The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

[tarpilot]

Have you seen Steele in Nightmare Castle / The Faceless Monster? I unknowingly bought multiple copies -- one under each title -- in separate thrift store raids. The cheaper and infinitely cheaper-looking package-wise of the two is I guess the more complete cut (The Faceless Monster).

[Mr Sausage]

Have you seen Steele in Nightmare Castle / The Faceless Monster? I unknowingly bought multiple copies -- one under each title -- in separate thrift store raids.

No, I haven't. It just sounded like an inferior version of the surprisingly good Antonio Margheriti film (also starring Steele), Castle of Blood. The influence of Black Sunday is obvious, and it's a bit slow moving, but boy is it lush and gothic. It drinks in its mouldering atmosphere, and the plot anticipates Bava's masterpiece Lisa and the Devil in the way it deals with the eternal repetition of the sins of the dead. Another one worth seeing, actually.

[Perkins Cobb]

For Nightmare Castle, the version to get is the remastered Severin edition from 2009, even though it is (alas) not Netflixable or Blockbusterable.

Tough genre to define, and a lot of my favorites are probably films where the element of horror is furtive or intangible (e.g., Picnic at Hanging Rock or Long Weekend or Night Tide). And then something like Psycho is a textbook horror film and yet to me it's a formal exercise by Hitchcock (that's not a dig; I love the film), so it would hardly occur to me for this list. Do I count Seconds and The Face of Another, or do they fall more into suspense or science fiction?

In terms of recommendations, The Blair Witch Project (of which I'm a fan) and The Sixth Sense (less so) seemed to kick off a wave of American horror films in the early 00s on both the micro- and macro-budget levels. I have some real favorites in there: Brad Anderson's Session 9, Mark Pellington's The Mothman Prophecies, Victor Salva's Jeepers Creepers, Jonathan Glazer's Birth, and a couple others I'm forgetting. Also from the early oughts, Marina de Van's In My Skin is the best movie Cronenberg or Polanski never made.

In terms of older stuff I have to do some more thinking, but I remember liking Blood on Satan's Claw a great deal -- it's a gothic-era horror film that feels a lot like Witchfinder General but has a creepy Lovecraftian streak running through it. William Fraker's Reflection of Fear (a recent Sony MOD release), Huyck & Katz's amazing Messiah of Evil (get the definitive Code Red restoration), and Matt Cimber's The Witch Who Came From the Sea are among the few that fuse the New Hollywood style with the horror genre. The last two are personal favorites.

[colinr0380]

Since you like The Blair Witch Project, Perkins Cobb, have you seen The Last Broadcast? Although the film is perhaps more anticipatory of the style of the faux-documentaries that accompanied The Blair Witch Project than Blair Witch itself.

[knives]

For those looking to get more into Italian horror, I'd recommend The Horrible Dr. Hitchcock/L'orribile segreto del Dr. Hichcock (Riccardo Freda, 1962). It's gaudy and stylized and has a lot of the usual gothic tropes; but what really makes it interesting is how directly it addresses the issue of necrophilia, especially for 1962! There's no prudishness or censorial reticence, although neither is the film exploitative. It just feels no need to code things. Its major theme is how psycho-sexual perversions can override one's self-control and plunge you into obsession and madness--and that's without even mentioning the supernatural element! It's far better than Freda's other early horrors (I Vampiri, Caltiki), and if you need any other reason to see it: it stars Barbara Steele.

God, this film. I still get it mixed up with Lo Spettro all of the time. Freda was great of course, but the reptition over minor things drives me crazy when talking about his movies.

Hey, I've actually watched movies for this list. Not entirely a know it all I guess.

Donovan's Brain
Ah, can't go through a horror project without a little Curt Siodmak and what better way. I'm not familiar with the source material or the other adaptations, but this is a fairly good film that goes beyond it's motions due to a winning lead performance. The film seems very concerned with the questions that it develops for it's plot device (by itself it doesn't really pose such questions). Feist and the screenwriters really know when to step back and let the characters bounce off each other and when to throw them a wrench. In this respect it reminds me a little of the Quatermass films and is about as good. Hearty recommendation even if it's going to wind up as an also ran for individual lists.

