The Pre-1920s List (Decade Project Vol. 4)

An ongoing survey of the Criterion Forum membership to create lists of the best films of each decade and genre.
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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#326 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:31 am

Got another last minute list containing a handful of new orphans. This one is pretty cool: The Acrobatic Fly/The Balancing Bluebottle

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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#327 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:09 am

Thanks to everyone for your participation this round. I'll be releasing the results shortly in the next three posts. Here as usual is a guide to what the figures listed after each film represent, each separated with a slash mark:

1. Total points (50 for each #1 placement, 49 for each #2, etc.)
2. Number of lists the film appeared on (out of 16 submitted). If the film appeared in anyone's top 10, the number of top 10 appearances is also denoted in parentheses.
3. Highest placement of the film on any one list. If more than one person ranked the film this high, this is also denoted in parentheses.
4. Change in position from the 2010 list, with movements of 10 or more highlighted.

So for example, the 333/10(3)/2(x2)/-7 shown for The Outlaw and His Wife means that it scored 333 points and appeared on ten lists (and three top 10s), with two people ranking it as high as #2. The film also moved down seven positions from its placement on the 2010 list.

For the list of orphans, only figure #3 is displayed (the highest rank, not the score given).

If anyone would like me to PM them a list of how all of their picks fared in the overall tally (rather than having to scour through all of the results) it's a simple thing for me to do. Just let me know.

I'll start the 1920s thread in the next few days. In the meantime, feel free to continue discussion in this thread regarding the results of this project and to share your individual lists (including defenses of your poor-faring favorites). I'd also appreciate feedback regarding there being a second round of voting.

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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#328 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:09 am

