) 187/8(2)/3(x2)/+4
40. Le corbeau (Henri-Georges Clouzot, 1943) 186/7(3)/2/+3
41. Red River (Howard Hawks, 1948) 179/11(2)/4/-6
42. The Maltese Falcon (John Huston, 1941) 178/8(2)/3/-1
43. The Seventh Victim (Mark Robson, 1943) 169/7(3)/3/+6
(tie) Sullivan's Travels (Preston Sturges, 1941) 169/8(1)/4/+4
45. Hail the Conquering Hero (Preston Sturges, 1944) 167/8(3)/2(x2)/+3
46. Scarlet Street (Fritz Lang, 1945) 165/10/11(x2)/-4
47. Meshes of the Afternoon (Maya Deren & Alexander Hammid, 1943) 163/8(1)/5/-1
48. Begone Dull Care (Norman McLaren & Evelyn Lambart, 1949) 160/7(1)/6/+3
49. White Heat (Raoul Walsh, 1949) 159/9/14(x2)/-11
50. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (John Huston, 1948) 157/8(1)/1/-5

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#713 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:12 pm

Finally

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#714 Post by swo17 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:20 pm

Well, I didn't do it entirely for kicks, but to address several people here who seem to legitimately want us to up the number of films we vote for to 75 or 100. It took me like five minutes.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#715 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:22 pm

swo17 wrote:Well, I didn't do it entirely for kicks, but to address several people here who seem to legitimately want us to up the number of films we vote for to 75 or 100. It took me like five minutes.
My first response is a flat, hardline no on upping the number of submissions, but at the same time, my 50s List is going to be a heartbreaker due to how many great great films I'm going to have to cut to get to the leanest, meanest top fifty of any List Project yet, so I can't say I wouldn't take advantage of a rule change either!

User avatar
Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#716 Post by Gregory » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:40 pm

swo17 wrote:Well, I didn't do it entirely for kicks, but to address several people here who seem to legitimately want us to up the number of films we vote for to 75 or 100...
Not that anyone was necessarily including me in that, but I was probably unclear last page when I said "if I were making a list of 75 or 100 there would have been more room for yaddah yaddah." I was just explaining why my list had so few new discoveries from others' spotlights. I don't actually think it's be better overall to vote for 75 or 100; the current lengths of the lists for the decade lists seems just right to me (in the genre one, I could think of several examples where it'd make sense to vote for fewer than 50).

User avatar
nsps
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:25 am
Contact:

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions

#717 Post by nsps » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:18 am

swo17 wrote:Not to mention To Be or Not to Be.
Don't blame me! It was in my top 10 with THE LADY EVE and I WAS A MALE WAR BRIDE.

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#718 Post by swo17 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:39 pm

My post was addressing Sheldrake's assessment that comedies hadn't placed very highly. To Be or Not to Be actually did fairly well--it looks like it was the 4th highest ranking comedy of the decade behind The Lady Eve, Kind Hearts & Coronets, and His Girl Friday.

User avatar
nsps
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:25 am
Contact:

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#719 Post by nsps » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:48 pm

Ah, I thought you were agreeing that comedy took a hit, seeing as it was 36 and still the fourth highest-ranking comedy.

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#720 Post by swo17 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:54 pm

I will grant you that it should have placed at least like 38 positions higher.

User avatar
Lighthouse
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 11:12 am

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#721 Post by Lighthouse » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:00 am

Problem with the list, as interesting as it is, is that there are still too few lists.

If I hadn't contributed several top 50 films would have been 5 to 10 places lower. Children of Paradise, still surprisingly low at # 20, would have lost 10 ranks.
86. Ossessione (Luchino Visconti, 1943) 135 wouldn't have made the list by losing 35 ranks.

Interesting to see that 7 of the 9 Val Lewton films (I have just bought the box and have started watching/re-watching them) were named, and that 4 made the list, and not in the lower ranks.

Was it already asked how many lists were provided?

