The Future of Home Video

Discuss North American DVDs and Blu-rays or other DVD and Blu-ray-related topics.
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FrauBlucher
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#376 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:01 am

Yes

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McCrutchy
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#377 Post by McCrutchy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:01 pm

I get sad now when I read awesome archival news stories like this one about Disney's Pinocchio coming to VHS in 1985. I mean, ignore the fact that we now know VHS was a terrible format, but it was exciting to be methodically overjoyed by one or a handful of titles you were going to own in the coming months.

There are also some really salient points in that article. For example, it is crazy how in 1983, Disney was determined not to put classic films onto sell-through tapes, but by 1985, there they were with multiple titles out for rental, and then their first classic title for sale. And it's crazy how many copies would be sold of their later tapes. Within ten years, they would go from selling 600,000 Pinocchio tapes, to selling 50 million tapes of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs in 1994, with some 20 million or more in the USA. I can't even fathom any one title moving 20 million copies in a year--maybe a few hundred DVD titles managed that (namely Disney/Pixar films), but it must have been over the span of a few years.

It's sad that the most high-profile (if not profitable) era for home video was during its worst format. By the time DVD fully supplanted VHS around 2002-2003, DVD was already about box sets and seasons of TV shows and unending releases at relatively cheap prices. Content was already being drastically cheapened, and there was less and less time to revel in each individual title.

Obviously, streaming is even worse, as it virtually encourages you to see all titles as the same disposable thing in differently pretty "packages".

I doubt physical media will ever go away in my lifetime (because I won't pay for anything else), but I hope someday, we can have a resurgence. If not the early VHS era of fawning over individual titles, then at least the early DVD years. If vinyl can do it, than so can Blu-ray/UHD Blu-ray.

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Big Ben
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#378 Post by Big Ben » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:11 pm

I would imagine it had to do with the fact that it was affordable to have VCR and the films being released were good. Like anything that's hot it of course did well. And VHS is only bad in retrospect. At the time that was the absolute best a film would look at your home at the time and it's only been supplanted now because Blu-Ray is such a vast improvement. Ultimately however the fate of physical media will be determined by what distributors do with the films they own. In the future it may be as simple as downloading a massive collection of Disney films in high quality because the device they're stored in has a ton of storage space. I can tell you that I have to be careful with what I buy now because I simply don't have the space in my home (I'm 26).

I don't think physical media is going to go away either but I also think the days of having a massive collection of films in storage cases will become wildly popular again.

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MichaelB
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#379 Post by MichaelB » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:21 pm

I'm reasonably confident that Blu-ray as a connoisseur's format has many more years left in it. The number of copies that have to be sold in order to cover costs isn't that high (low four figures, typically) and provided there are some solid hits to counterbalance the inevitable risk-taking disappointments, I don't see any reason why things can't continue as they are well into the 2020s if not further.

Blu-ray has never been a huge commercial deal in the UK (certainly not compared with the US or Germany), but paradoxically it has one of the strongest boutique-label sectors.

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movielocke
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The Future of Home Video

#380 Post by movielocke » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:01 pm

It is worth remembering that VHS was popular not just because you could use it to rent or own movies. People did do both, and loved it for that.

But our families, and millions of other families, VCR was dedicated to recording tv and time shifting when we watched something.

We didn't record everything, it was still fairly selective, often special events and sometimes the weekly shows we didn't want to miss, and we recorded movies fairly regularly, often more often than we rented--recorded off hbo return of the Jedi and empire strikes back, or recorded off Disney channel Swiss family Robinson or old yeller spring immediately to mind. And we had all the Christmas classics recorded off broadcasts (watching the eighties commercials in the nineties was half the fun!)

When DVRs became a standard part of every cable and satellite package I think that is a crucial tipping point to DVD finally beating VHS as a format. because once they had DVRs people were more willing to give up the superior VCR feature sets (recording) for a "lesser" new format that was playback only. It was sort of the "iPhone" of its day, pay more for less features but SHINY!
Last edited by movielocke on Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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tenia
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#381 Post by tenia » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:02 pm

McCrutchy wrote:It's sad that the most high-profile (if not profitable) era for home video was during its worst format. By the time DVD fully supplanted VHS around 2002-2003, DVD was already about box sets and seasons of TV shows and unending releases at relatively cheap prices. Content was already being drastically cheapened, and there was less and less time to revel in each individual title.
It's intesting, because what I recall most DVD for was all the "Collector 2-DVD releases" that often included hours of in-depth extras and making of. Shooting diaries like Rob Zombie ones basically got born with the format, while it allowed people like Jérôme Wybon in France to go back in the archives and include stuff that wouldn't have been included otherwise, especially not on tape.