The Pre-1920s List

01. The Oyster Princess (Ernst Lubitsch, 1919) 537/14(9)/1/+16
02. Les Vampires (Louis Feuillade, 1915) 531/14(7)/1(x4)/+3
03. Intolerance (D.W. Griffith, 1916) 467/12(7)/1/+3
04. Sir Arne's Treasure (Mauritz Stiller, 1919) 451/13(5)/1/-3
05. The Doll (Ernst Lubitsch, 1919) 402/12(4)/2/+28
06. J'accuse (Abel Gance, 1919) 399/11(6)/1/+8
07. Fantômas (Louis Feuillade, 1913) 397/12(4)/5/+8
08. Suspense (Lois Weber & Phillips Smalley, 1913) 386/12(1)/9/+3
09. The Cameraman's Revenge (Władysław Starewicz, 1912) 347/11(3)/3/+3
10. I Don't Want to Be a Man (Ernst Lubitsch, 1918) 339/10(5)/2/+42
11. The Outlaw and His Wife (Victor Sjöström, 1918) 333/10(3)/2(x2)/-7
12. Le Voyage dans la lune (Georges Méliès, 1902) 314/10(4)/1/+20
13. Broken Blossoms (D.W. Griffith, 1919) 312/9(4)/2/-10
14. The Sinking of the Lusitania (Winsor McCay, 1918) 299/9(2)/4/-7
15. After Death (Yevgeni Bauer, 1915) 291/10(3)/3/-13
16. Blind Husbands (Erich von Stroheim, 1919) 277/9(1)/7/-4
17. The Blue Bird (Maurice Tourneur, 1918) 263/7(4)/4/+6
18. When the Clouds Roll By (Victor Fleming, 1919) 258/7(2)/3/+9
(tie) A Man There Was (Victor Sjöström, 1917) 258/8(1)/3/--
20. Regeneration (Raoul Walsh, 1915) 229/8(2)/7/-11
21. Panoramic View of the Morecambe Sea Front (Sagar Mitchell & James Kenyon, 1901) 207/5(3)/4(x2)/-5
(tie) The Dying Swan (Yevgeni Bauer, 1917) 207/7(4)/3(x2)/-13
23. Præsidenten (Carl Dreyer, 1919) 205/6(1)/8/-13
24. The Mysterious X (Benjamin Christensen, 1914) 201/7(2)/2/-2
25. Fantasmagorie (Émile Cohl, 1908) 198/6(3)/2/+22
(tie) Hell's Hinges (William Hart & Charles Swickard, 1916) 198/7(2)/3/-4
27. Die Pest in Florenz (Otto Rippert, 1919) 189/6(4)/3/New
28. The Child of Paris (Léonce Perret, 1913) 184/5(2)/1/+13
29. Der Student von Prag (Paul Wegener & Stellan Rye, 1913) 183/6(1)/1/+56
30. Filibus (Mario Roncoroni, 1915) 171/5(2)/5/New
31. Rapsodia satanica (Nino Oxilia, 1917) 169/5(1)/5/+52
32. Easy Street (Charles Chaplin, 1917) 163/7/15/-7
33. The Great Train Robbery (Edwin Porter, 1903) 159/8(1)/7/+17
(tie) Cabiria (Giovanni Pastrone, 1914) 159/7(1)/6/-14
35. Il fuoco (Giovanni Pastrone, 1916) 154/4(2)/9(x2)/-10
36. For Happiness (Yevgeni Bauer, 1917) 149/4(1)/1/+2
37. The Big Swallow (James Williamson, 1901) 137/6(1)/6/+6
38. New York Subway (G.W. Bitzer, 1905) 135/4(1)/1/-1
39. Grand Display of Brock's Fireworks at the Crystal Palace (G.A. Smith, 1904) 133/5(2)/5/New
(tie) The '?' Motorist (Walter Booth, 1906) 133/5/12/-4
41. The Arrival of a Train at La Ciotat (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1896) 132/4(1)/7/+63
42. Washerwomen on the River (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1897) 131/5(1)/9/+1
43. Homunculus (Otto Rippert, 1916) 130/5/16/+4
44. Dream of a Rarebit Fiend (Edwin Porter & Wallace McCutcheon, 1906) 125/5(1)/6/+57
45. The Mystery of the Leaping Fish (John Emerson, 1916) 121/4(1)/6/+47
46. Employees Leaving the Lumière Factory (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1895) 116/4(2)/8/-1
(tie) La Cigarette (Germaine Dulac, 1919) 116/4(1)/9/New
48. One A.M. (Charles Chaplin, 1916) 113/4(1)/7/+36
49. Dickson Experimental Sound Film (William Dickson, 1894) 111/5/11/+15
50. Panoramic View, Aisle B, Westinghouse Works (G.W. Bitzer, 1904) 110/4(1)/3/+59
51. A Lively Quarter-Day (J.H. Martin, 1906) 108/4(1)/10/+9
(tie) The Bank (Charles Chaplin, 1915) 108/4/15/New
53. The Birth of a Nation (D.W. Griffith, 1915) 107/4(1)/9/-25
54. The Mystery of the Rocks of Kador (Léonce Perret, 1912) 105/3(1)/6/+12
55. The Land Beyond the Sunset (Harold Shaw, 1912) 103/4(1)/1/-24
(tie) Madame DuBarry (Ernst Lubitsch, 1919) 103/4(1)/1/New
57. Danse serpentine (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1896) 102/3(1)/7/+24
58. South (Frank Hurley, 1919) 101/5/11/-3
59. Hypocrites (Lois Weber, 1915) 100/4/17/-35
(tie) The Immigrant (Charles Chaplin, 1917) 100/5/15/-17
61. Daydreams (Yevgeni Bauer, 1915) 99/5/13/-27
62. Monkeyshines No. 1 (William Dickson & William Heise, 1890) 98/3(1)/4/+10
63. A Corner in Wheat (D.W. Griffith, 1909) 95/5/13/+13
64. Assunta Spina (Francesca Bertini & Gustavo Serena, 1915) 90/3(1)/2/New
65. Blind Justice (Benjamin Christensen, 1916) 89/3(1)/3/-36
66. The Adventurer (Charles Chaplin, 1917) 88/3(1)/10/New
67. The Abyss (Urban Gad, 1910) 86/4/13/+15
68. Child of the Big City (Yevgeni Bauer, 1914) 83/3(1)/3/-38
69. Nerven (Robert Reinert, 1919) 82/5(1)/6/+34
70. Ask Father (Hal Roach, 1919) 80/2(1)/3/+26
(tie) Le Garde-meubles automatique (Romeo Bosetti, 1912) 80/3(1)/8/-13
(tie) Gertie the Dinosaur (Winsor McCay, 1914) 80/4(1)/10/-6
73. Girls Taking Time Checks (G.W. Bitzer, 1904) 78/3(1)/3/New
74. Le Voyage à travers l'impossible (Georges Méliès, 1904) 77/5/22/+48
75. The Moving Pavement and the Electric Train (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1900) 76/2(1)/10/New
76. The Thieving Hand (J. Stuart Blackton, 1908) 75/2(1)/2/New
(tie) The Poor Little Rich Girl (Maurice Tourneur, 1917) 75/4/11/New
(tie) Judex (Louis Feuillade, 1916) 75/4/18/-4
79. The Wishing Ring (Maurice Tourneur, 1914) 73/2(1)/6/-11
(tie) Shoulder Arms (Charles Chaplin, 1918) 73/3/17/New
(tie) Twilight of a Woman's Soul (Yevgeni Bauer, 1913) 73/3/23/-40
82. Frankenstein (J. Searle Dawley, 1910) 72/4/27/-24
83. The Merry Jail (Ernst Lubitsch, 1917) 71/3/13/New
84. Falling Leaves (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1912) 69/2(1)/9/+40
85. L'inferno (Giuseppe de Liguoro, Francesco Bertolini & Adolfo Padovan, 1911) 66/4/23/+38
86. The Dragon Painter (William Worthington, 1919) 65/2/18/New
87. Figures de cire (Maurice Tourneur, 1914) 64/2/15/-3
88. The Conquest of the Pole (Georges Méliès, 1912) 61/2(1)/1/New
(tie) Bumping into Broadway (Hal Roach, 1919) 61/3/12/New
90. Tram Rides Through Nottingham (Sagar Mitchell & James Kenyon, 1902) 60/2(1)/6/New
91. Different from the Others (Richard Oswald, 1919) 59/2(1)/5/New
(tie) Tram Ride into Halifax (Sagar Mitchell & James Kenyon, 1902) 59/3(1)/8/-12
93. A Trip Down Market Street Before the Fire (Harry, Herbert, Joseph & Earle Miles, 1906) 58/2/11/New
(tie) La Lune à un mètre (Georges Méliès, 1898) 58/2/13/New
95. Behind the Screen (Charles Chaplin, 1916) 56/2(1)/4/New
(tie) Stella Maris (Marshall Neilan, 1918) 56/2(1)/6/New
97. Germinal (Albert Capellani, 1913) 55/2(1)/5/New
(tie) Where Are My Children? (Lois Weber & Phillips Smalley, 1916) 55/2(1)/8/-23
(tie) Wagon Tracks (Lambert Hillyer, 1919) 55/2/21/New
100. The Kiss in the Tunnel (G.A. Smith, 1899) 54/2(1)/8/New


Top Directors

Ernst Lubitsch (6 films, 1489 points)
D.W. Griffith (9 films, 1155 points)
Louis Feuillade (9 films, 1115 points)
Charles Chaplin (27 films, 1027 points)
Yevgeni Bauer (7 films, 951 points)
Georges Méliès (20 films, 862 points)
Louis & Auguste Lumière (12 films, 691 points)
Victor Sjöström (5 films, 654 points)
Edwin Porter (13 films, 564 points)
Lois Weber (3 films, 541 points)

Mauritz Stiller (4 films, 533 points)
Maurice Tourneur (5 films, 485 points)
Abel Gance (3 films, 454 points)
Phillips Smalley (2 films, 441 points)
Winsor McCay (4 films, 418 points)
Władysław Starewicz (3 films, 403 points)
Giovanni Pastrone (4 films, 387 points)
G.W. Bitzer (4 films, 341 points)
Sagar Mitchell & James Kenyon (3 films, 326 points)
Otto Rippert (2 films, 319 points)