From Beyond the Grave
For some reason I was under the impression this was directed by Freddie Francis and even though it doesn't have his touch the film still winds up being great and makes me wonder why Connors wasn't a bigger force in the genre or film in general mostly sticking to teevee. This certainly wound up being the best Amicus I've seen (passing Madhouse) and not just for the cast which really does play like a who's who at times. You know you're in good luck when the opening scene has David Warner and Peter Cushing interacting. As to Cushing I really love how they made him up. He looks like he'd be just as willing to eat your children as give you a hundred dollars. He doesn't really do anything, but looms large over all of the story in the best way a framing device could. All of the stories are phenomenal by the way and placed together in a way that gives the film a much more usual and stronger structure than you'd normally find in these sorts of films. It starts off quiet in a mood setting piece of pure psychology, moves to a more traditional horror piece, and finally arriving at some levity right before the big storm. I don't think I could choose a best story out of this lot since they all work so beautifully to the end overall feeling of the movie. This film is quiet nearly perfect.

Deadly Friend
Can you believe this and the above are part of the same set? Doesn't seem logical at all. That digression out of the way god bless Wes Craven's whorish little heart. Short of Coppola is there a more erratic film maker? Fortunately this is one of the good ones. I can just imagine the producers pitching this to him too. Okay, we've got a book that would make a great Terminator rip off, but Gremlins are what the kids are after these days so could you balance both of those things in the film. Also because we're going to market this like Gremlins you can't have any nudity or cursing. Do whatever you want with the violence though. This movie is as erratic as that description sounds which makes Craven's tendency for comedy really work. Basically what I said about John Gilling (by the way I highly recommend The Gamma People for a good horrifying laugh) could fit for him too. So while the comedy can occasionally ruin his films (Last House on the Left anybody) it really works for these more out there premises. The relationship between the boy (no way is he 13) and the friend of the title (trying to avoid spoilers) is shockingly sweet even as it reminds of an other film. It's a really great glue that prevents the film from being weird for weirdness' sake. I'm not sure if it works entirely from a logical standpoint, but this is a movie about a boy genius and his robot so as long as the film makes emotional sense I'm down with it. The film does have a strong Nightmare vibe with many dream sequences in that vein, but fortunately it works to the film's advantage in a way that genuinely toys with the audience both for scares and for looking at the characters' relationships. It never leaves you on solid ground which just makes the film all the better. And yes, the infamous basketball scene is great.

[Mr Sausage]

As part of my attempt to become more familiar with HK horror, I watched some more of the films recommended in this thread: The Seventh Curse, Mr. Vampire, and Encounters of the Spooky Kind. Curse, like Boxer's Omen, is the kind of film that gleefully sidesteps everything that would typically make for good cinematic quality, but does so with such wild energy and endless invention that it's hard not to be won over. These films are crazier and more energetic than their Italian counterparts in the gross-out genre (which tend to be plodding and unimaginative). They also seem to assume the viewer already has a firm grounding in Chinese superstition and folk-lore, but part of the charm is having no sure footing in what's going on. There's a certain glee in being suddenly confronted, without any kind of preparation on behalf of the film, with a flying corpse-dragon fighting a levitating, tail-bearing foetus.

As for the other two, I liked them a lot less since so much time was given over to very forced broad comedy that irritated me. But the sheer novelty of the monsters and superstitions kept me entertained (that and the restless energy of the narratives and the fight scenes). There was one particularly beautiful moment in Mr. Vampire when a female ghost floats gracefully from a tree branch to land lightly on the back of the bicycle ridden by one of the leads. And I managed at least to recognize one of the tropes in Spooky Encounters, where someone is forced to spend successive nights in a haunted place and must use the various tricks and folk remedies he's learned to ward off the demons and spirits that continually assail him. You can find the prime example of this in Nikolai Gogol's story Viy, which like most of his early stories is a recording of traditional Ukrainian folk tales. I guess it's a common cultural inheritance.

Hopping vampires, zombies with 'simon-says' fixations, flying heads, booby-trapped buddhas--there's so much for a newcomer to appreciate. I'm sure I'll be seeing a lot more in the future.

[domino harvey]

Deadly Friend (...) And yes, the infamous basketball scene is great.

Aside from this scene and Kristy Swanson being adorable, there's not much else in this film for me to praise with a straight face. I do use the basketball scene with my students to illustrate dramatic irony and poetic justice, and it's worth owning a copy just to show it to unsuspecting kids to watch their reaction to that moment.

[knives]

It doesn't take much for me to fall in love with a good comedy-horror. I hope the other four in the set are as good. I'm assuming the Carpenter is crap because it's for teevee and loses the 2.35 that he so desperately needs. Ditto the Stone because it's Stone directing.

[domino harvey]

I have the same set. I loved Dr Giggles, but Colin just weighed in with an opposing opinion, so YMMV. I haven't seen the Hand since I was a kid but I liked it then (yet another of the weird, wildly inappropriate movies my mother exposed me to).