Sadly, later in the days, these "2-DVD releases" ended up being overdone, with many releases just throwing an extra disc with only a handful of short meaningless PR extras just to make you pay a bit more (Disney still does today with their 3-discs BR releases, where one of the disc only has 20 minutes of extras on it), but fortunately, independant labels got this then, and still now.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#382 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:16 pm

McCrutchy wrote: It's sad that the most high-profile (if not profitable) era for home video was during its worst format.
You're right but thankfully the current film restoration renaissance is happening during the bluray era. (Or is it thanks to the bluray)

I'd like to raise a glass to Mr Redman and his proclamation of doom being a total bust.

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MichaelB
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#383 Post by MichaelB » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:22 pm

tenia wrote:Sadly, later in the days, these "2-DVD releases" ended up being overdone, with many releases just throwing an extra disc with only a handful of short meaningless PR extras just to make you pay a bit more (Disney still does today with their 3-discs BR releases, where one of the disc only has 20 minutes of extras on it), but fortunately, independant labels got this then, and still now.
I've never produced a barebones disc, and I've hardly ever produced one with no newly-commissioned content. And if the extras spill over onto a second disc, I don't think it's ever run less than two hours.

Although one major change over the last decade or so that's helped facilitate this is that it's much easier to create high-quality high-definition content on a very low budget. The first extras that I produced in 2006 involved hiring a small crew (cameraman, sound recordist, editor), but now the vast majority are one-man shows, which is much more work for me (understatement), but costs are far lower and I also relish the amount of control that I have - particularly at the editing stage, as I can tweak things for as long as I like (final deadline permitting) without worrying about running up a vast edit suite bill. I also generally do my own SDH subtitling, which also helps keep costs down as that can be a surprisingly hefty expense as well.

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colinr0380
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#384 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:56 am

movielocke wrote:It is worth remembering that VHS was popular not just because you could use it to rent or own movies. People did do both, and loved it for that.

But our families, and millions of other families, VCR was dedicated to recording tv and time shifting when we watched something.
That is one of the reasons I still have a wall of VHS tapes of things recorded over the 90s and 2000s before moving to DVD-Rs. I'd always agree in wanting to see films in the best possible quality and that DVD (and eventually Blu-ray) surprassed VHS in many ways, but I'd never get rid of my old library as in the very first instance I think it is important to have an opportunity to see a film at all, then after that basic is covered it is possible to be concerned about getting it in best quality after that. For something like Alien I probably don't need my VHS tape of at all any more now that I have it on both DVD and Blu-ray (though I have held onto my widescreen VHS tape of it for sentimental reasons mostly, it being a defining Christmas present that sort of gave me my parent's permission, as a normally rule-abiding 13 year old, permission to watch the 18-rated film, as well as go off on into the 'adult section' of cinema!), but for years my recorded-from-television VHS tape was the only way I had to watch The Devils, or until this year's Criterion release, The Lodger!

Even now if I want to see the 'un-tinkered with by George Lucas to add extra unnecessary CGI' version of THX-1138, I have to go back to my 1995 recording of a TV broadcast of it!

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McCrutchy
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#385 Post by McCrutchy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:35 pm

tenia wrote:It's intesting, because what I recall most DVD for was all the "Collector 2-DVD releases" that often included hours of in-depth extras and making of. Shooting diaries like Rob Zombie ones basically got born with the format, while it allowed people like Jérôme Wybon in France to go back in the archives and include stuff that wouldn't have been included otherwise, especially not on tape.

Sadly, later in the days, these "2-DVD releases" ended up being overdone, with many releases just throwing an extra disc with only a handful of short meaningless PR extras just to make you pay a bit more (Disney still does today with their 3-discs BR releases, where one of the disc only has 20 minutes of extras on it), but fortunately, independant labels got this then, and still now.
Right, and that's what brought most of those releases down. After 2006, you could tell that the economic collapse and the need to focus on both the Blu-ray and HD DVD formats meant that truly comprehensive 2xDVD sets from Hollywood started to get poorer in quality. By 2008, I was into Blu-ray, and for a short and wonderful time, it was treated pretty well, but it was still very expensive to produce, so special editions were more or less limited to absolute prestige titles. Then we got a bunch of "advancements" like BD-Live, digital copies (on discs), and finally this slew of streaming services, which diverted time and money away from resuming quality Special Editions on Blu-ray, even as the cost of the format seemed to decrease, and boutique labels were becoming more prominent in the format.

So, to me, what we have now is possibly akin to the early days of DVD, where DVD was seen by the public as an expensive format. However, in some sense, we have also resumed the ways of the Laserdisc, in that it is licensees and licensors who are driving catalog titles, while the studios focus almost entirely on new release films. However, Blu-ray certainly has way more general appeal than LDs ever did, and there is also the fact that for certain kinds of films and TV shows (HBO), Blu-ray is now seen as the "standard" format, something Laserdisc never achieved except perhaps in Japan. And it is telling, too, that Ultra HD Blu-ray, the "offspring" format of Blu-ray, has become a sort of new Laserdisc-level format already, and looks poised to grow beyond what Laserdisc did, as well.