Benjamin Christensen (2 films, 290 points)
Léonce Perret (2 films, 289 points)
Erich von Stroheim (1 film, 277 points)
Victor Fleming (1 film, 258 points)
William Dickson (4 films, 248 points)
G.A. Smith (4 films, 236 points)
Raoul Walsh (1 film, 229 points)
Cecil B. DeMille (7 films, 213 points)
William Hart (2 films, 208 points)
Émile Cohl (3 films, 206 points)

Carl Dreyer (1 film, 205 points)
Alice Guy-Blaché (9 films, 205 points)
Roscoe Arbuckle (7 films, 198 points)
Hal Roach (3 films, 188 points)
Paul Wegener (1 film, 183 points)
John Emerson (4 films, 182 points)
Mario Roncoroni (1 film, 171 points)
Nino Oxilia (1 film, 169 points)
Walter Booth (3 films, 167 points)
Wallace McCutcheon (4 films, 166 points)

J. Stuart Blackton (3 films, 147 points)
Segundo de Chomón (7 films, 147 points)
Richard Oswald (3 films, 144 points)
James Williamson (1 film, 137 points)
William Heise (3 films, 137 points)
Germaine Dulac (1 film, 116 points)
Urban Gad (4 films, 114 points)
Reginald Barker (3 films, 113 points)
Gustavo Serena (2 films, 111 points)
J.H. Martin (1 film, 108 points)


Image


Casualties from the 2010 List

20. Ingeborg Holm (now an also-ran)
36. The Italian (now an also-ran)
40. The Passer-By (now an orphan)
46. Bucking Broadway (now an orphan)
49. The 'Teddy' Bears (now an orphan)
50. A Day in the Life of a Coal Miner (now voteless)
52. The Invaders (now an orphan)
54. The Avenging Conscience (now voteless)
56. A Dog's Life (now an also-ran)
59. The Spiders (now an also-ran)
61. The Whispering Chorus (now an also-ran)
61. Cenere (now an also-ran)
61. Coney Island at Night (now an also-ran)
67. Children Gathering Rice Scattered by Western Women (now an orphan)
69. A Chess Dispute (now an also-ran)
70. Life of an American Fireman (now an also-ran)
71. Gretchen the Greenhorn (now voteless)
74. Leaving Jerusalem by Railway (now an orphan)
76. Civilization (now an orphan)
76. From Leadville to Aspen: A Hold-Up in the Rockies (now voteless)
79. Spring (now an orphan)
85. The Courage of the Commonplace (now voteless)
87. The Cook (now an also-ran)
88. Namo Village, Panorama Taken from a Rickshaw (now an orphan)
89. Mary Jane's Mishap (now voteless)
90. The Painted Lady (now voteless)
91. The Airship Destroyer (now an orphan)
92. The Cheat (now an also-ran)
92. Skyscrapers of New York City from the North River (now voteless)
95. Victory (now voteless)
96. La Vie du Christ (now an orphan)
96. A Desperate Poaching Affray (now voteless)
96. Revolutionary (now voteless)
100. The Country Doctor (now voteless)

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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#329 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:09 am

Also-Rans

The End of the World (August Blom, 1916) 53/3/17/New
Princess Nicotine, or: The Smoke Fairy (J. Stuart Blackton, 1909) 53/3/30/New
The Project of Engineer Pright (Lev Kuleshov, 1918) 51/2/16/New
The Cook (Roscoe Arbuckle, 1918) 51/3/23/-16
Les Chiens savants (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1902) 50/2(1)/5/New
A Life for a Life (Yevgeni Bauer, 1916) 49/2/21/New
A Dog's Life (Charles Chaplin, 1918) 49/2/23/-50
The Whispering Chorus (Cecil B. DeMille, 1918) 49/2/25/-45
The Italian (Reginald Barker, 1915) 46/2/19/-73
Life of an American Fireman (Edwin Porter, 1903) 46/2/24/-39

A Modern Musketeer (Allan Dwan, 1917) 45/2/27/New
True Heart Susie (D.W. Griffith, 1919) 44/2/12/+1
Cenere (Febo Mari, 1917) 44/2/14/-51
The Music Lover (Georges Méliès, 1903) 44/2/17/New
Male and Female (Cecil B. DeMille, 1919) 44/2/19/New
The Dancing Pig (Pathé co., 1907) 42/2(1)/10/New
The Musketeers of Pig Alley (D.W. Griffith, 1912) 42/2/14/New
The Spiders (Fritz Lang, 1919-20) 42/3/21/-57
The Bargain (Reginald Barker, 1914) 42/2/25/New
Coney Island at Night (Edwin Porter, 1905) 40/2/29/-59

A Chess Dispute (R.W. Paul, 1903) 40/3/35/-51
Eerie Tales (Richard Oswald, 1919) 39/2/26/New
The Cheat (Cecil B. DeMille, 1915) 39/3/30/-30
The Butcher Boy (Roscoe Arbuckle, 1917) 36/2/31/New
La Folie du Docteur Tube (Abel Gance, 1915) 33/3/25/-20
The Queen of Spades (Yakov Protazanov, 1916) 33/3/31/New
Tih Minh (Louis Feuillade, 1918) 31/2/33/-17
The Rink (Charles Chaplin, 1916) 31/3/34/New
The War and the Dream of Momi (Giovanni Pastrone & Segundo de Chomón, 1917) 29/3/25/New
Wintergartenprogramm (Max Skladanowsky, 1895) 26/2/37/New