EDIT: Jesus, a cursory glance on Amazon shows it's being sold new by a third party fulfilled by Amazon seller for $9.99. I thought getting it for $20 was a hell of a bargain!

[knives]

I managed to get it for $7.99 which is pretty stellar. Just because the plot description reminds me of The Dentist which was the scariest movie in the world to ten year old me I have very high hopes for Dr. Giggles that it will surely never meet. Out of curiosity are there any Craven you do like? I'll admit that there's a specific sort of humour needed for enjoying him, but I always thought it was impossible to dislike New Nightmare. It would be funny if the one where a dog has a flashback does it for you (it won't).

[Mr Sausage]

It would be funny if the one where a dog has a flashback does it for you (it won't).

Ah, yes, The Hills Have Eyes 2. Make fun of that sequence all you will, it's the only reason anyone even remembers that movie exists.

The original Hills Have Eyes is the only Craven I think bears watching more than once (not much of a fan of his other films. Even the original Nightmare, which I watched again recently, was all promise and no pay-off).

[knives]

Funnily I would describe Hills the same way and honestly feel that outside of Berryman's performance the remake drastically improves on the original in every conceivable way. Goes to show how different tastes are I guess.

[Cold Bishop]

As part of my attempt to become more familiar with HK horror, I watched some more of the films recommended in this thread: The Seventh Curse, Mr. Vampire, and Encounters of the Spooky Kind... As for the other two, I liked them a lot less since so much time was given over to very forced broad comedy that irritated me

Well, if you watch a Sammo Hung film, you need to expect some very broad slapstick. The guy's films make Jackie Chan look dead-pan. One glorious exception is the Vietnam War film Eastern Condors, which manages to be the "ultimate" action film that Stallone has been trying to fake with The Expendables.

As for Wes Craven... I'm a fan of People Under the Stairs and The Serpent and the Rainbow. I've always gotten the impression of him being an exploiteer who managed to luck into being a horror icon in a very short amount of time, and he has been trying to live up (or live down) those expectations ever since.

[colinr0380]

Oh yes, both People Under The Stairs (especially with Everett McGill and Wendy Robie doing a variation on their odd couple chemistry from Twin Peaks! Plus a great labyrinthine house set) and Serpent and the Rainbow were excellent! Although here is a slightly cooler introduction to the film by Alex Cox from the Moviedrome series back in 1994!! I also think the original Scream still stands up well (though I should note that I also like the sequels too. I especially liked Hayden Panettierre in the fourth film seemingly doing a variation on the 'plucky but not a major character, so therefore expendable' Sarah Michelle Gellar role from Part 2)

Though I agree with Mr Sausage that the original Hills Have Eyes has a grubby charm that the remake lacks somehow, and it is also another key title in Dee Wallace's scream-queen filmography along with The Howling, Cujo, Critters and The Frighteners (and even more recently the Halloween remake and House of the Devil)

[domino harvey]

I have vague recollections of both People Under the Stairs and Serpent and the Rainbow from my childhood, with People a little clearer in my memory as being a little too weird for its own good (though the scene with the dog works, but doesn't any?), but I hope to revisit Serpent soon, especially since it came in one of those cheapo Universal movie sets and is thus already hanging around

[Mr Sausage]

As part of my attempt to become more familiar with HK horror, I watched some more of the films recommended in this thread: The Seventh Curse, Mr. Vampire, and Encounters of the Spooky Kind... As for the other two, I liked them a lot less since so much time was given over to very forced broad comedy that irritated me

Well, if you watch a Sammo Hung film, you need to expect some very broad slapstick. The guy's films make Jackie Chan look dead-pan. One glorious exception is the Vietnam War film Eastern Condors, which manages to be the "ultimate" action film that Stallone has been trying to fake with The Expendables.

Yeah, I was definitely expecting it. I used to be huge into martial arts films when I was in highschool, so I'm very familiar with that style of comedy. I think I tolerated it better when I was a teenager. Although the gags within the fight scenes are always a lot more amusing and inventive than the mugging nonsense used in the regular scenes.

[colinr0380]

I have vague recollections of both People Under the Stairs and Serpent and the Rainbow from my childhood, with People a little clearer in my memory as being a little too weird for its own good (though the scene with the dog works, but doesn't any?), but I hope to revisit Serpent soon, especially since it came in one of those cheapo Universal movie sets and is thus already hanging around

I liked the idea of exploring the entire house in what amounts to an extended chase sequence, from the unwanted kids locked up in the cellar to the almost fairy taled backdrop in the escape across the roof of the house. Perhaps the evil landlords actually really being canniballistic murderers and the race and class politics angle was rather blatant, but then horror trades in these larger than life ideas.