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movielocke
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#386 Post by movielocke » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:20 pm

For me I would say that consumers experienced "features fatigue" around 2006-2008. Where you knew how all of them were going to be and you just stopped caring entirely. At least from major studio releases. I remember I watched all the features on the first lord of the rings extended and I don't think I watched any on the third extended edition, for example.

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tenia
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#387 Post by tenia » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:58 am

movielocke wrote:For me I would say that consumers experienced "features fatigue" around 2006-2008. Where you knew how all of them were going to be and you just stopped caring entirely. At least from major studio releases. I remember I watched all the features on the first lord of the rings extended and I don't think I watched any on the third extended edition, for example.
It's about right, but I don't think that's what DVD will be remembered for (down-ish releases), especially since the indies got it from there and indeed, the first BD releases weren't particularly feature loaded (but instance tried to push the stupid BD-Live feature that turned out to be pretty much DOA).

But McCrutchy's right, we're probably back to Physical Video Bliss currently.

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TMDaines
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#388 Post by TMDaines » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:27 am

MichaelB wrote:Blu-ray has never been a huge commercial deal in the UK (certainly not compared with the US or Germany), but paradoxically it has one of the strongest boutique-label sectors.
Have you got anything to back this up? I always saw Blu-ray as more niche in Germany than here.

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MichaelB
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#389 Post by MichaelB » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:13 pm

Last time I checked, the top three Blu-ray markets in the world were the US, then Japan, then Germany.

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hearthesilence
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#390 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:26 pm

Just out of curiosity, is that from sheer sales numbers, or is that based on proportional data (i.e. taking into account the size of the market/population)?

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MichaelB
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#391 Post by MichaelB » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:32 pm

I always assumed sales numbers.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#392 Post by Werewolf by Night » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:41 pm

Image

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domino harvey
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#393 Post by domino harvey » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:43 pm

Wow, no wonder so many movies get releases in Germany and nowhere else

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MichaelB
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#394 Post by MichaelB » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:54 pm

Yes, thanks for that - that was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Germany overtook the UK five years ago and the gap has been widening ever since - I think we've adopted streaming services in rather greater numbers.

And the chart also explains why eastern European Blu-rays are (a) as rare as hen's teeth (especially local product), and (b) so much more expensive than their DVD equivalents that I often favour the latter.

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#395 Post by Werewolf by Night » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:56 pm

I couldn't find equivalent numbers for Japan, but Frozen sold about 2.3 million Blu-rays in 2014. The next highest seller was Puella Magi Madoka Magica: Rebellion with 154,000 sold.

Dentsu. Leading Blu-ray titles in Japan as of December 2014, by unit sales (in thousands). https://www.statista.com/statistics/688 ... nit-sales/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (accessed December 6, 2017).

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Re: The Future of Home Video

#396 Post by Werewolf by Night » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:01 pm

Here's a couple more, why not:

Image

Image

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colinr0380
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#397 Post by colinr0380 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:48 pm

domino harvey wrote:Wow, no wonder so many movies get releases in Germany and nowhere else
I think it is an absolute travesty that Germany has a Blu-ray release of Bone Alone and we have to make do with a DVD!

(It was either that joke or something about the sheer number of Schoolgirl Report films)
Last edited by colinr0380 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#398 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:27 pm

Werewolf by Night wrote:Here's a couple more, why not:

Image

Image
While bluray sales have gone up over the years, Dvd has gone down. Are we at the point where bluray is catching and passing dvd sales at least in the UK?

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domino harvey
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Re: The Future of Home Video

#399 Post by domino harvey » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:39 pm

colinr0380 wrote:
domino harvey wrote:Wow, no wonder so many movies get releases in Germany and nowhere else
I think it is an absolute travesty that Germany has a Blu-ray release of Bone Alone and we have to make do with a DVD!

(It was either that joke or something about the sheer number of Schoolgirl Report films)
I feel like this is the wrong link, though perhaps Bone Alone's references to Home Alone are more esoteric than I realized

Werewolf by Night

Re: The Future of Home Video

#400 Post by Werewolf by Night » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:06 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:While bluray sales have gone up over the years, Dvd has gone down. Are we at the point where bluray is catching and passing dvd sales at least in the UK?
It's hard to say from the data above (especially since the last year for the Blu-ray only sales figures is 2013), but I would think DVD is still outselling Blu-ray. In 2013, 119 million units of "film on video" were sold, only 18.8 million (15.79%) of them Blu-rays. It would have to be a wild jump in the last four years to see Blu-ray outsell DVD, and the slowing rate of growth of Blu-ray sales from 2010-2013 doesn't seem to indicate a jump of that order in 2013-2016.

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