The Tramp (Charles Chaplin, 1915) 25/2/31/New
Saturnino Farandola (Marcel Fabre & Luigi Maggi, 1914) 25/2/31/New
Demolition of a Wall (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1896) 25/2/33/New
L'arroseur arrosé (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1896) 24/2/28/New
What Happened on Twenty-Third Street, New York City (Edwin Porter & George Fleming, 1901) 24/2/39(x2)/New
The Ocean Waif (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1916) 23/2/35/New
The Devilish Tenant (Georges Méliès, 1909) 22/2/38/New
The Boxing Cats (Prof. Welton's) (William Dickson & William Heise, 1894) 22/3/40/New
Kid Auto Races at Venice (Henry Lehrman, 1914) 21/2/32/New
The Vagabond (Charles Chaplin, 1916) 21/2/36/New

Ingeborg Holm (Victor Sjöström, 1913) 20/2/34/-121
How a Mosquito Operates (Winsor McCay, 1912) 20/2/37/New
The Cure (Charles Chaplin, 1917) 19/2/39/New
A Trip to Mars (Holger-Madsen, 1918) 18/2/39/New
Ladies' Skirts Nailed to a Fence (Bamforth Films, 1899) 17/2/40/New
The Dragonfly and the Ant (Władysław Starewicz, 1913) 14/2/43/New
The Balancing Bluebottle (Percy Smith, 1910) 13/2/44/New
Alias Jimmy Valentine (Maurice Tourneur, 1915) 10/2/46(x2)/New

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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#330 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:09 am

Orphans

The Torture of Silence (Abel Gance, 1917) 29
L'Assommoir (Albert Capellani, 1908) 16
Lulu (Alexander Antalffy, 1917) 45
Leaving Jerusalem by Railway (Alexandre Promio, 1897) 37

Take a Chance (Alfred Goulding, 1918) 18
Look Pleasant, Please (Alfred Goulding, 1918) 14
A Gasoline Wedding (Alfred Goulding, 1918) 23

Le Moulin maudit (Alfred Machin, 1909) 39
War Is Hell (Alfred Machin, 1914) 10

At the Bal de Flore (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1900) 46
Avenue de l'opéra (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1900) 38
La Vie du Christ (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1906) 49
The Consequences of Feminism (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1906) 48
Alice Guy tourne une phonoscène (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1907) 26
Making an American Citizen (Alice Guy-Blaché, 1912) 36

He Comes Up Smiling (Allan Dwan, 1918) 30
Carnevalesca (Amleto Palermi, 1918) 37
Thais (Anton Giulio Bragaglia, 1917) 28
One Touch of Nature (Ashley Miller, 1914) 18
Richard Wagner (Carl Froelich & William Wauer, 1913) 38

The Captive (Cecil B. DeMille, 1915) 34
The Golden Chance (Cecil B. DeMille, 1915) 47
Joan the Woman (Cecil B. DeMille, 1916) 31
Old Wives for New (Cecil B. DeMille, 1918) 11

Explosion of a Motor Car (Cecil Hepworth, 1900) 36

The New Janitor (Charles Chaplin, 1914) 41
The Knockout (Charles Chaplin, 1914) 50
His Prehistoric Past (Charles Chaplin, 1914) 32
The Face on the Barroom Floor (Charles Chaplin, 1914) 43
The Property Man (Charles Chaplin, 1914) 45
A Burlesque on Carmen (Charles Chaplin, 1915) 28
A Woman (Charles Chaplin, 1915) 41
A Night Out (Charles Chaplin, 1915) 43
By the Sea (Charles Chaplin, 1915) 46
The Champion (Charles Chaplin, 1915) 47
The Pawnshop (Charles Chaplin, 1916) 27
The Fireman (Charles Chaplin, 1916) 37
The Floorwalker (Charles Chaplin, 1916) 38
Sunnyside (Charles Chaplin, 1919) 18
A Day's Pleasure (Charles Chaplin, 1919) 48

Lady Helen's Escapade (D.W. Griffith, 1909) 26
The Unchanging Sea (D.W. Griffith, 1910) 14
An Unseen Enemy (D.W. Griffith, 1912) 25

In the Land of the War Canoes (Edward Curtis, 1914) 50
Algie the Miner (Edward Warren, 1912) 41

Pan-American Exposition by Night (Edwin Porter, 1901) 14
Dog Factory (Edwin Porter, 1904) 10
The Kleptomaniac (Edwin Porter, 1905) 11
Trapeze Disrobing Act (Edwin Porter & George Fleming, 1901) 50
A Little Girl Who Did Not Believe in Santa Claus (Edwin Porter & J. Searle Dawley, 1907) 41
Three American Beauties (Edwin Porter & Wallace McCutcheon, 1906) 38
The Terrible Kids (Edwin Porter & Wallace McCutcheon, 1906) 44
The 'Teddy' Bears (Edwin Porter & Wallace McCutcheon, 1907) 30

The Magic Hoop (Émile Cohl, 1908) 48
The Hasher's Delirium (Émile Cohl, 1910) 46

Artheme Swallows His Clarinet (Ernest Servaès, 1912) 39
Als ich tot war (Ernst Lubitsch, 1916) 14
Lake Tahoe, Cal. (Essanay Co., 1916) 46
Il fauno (Febo Mari, 1917) 45

Story of a Crime (Ferdinand Zecca, 1901) 35
Le Spectre rouge (Ferdinand Zecca & Segundo de Chomón, 1907) 44

The Invaders (Francis Ford & Thomas Ince, 1912) 11
A Fool There Was (Frank Powell, 1915) 50
Fräulein Piccolo (Franz Hofer, 1915) 47
The Adventures of Pimple: The Battle of Waterloo (Fred & Joe Evans, 1913) 20

Demolishing and Building Up the Star Theatre (Frederick Armitage, 1901) 15
The Ghost Train (Frederick Armitage, 1903) 49

Harakiri (Fritz Lang, 1919) 46

Grandma's Reading Glass (G.A. Smith, 1900) 24
Let Me Dream Again (G.A. Smith, 1900) 29