Another scene I particularly liked, though compared to the rest of the film it was quite distressing rather than knockabout fun, was the scene when Alice and Fool are recaptured and the woman proceeds to throw Alice into and get her to clean up the pool of blood from the dog, all while screaming at her about the mess she has made. A pretty upsetting sequence which takes the film into uncomfortable family dynamics territory of later films like Frontier(s) and Mum and Dad (or of course recalling the dinner sequence in Texas Chain Saw Massacre).

[tarpilot]

As part of my attempt to become more familiar with HK horror, I watched some more of the films recommended in this thread: The Seventh Curse, Mr. Vampire, and Encounters of the Spooky Kind... As for the other two, I liked them a lot less since so much time was given over to very forced broad comedy that irritated me

Well, if you watch a Sammo Hung film, you need to expect some very broad slapstick. The guy's films make Jackie Chan look dead-pan. One glorious exception is the Vietnam War film Eastern Condors, which manages to be the "ultimate" action film that Stallone has been trying to fake with The Expendables.

Yeah, I was definitely expecting it. I used to be huge into martial arts films when I was in highschool, so I'm very familiar with that style of comedy. I think I tolerated it better when I was a teenager. Although the gags within the fight scenes are always a lot more amusing and inventive than the mugging nonsense used in the regular scenes.

Definitely add the brutal Pedicab Driver to the exception list. Shit gets real

[YnEoS]

As part of my attempt to become more familiar with HK horror, I watched some more of the films recommended in this thread: The Seventh Curse, Mr. Vampire, and Encounters of the Spooky Kind... As for the other two, I liked them a lot less since so much time was given over to very forced broad comedy that irritated me

If you're preference leans more towards the more to ridiculous creature effects and less towards kung-fu-horror-comedy hybrids, I should add to my previous recommendation that A Chinese Ghost Story is filled with delightful creature effects like tree demons with gigantic tongues, and has the benefit of a much bigger budget than most HK horror flicks. Though it comes with heavy sentimentality and romance which might be equally as poisonous to some viewers as the zany low-brow kung fu slapstick that inhabits other films. I love it and it's certainly a big landmark in the genre that sparked many sequels and imitators.

[Mr Sausage]

As part of my attempt to become more familiar with HK horror, I watched some more of the films recommended in this thread: The Seventh Curse, Mr. Vampire, and Encounters of the Spooky Kind... As for the other two, I liked them a lot less since so much time was given over to very forced broad comedy that irritated me

If you're preference leans more towards the more to ridiculous creature effects and less towards kung-fu-horror-comedy hybrids, I should add to my previous recommendation that A Chinese Ghost Story is filled with delightful creature effects like tree demons with gigantic tongues, and has the benefit of a much bigger budget than most HK horror flicks. Though it comes with heavy sentimentality and romance which might be equally as poisonous to some viewers as the zany low-brow kung fu slapstick that inhabits other films. I love it and it's certainly a big landmark in the genre that sparked many sequels and imitators.

It's on my rental list for sure (I remember wanting to see this one back when I was fascinated with HK cinema).

[Mr Sausage]

Witch with the Flying Head (Lian Sing Woo, 1977). Herr Schreck brought this one to the board's attention here, and I doubt anyone who read his post could forget it. I just saw it in an unsubtitled pan-and-scan version that had the added bonus of glitching for about seven minutes half-way through, throwing off the sound by as many minutes (as if things weren't hard enough to figure out). Still worth it to experience the insanity (my go-to adjective these days it seems): snakes crawling into girl's bodies; women giving birth to snakes that then transform into people; floating head complete with spinal column and organs spitting fire at monks, shooting laser-beams, dragging old women through the air, being chased by floating serpents; jump cuts that elide years at a go without so much as a fade or a dissolve or a title card to clue you in. Nowhere near List worthy and yet totally unmissable.

[knives]

Anyone know where this film can be found if at all?

[Mr Sausage]

Anyone know where this film can be found if at all?

Wikipedia says it is currently believed to be lost, and no other site I checked on the internet is even able to list a run time.

EDIT: the essay here also says it is lost.

[knives]

Darn, I'm assuming the early German (like 1914) Hound of the Baskerville films are also lost? It's always the best sounding stories.

[Bill Thompson]

Just watched Interview With The Vampire: The Vampire Chronicles and that will definitely not be making the list. It all comes down to a lack of investment in the characters and the vampire world of Anne Rice through the visuals of Neil Jordan not appealing to me. I think it's emblematic of the problems with the film that the character of Lestat feels completely useless and yet he is a main figure in the story.