1 The Third Man (Reed, 1949)
2 Children of Paradise (Carne, 1945)
3 Notorious (Hitchcock, 1946)
4 To Be or Not to Be (Lubitsch, 1942)
5 The Lady from Shanghai (Welles, 1947)
6 I Walked with a Zombie (Tourneur, 1943)
7 Casablanca (Curtiz, 1942)
8 Shadow of a Doubt (Hitchcock, 1943)
9 Ossessione (Visconti, 1943)
10 Yellow Sky (Wellman, 1948)
11 The Maltese Falcon (Huston, 1941)
12 Black Narcissus (Powell and Pressburger, 1947)
13 Ivan the Terrible (Eisenstein, 1945-46)
14 Letter from an Unknown Woman (Ophuls, 1948)
15 Fort Apache (Ford, 1948)
16 Quai des Ofevres (Clouzot, 1947)
17 My Darling Clementine (Ford, 1946)
18 Les visitors du soir (Carne, 1942))
19 Body and Soul (Rosssen, (1947)
20 Citizen Kane (Welles, 1941)
21 The Red Shoes (Powell and Pressburger, 1948)
22 Red River (Hawks, 1948)
23 Film ohne Titel (Jugert, 1948)
24 The Stranger (Welles, 1946)
25 Beauty and the Beast (Cocteau, 1946)
26 Force of Evil (Polonsky, 1948)
27 La Terra Trema (Visconti, 1948)
28 Heaven Can Wait (Lubitsch, 1943)
29 Suspicion (Hitchcock, 1941)
30 The Big Sleep (Hawks, 1946)
31 Goupi mains rouges (Becker, 1943)
32 His Girl Friday (Hawks, 1940)
33 The Magnificent Ambersons (Welles, 1942)
34 The Ox-Bow Incident (Wellman, 1943)
35 Santa Fe Trail (Curtiz, 1940)
36 The Little Foxes (Wyler, 1941)
37 Antoine et Colette (Becker, 1947)
38 Day of Wrath (Dreyer, 1943)
39 Paisa (Rossellini, 1946)
40 The Paradine Case (Hitchcock ,1947)
41 The Sea Hawk (Curtiz, 1940)
42 To Have and Have Not (Hawks, 1944)
43 White Heat (Walsh, 1949)
44 Pursued (Walsh, 1947)
45 The 7th Victim (Robson, 1945)
46 The Bicycle Thief (de Sica, 1948)
47 I Was a Male War Bride (Hawks, 1949)
48 Key Largo (Huston, 1948)
49 Brute Force (Dassin, (1947)
50 The Best Years of Our Lives (Wyler, 1946)

User avatar
swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#722 Post by swo17 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:17 pm

As I stated when I presented the results, 33 lists were submitted.

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#723 Post by zedz » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:48 pm

Lighthouse wrote:Problem with the list, as interesting as it is, is that there are still too few lists.

If I hadn't contributed several top 50 films would have been 5 to 10 places lower. Children of Paradise, still surprisingly low at # 20, would have lost 10 ranks.
86. Ossessione (Luchino Visconti, 1943) 135 wouldn't have made the list by losing 35 ranks.
This kind of reasoning is very tempting, but I think it's specious. The submission of another ten lists, say, is much more likely to leapfrog different films in front of your favourites, maybe even driving them off the list entirely.

In almost every case*, if you wanted to improve the chances of your pet films, you should be trying to reduce the number of lists collated - just so long as your list isn't one of the ones omitted!

* unless the film you think has been drastically underrated is Citizen Kane

User avatar
Lighthouse
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 11:12 am

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#724 Post by Lighthouse » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:09 am

I wasn't necessarily talking about my films. Children of Paradise is only an example.
I wasn't talking about improving "my films".

Point is only with an amount of 33 lists one more list could still have changed a lot.

User avatar
dustybooks
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:52 am
Location: Wilmington, NC

Re: 1940s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#725 Post by dustybooks » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:50 am

Bumping this after over a year to ask: has anyone here seen Alexander Korda's film Vacation from Marriage, known originally I believe as Perfect Strangers? I watched it tonight and thought it exceptionally lovely. In story, it's kind of a low-key variant on the traditional Hollywood "comedy of remarriage" but with a distinctly British twist (and I'd say it owes a lot to Rich and Strange if I believed that was well known enough to have been an influence). It's not really a straight comedy but it is quite witty, opening up as a good-natured examination of a loving couple whose life is extremely structured and routine only to be upended by the war -- which opens the world up to both of them (they both join the Navy), to the point that during a three-year separation each decides they can't go back to the drab old life and must ask for a divorce!

I've seen so many American films made during the war lately that attempt some insight about how such earth-shaking events impacted civilian life; one of the more convincing was Princess O'Rourke -- a silly romantic comedy for the most part, but imbued with a few scenes of genuine and weighty heartbreak -- and one of the more baffling was the Billy Wilder-scripted Arise My Love, which seemed to change plots and genres every five minutes or so. But none of them could match the gravity of this film. In a similar vein to The Best Years of Our Lives a year later, it uses the strife and agony of the war as a backdrop to interpersonal upheaval, and quite beautifully casts London in the aftermath of the Blitz as a metaphor for a broken-down relationship.

Surprisingly advanced in its sexual politics, I felt, it's a portrait of a real marriage between people who seem like full-bodied adults. And the casting is terrific -- Deborah Kerr and Robert Donat are perfect. At either extreme of the film, they seem like different people completely, but they sell their transitions marvelously. Glynis Johns and Ann Todd are well-used in smaller parts, too. In general I can't say enough about this -- it's probably the best older film I've discovered since seeing Bad Girl earlier this year.

Post Reply