San Francisco: Aftermath of Earthquake (G.W. Bitzer, 1906) 33

Namo Village, Panorama Taken from a Rickshaw (Gabriel Veyre, 1900) 18
Indochina: Children Gathering Rice Scattered by Western Women (Gabriel Veyre, 1901) 32

The Battle of the Somme (Geoffrey Malins, 1916) 27
Traffic in Souls (George Tucker, 1913) 40

Le Manoir du diable (Georges Méliès, 1896) 44
The Temptation of St. Anthony (Georges Méliès, 1898) 34
Un homme de têtes (Georges Méliès, 1898) 47
Gentleman's Hat (Georges Méliès, 1899) 24
Le Diable au couvent (Georges Méliès, 1899) 40
The Famous Box Trick (Georges Méliès, 1900) 33
Addition and Subtraction (Georges Méliès, 1900) 3
Going to Bed Under Difficulties (Georges Méliès, 1900) 29
The One-Man Band (Georges Méliès, 1900) 32
Éruption volcanique à la Martinique (Georges Méliès, 1902) 31
Le Diable noir (Georges Méliès, 1905) 16
The Mermaid (Georges Méliès, 1905) 50
Tunneling the English Channel (Georges Méliès, 1907) 9
Whimsical Illusions (Georges Méliès, 1910) 36

Maciste alpino (Giovanni Pastrone, 1916) 6
La signora delle camelie (Gustavo Serena, 1915) 30
Young Mr. Jazz (Hal Roach, 1919) 4

The Grim Game (Irvin Willat, 1919) 35
Behind the Door (Irvin Willat, 1919) 35

Winsor McCay, the Famous Cartoonist of the N.Y. Herald and His Moving Comics (J. Stuart Blackton & Winsor McCay, 1911) 32
Le Pied qui étreint (Jacques Feyder, 1916) 49
Cinderella (James Kirkwood, 1914) 49

Mr. Edison at Work in His Chemical Laboratory (James White, 1897) 21
Scene from Elevator Ascending Eiffel Tower (James White, 1900) 17
Panorama of Eiffel Tower (James White, 1900) 46

White Fawn's Devotion (James Young Deer, 1910) 40
Repression of the Macedonian People (Janaki & Milton Manaki, 1905) 12
Onésime vs. Onésime (Jean Durand, 1912) 45
Hilde Warren and Death (Joe May, 1917) 39

Wild and Woolly (John Emerson, 1917) 16
Reaching for the Moon (John Emerson, 1917) 34
Her Crowning Glory (John Emerson, 1917) 42

Bucking Broadway (John Ford, 1917) 33
El golfo (José de Togores, 1917) 22
The Dull Sword (Jun'ichi Kōuchi, 1917) 48
The Confederate Ironclad (Kenean Buel, 1912) 46
That Fatal Sneeze (Lewin Fitzhamon, 1907) 22

A Baby's Meal (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1895) 29
Quai de l'Archevêché (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1896) 35
Autruches (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1896) 36
Querelle enfantine (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1896) 43
Passage Through a Railway Tunnel (Louis & Auguste Lumière, 1898) 27

Spring (Louis Feuillade, 1909) 37
The Heart and Money (Louis Feuillade, 1912) 46
Erreur tragique (Louis Feuillade, 1913) 21
L'Agonie de Byzance (Louis Feuillade, 1913) 47
Vendémiaire (Louis Feuillade, 1918) 23

Maciste (Luigi Romano Borgnetto & Vincenzo Denizot, 1915) 34
Tillie's Punctured Romance (Mack Sennett, 1914) 47
The Star Prince (Madeline Brandeis, 1918) 50
Rose-France (Marcel L'Herbier, 1919) 43
Love Everlasting (Mario Caserini, 1914) 13
Amarilly of Clothes-Line Alley (Marshall Neilan, 1918) 40

Love and Journalism (Mauritz Stiller, 1916) 7
Thomas Graal's Best Film (Mauritz Stiller, 1917) 44
Song of the Scarlet Flower (Mauritz Stiller, 1919) 20

Der Andere (Max Mack, 1913) 32
The Undesirable (Michael Curtiz, 1915) 45
The Passer-By (Oscar Apfel, 1912) 37
The Birth of a Flower (Percy Smith, 1910) 15
Tales of Hoffmann (Richard Oswald, 1916) 5
The Delicious Little Devil (Robert Leonard, 1919) 32

Oh Doctor! (Roscoe Arbuckle, 1917) 15
The Bell Boy (Roscoe Arbuckle, 1918) 13
Moonshine (Roscoe Arbuckle, 1918) 47
Out West (Roscoe Arbuckle, 1918) 36
Back Stage (Roscoe Arbuckle, 1919) 33

'49-'17 (Ruth Ann Baldwin, 1917) 29

La Maison ensorcelée (Segundo de Chomón, 1908) 19
El hotel eléctrico (Segundo de Chomón, 1908) 41
The Legend of a Ghost (Segundo de Chomón, 1908) 24
Une excursion incohérente (Segundo de Chomón, 1909) 33
Métamorphoses (Segundo de Chomón, 1912) 27

Un amore selvaggio (Società Italiana Co., 1912) 18
Il fascino della violenza (Società Italiana Co., 1912) 30

The Heart of an Indian (Thomas Ince, 1912) 44
Civilization (Thomas Ince, Reginald Barker & Raymond West, 1915) 26

Camel Market (Unknown, 1897) 49
Elephants (Unknown, 1900) 32
Foot Juggler (Unknown, 1900) 38
Brooklyn Bridge (Unknown, 1904) 47
Coney Island (Unknown, 1904) 48

The Black Dream (Urban Gad, 1911) 42
Die Suffragette (Urban Gad, 1913) 42
Engelein (Urban Gad, 1914) 41

Girl from Stormy Croft (Victor Sjöström, 1917) 34
Ingmar's Sons (Victor Sjöström, 1919) 25

Turning the Tables or: Waiting on the Waiter (Vitagraph Co., 1908) 21

The Magic Sword (Walter Booth, 1901) 39
The Airship Destroyer (Walter Booth, 1909) 29

Das Eskimobaby (Walter Schmidthässler, 1918) 31
Annabelle Serpentine Dance (William Dickson & William Heise, 1895) 34
The Return of Draw Egan (William Hart, 1916) 41
So rächt sich die Sonne (William Wauer, 1915) 25
The Lily of Belgium (Władysław Starewicz, 1915) 9

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knives
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#331 Post by knives » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:35 am

Wow, first thanks. Second that leap at 1912 is amazing.

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#332 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:24 am

Wow, tight finish between numbers one and two, and a huge list for Lubitsch- three results in the top ten, all in the same box set! Fascinating to see a director who arguably didn't peak for another 20-30 years clean up against people like Griffith and Feuillade, who pretty indisputably peaked in this era, but I can't protest- I think I voted for five of the six of his movies that got points.

I'm glad to see that the 100th placed movie still got more than 50 points- it always adds to the feeling of success for a list when even without the orphan rule no one person could have gotten a movie on by themselves. Fascinating to see so much clustering, too- you have to go down to number 17 to reach a movie that didn't have at least half the field voting for it.

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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#333 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:34 am

matrixschmatrix wrote:I'm glad to see that the 100th placed movie still got more than 50 points
That's actually a fairly predictable function of the number of people that vote. (Note that there were 16 ballots submitted this time, compared to 14 last time.) On average, I'd say that every list submitted after the first one un-orphans about 10 films, you need about 10 lists submitted to have an overall top 100, and about 15 submitted for all films in the top 100 to have at least 50 points.

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#334 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:42 am

Haha, fair enough- I guess that's an inelegant way of saying that I'm glad we got that magic number of lists.

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Tommaso
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#335 Post by Tommaso » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:56 pm

Thanks for the hard work, swo! And it's a fine result in my view, too.
matrixschmatrix wrote:Fascinating to see so much clustering, too- you have to go down to number 17 to reach a movie that didn't have at least half the field voting for it.
What I find interesting is to calculate the average points that a film scored only from those who voted for it. For instance, 14 people voted for "The Oyster Princess" which got 537 points all in all, which means an average of 38.36 points per voter. By contrast "Morecambe Sea Front" got 207 points from only 5 voters, which yields an average of 41.4 points. Theoretically one could argue that "Morecambe" has a slightly more 'enthusiastic' group of 'followers'.

Not sure whether this is of any significance - after all I voted for both and placed the Lubitsch higher on my list than the M&K -, at least not with those two films which were easily and generally available. But I wonder, for instance, where "Die Pest in Florenz" might have placed if the film (or others) had an official release and more people could have seen it.

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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#336 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:10 pm

Tommaso wrote:What I find interesting is to calculate the average points that a film scored only from those who voted for it. For instance, 14 people voted for "The Oyster Princess" which got 537 points all in all, which means an average of 38.36 points per voter. By contrast "Morecambe Sea Front" got 207 points from only 5 voters, which yields an average of 41.4 points. Theoretically one could argue that "Morecambe" has a slightly more 'enthusiastic' group of 'followers'.
But what if Morecambe Sea Front just missed several people's lists, perhaps falling in the #51-60 range? These people are then "helping out" your statistic by rating the film lower, which is counterintuitive. I think it's more meaningful to simply observe the number of top 10 placements and the highest ranking to assess enthusiasm, which is why I display those statistics.

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#337 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:20 pm

Interesting how little vote splitting there is for Mitchell and Kenyon- for guys who made dozens of very similar works, they have exactly three films voted for, and all three placed.

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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#338 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:22 pm

That is interesting, especially since I believe only one of them was ever brought up here.

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Tommaso
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#339 Post by Tommaso » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:11 pm

Doesn't that have its roots in the last round of listmaking? I remember vaguely that somehow people informally agreed on voting for "Morecambe" as one of the most impressive M&K films in order to avoid vote-splitting and get them on the final list.

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zedz
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#340 Post by zedz » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:22 pm

The Mystery of the Leaping Lubitsch: A very impressive result, but weren't all those films readily available last time around? (The Kino set came out in 2007.) Was it just the upgrade to BluRay that gave them so much traction?

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Tommaso
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#341 Post by Tommaso » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:36 pm

Perhaps it's just about how well the Lubitsch films hold their ground over time. For me, there have been many films that impressed me very much at a first time viewing, but very few of them felt as great to me at a second, third, or even fourth viewing as those three Lubitsch films that made the Top 10 this time around.

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#342 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:48 pm

That is strange, I had just assumed the box hadn't come out yet then. I can't imagine the blu set would have made all that much difference, as it only came out last month and thus wasn't available for the bulk of the viewing time for this round. For me, though, the movies in that set in particular were like an oasis of fast moving, easy watches in a list where I was mostly on wonderful but ponderous stuff like Intolerance or beautiful but grim stuff (like virtually everything Scandinavian.) I'm looking forward to finishing out the set for the 20s list. All three of them from that set made my top 10 as well (though I had Die Puppe in my top spot) and they're almost certainly the first things I would show other people from the era, except maybe Hell's Hinges.

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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#343 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:54 pm

Tommaso wrote:Doesn't that have its roots in the last round of listmaking? I remember vaguely that somehow people informally agreed on voting for "Morecambe" as one of the most impressive M&K films in order to avoid vote-splitting and get them on the final list.
Well I certainly remember lubitsch accusing us of having done that.

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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#344 Post by denti alligator » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:58 pm

knives wrote:Wow, first thanks. Second that leap at 1912 is amazing.
Maybe next time around we should do the teens and have a pre-1910 list?

I wanted to contribute, but just lost track of time. However, my no. 1 probably would have been Oyster Princess (a pitch-perfect film), so there you go! Nice work, swo. I will try to contribute the next round.

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swo17
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#345 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:26 pm

Even though the results are backloaded, I don't think there are any early films that are failing to get a fair shake here like they would if we did the silent era as a whole.

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knives
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#346 Post by knives » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:40 pm

I'll be honest a say ugh to a pre-'10s list. There's a good reason why only five made me list. Speaking of:
1.Sir Arne's Treasure
2.I Don't Want to be a Man
3.The Dying Swan (Bauer)
4.Broken Blossoms
5.The Vampires
6.The Mystery of the Rocks of Kador
7.The Oyster Princess
8. J'Accuse
9.Intolerence
10.The Blue Bird (Tourneur)
11.The Invaders (Ford)
12. Blind Husbands
13.The Sinking of the Lusitania
14.Look Pleasant, Please (Goulding)
There's so much bad slapstick in this era that I'm surprised a little that this was orphaned, but I suppose it is somewhat hidden from the average viewer. It's also nice to think that I may have finally figured out what makes people like Lloyd.

15.The Cameraman's Revenge
16.Engineer Prite's Project
17.The End of the World
18.The President
19.The Italian (Barker)
20.The Doll (Lubitsch)
21.Wagon Tracks
22.One A.M.
23.A Gasoline Wedding
24.The Life of an American Fireman (Porter)
25.The Bargain (Barker)
26.The Outlaw and His Wife
27.Cabiria
28.L'enfant de Paris (Perret)
29.The Airship Destroyer (Booth)
30. Gertie the Dinosaur (McCay)
31.Joan the Woman
DeMille is another filmmaker who I'm only now really gaining an appreciation for with this excellently showing off what makes him an attractive exploiter. It looks like there was at least a little vote splitting going which I guess is only fair for the era.

32.The Delicious Little Devil
33. After Death (Bauer)
34.Easy Street
35. The Great Train Robbery
36.Rapsodia Santanica
37.How a Mosquito Opperates
38.Avenue de l'opera (Guy, 1900)
39.Male and Female
40.Regeneration (Walsh)
41.Corner in Wheat
42.The Spiders (Lang)
43.The Grasshopper and the Ant (Starewicz)
44.The Heart of an Indian (Ince & Ford)
45.La folie du Docteur Tube
46.True Heart Susie
47.The Agony of Byzantium (Feulliade)
48.The Dull Sword (Kouchi)
49.The War and the Dream of Momi
50.The Merry Jail

It's pretty different from my old submission with a lot of films changing for me over that time plus a lot of new great films. It really helps to make me think what a radically different film watcher I am now from then.

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Saturnome
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#347 Post by Saturnome » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:51 pm

I had difficulty judging the trick films, experimental and actuality shorts against the feature length films, but I wouldn't be able to make two top 50.
Wish I had seen more pre 1910s shorts, I barely know where to look at. It's too late, but I loved The Acrobatic Fly!

I also wish I had more time to write on more films, but I only have internet at my studio these days. A last minute discovery was The Mystery of the Rocks of Kador, which I would have liked to write a bit about.

I'm so glad Filibius made the top 30 though!

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#348 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:05 pm

Well hell, if we're doing it let's do it

1. Les Vampires Louis Feuillade 1915
2. Intolerance D.W. Griffith 1916
3. Hell's Hinges Charles Swickard 1916
4. J'Accuse Abel Gance 1919
5. The Puppet Ernst Lubitsch 1919
6. Cabiria Giovanni Pastrone 1914
7. The Blue Bird Maurice Tourneur 1918
8. The Oyster Princess Ernst Lubitsch 1919
9. The Cigarette Germaine Dulac 1919
10. The Adventurer Charles Chaplin 1917
11. Suspense Lois Weber 1913
12. The Outlaw and his Wife Victor Sjöström 1918
13. Regeneration Raoul Walsh 1915
14. The Mysterious X Benjamin Christensen 1914
15. Fantomas Louis Feuillade 1913
16. The Cameraman's Revenge Wladyslaw Starewicz 1912
17. The Sinking of the Lusitania Windsor McCay 1918
18. The Land Beyond the Sunset Harold M. Shaw 1912
19. The President Carl Th. Dreyer 1919
20. After Death Yevgeni Bauer 1915
21. The Spiders Fritz Lang 1919
22. A Man There Was Victor Sjöström 1917
23. The Wishing Ring Maurice Tourneur 1914
24. Easy Street Charles Chaplin 1917
25. I Wouldn't Want to be a Man Ernst Lubitsch 1918
26. Wagon Tracks Lambert Hillyer 1919
27. Blind Husbands Erich von Stroheim 1919
28. Sir Arne's Treasure Mauritz Stiller 1919
29. Blind Justice Benjamin Christensen 1916
30. A Modern Musketeer Allan Dwan 1917
31. The Queen of Spades Yakov Protazanov 1916
32. Shoulder Arms Charles Chaplin 1918
33. Bucking Broadway John Ford 1917
34. The Captive Cecil B. DeMille 1915
35. Madame DuBarry Ernst Lubitsch 1919
36. Whimsical Illusions Georges Méliès 1910
37. Frankenstein J. Searle Dawley 1910
38. Broken Blossoms D.W. Griffith 1919
39. The End of the World August Blom 1916
40. The Mystery of the Leaping Fish John Emerson 1916
41. The Student of Prague Paul Wegener 1913
42. The Devilish Tenant Georges Méliès 1909
43. The Dying Swan Yevgeni Bauer 1917
44. The Poor Little Rich Girl Maurice Tourneur 1917
45. The Undesirable Michael Curtiz 1915
46. Alias Jimmy Valentine Maurice Tourneur 1915
47. A Plague in Florence Otto Ripert 1919
48. The Rink Charles Chaplin 1916
49. Girls Taking Time Checks G.W. Bitzer 1904
50. The Star Prince Madeline Brandeis 1918

As far as I recall I've already written up literally my entire top ten and all of the orphans I care about, so I don't really have much else to add. Somewhat interestingly, I saw all of the top 25 (well, or all but one, as I didn't see Fantasmagorie) but only 56 of the overall top 100- not sure if that's just a function of me not going in as hard on the actualities as on the features or because I didn't know what people were watching beyond that.

(edit: it turns out I had seen Fantasmagorie, for the animation project I think, but I'd totally forgotten about it. Which is a shame, as I probably would have voted for it if I had remembered it.)

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TMDaines
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#349 Post by TMDaines » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:10 am

Thanks, swo17. I understand
swo17 wrote:Casualties from the 2010 List

67. Children Gathering Rice Scattered by Western Women (now voteless)
and
swo17 wrote:Orphans

Indochina: Children Gathering Rice Scattered by Western Women (Gabriel Veyre, 1901) 32
to be one and the same. I voted for it this time.

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Minkin
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Re: Pre-1920s List Discussion and Suggestions

#350 Post by Minkin » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:37 am

Thanks for all the great work Swo!

I must say, that I'm absolutely speechless that so many of my orphans were somehow rescued on this second round (thus I whole-heartedly endorse the 2nd round option on these decade lists). I didn't even make any backroom deals! I don't know who to thank (though I can certainly thank matrixschmatrix + 1other person for saving Girls Taking Time Checks), but thanks to all who rescued many of my films (somehow my top ten survived). I didn't have much time to watch things this week, otherwise I'd have replaced even more of my orphans with films other people brought up.

I'll post my top ten (bold), orphans (red) and films which only got two votes (Blue).

01 A la conquête du pôle (1912, Georges Méliès)
It was both Nosferatu and this film that led to my exploration and love of cinema. I still find the ice monster to be one of Melies' best creations. Throw in the plane ride past the living constellations; how they throw snowballs at the monster; the way they all get glued onto the magnetic North Pole, etc - I just love it.
02 Die Austernprinzessin (1919, Ernst Lubitsch)
No, I don't own the blu-ray set, but I went through the MoC Lubitsch set when it came out and its difficult not to fall in love with these films (with a few Sumurun exceptions).
03 Girls Taking Time Checks (G.W. Bitzer, 1904)
Thanks for Matrix +whoever else saved this. Glad one of my two writeups for this project paid off!
04 Die Puppe (1919, Ernst Lubitsch)
05 Anders als die Andern (1919, Richard Oswald)
Very surprised that this only got one other vote! Nearly 100 years later, and society is still dealing with these same issues; we still rarely have films as sympathetic. Then add in the whole lecture portion! (I love these mixes of documentary w/ narrative - like Haxan or In Danger and Deep Distress). Its an absolutely wonderful film, and I would've promoted it further if I'd known it wouldn't have been as seen/voted. If a film from 100 years ago can still be as relevant and topical today..
06 Stella Maris (1918, Marshall Neilan)
Probably the only moralizing Pickford film I can stand, but this is really a beautiful film. It also helps that after watching the film for the first time, I found out that the backyard paradise scenes were filmed at the OLD Busch Gardens in Pasadena. Busch offered the land to Pasadena, who rejected it - thus it turned into a housing development in the 60s, but the whole area is littered with odd reminders of the Gardens: fountains, stone work, etc. As it turns out, the old mill house that's in the film still survives! Its in someone's back yard. When I visited the area a few years ago, the owner was out back and invited me over to take a look at the large structure just sitting in their backyard (they weren't aware of Stella Maris though). So perhaps this little adventure has heightened my appreciation for the film, but its still a great one never-the-less. Here's a Huell episode about the Busch Gardens area (+shows the mill)
07 Grand Display of Brock's Fireworks (G.A. Smith, 1904)
08 The Kiss in the Tunnel (1899, George Albert Smith)
Happy that my last minute plea saved this!
09 A Trip to the Moon (1902, Georges Méliès)
10 The Dancing Pig (Pathé co., 1907)
Glad someone else found this as strangely entertaining that I did!
11 A Trip Down Market Street Before the Fire (Harry, Herbert, Joseph & Earle Miles, 1906)
13 La lune à un mètre (1898, Georges Méliès)
14 Pan-American Exposition by Night (1901, Edwin S. Porter)
15 Oh Doctor! (1917, Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle)
18 The Dragon Painter (1919, William Worthington)
Surprised by the poor showing here, as its readily available (from Milestone) and quite ahead of its time.
19 La maison ensorcelée (1908, Segundo de Chomón)
20 The Adventures of Pimple: The Battle of Waterloo (1913, Fred + Joe Evans)
Only available at the BFI (perhaps the Iplayer as well?), but its a fun anti-French little comedy
21 Turning the Tables or: Waiting on the Waiter (Vitagraph Co., 1908)
Yeah, this is a blatant ripoff from like a decade later, but I always loved this version over the more famous one.
22 That Fatal Sneeze (1907, Lewin Fitzhamon)
29 Repas de bébé (1895, Louis Lumière)
30 He Comes Up Smiling (1918, Allan Dwan)
Douglas Fairbanks slapstick which works surprisingly well!
31 Eruption volcanique a la Martinique (1902, Georges Méliès)
32 Kid Auto Races at Venice (1914, Henry Lehrman)
33 Back Stage (1919, Roscoe 'Fatty' Arbuckle)
35 The Grim Game (1915, Irvin Willat)
The Houdini film - which was fairly recently rediscovered +aired on TCM in the full version (the Kino set just has a few minutes)
36 Explosion of a Motor Car (1900, Cecil M. Hepworth)
37 Wintergartenprogramm (1895, Max Skladanowsky)
39 What Happened on Twenty-third Street, New York City (1901, Edwin S. Porter)
40 Ladies' Skirts Nailed to a Fence (Bamforth Films, 1899)
41 El hotel eléctrico (1908, Segundo de Chomón)
45 How a Mosquito Operates (1912, Winsor McCay)
46 Lake Tahoe, Cal. (Essanay Co., 1916)
From the Treasures of the West set.

Thanks to everyone and see you in the 20s

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