Technical Issues and Questions

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kekid · #26 Post by **kekid** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:04 pm

I just received Mahler Symphony 5 conducted by Abbado on EuroArt DVD. A unique feature on this DVD is supposed to be a "conductor's view" through second camera angle. During play, I experienced two problems: (1) there is a camera graphic (presumably suggesting this second angle feature) constantly on the screen that I could not get rid of, no matter what I tried. I have two Pioneer DVD players. On one of them this appears as an individual graphic. On the other it appears on a blue band that runs across the screen. The presence of these things is so annoying, despite the fact that both the image and sound on the disc are wonderful, that I turned it off in a few minutes. (2) when I switch the angle, I do not get the conductor's perspective, so the angle feature does not seem to work on this DVD. It has worked on other DVDs that have multi-angle feature. Can someone tell me if we have (1) a defective disc, or(2) a disc / player incompatibility? Any suggestions to figure out the problem will be appreciated.

Godot · #27 Post by **Godot** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:35 pm

It seems like every tv and dvd player I use ..., the right side of the image is clipped an inch or two. Messing with settings doesn't seem to do anything. Is this a common problem? Any way to fix it?

Are you familiar with the concept of overscan? Sounds like it is a combination of this plus a mis-centered image in the factory settings. I have the same on one of my TVs (image is centered about 5% to the right).

It may be corrected by playing with your television root setting, though this is notoriously a Pandora's Box (since many of the 60+ characteristics on a modern direct-view CRT are interrelated). Just for kicks I delved into the settings on my Sony XBR and quickly found myself deep down a rabbit hole; if you do wind up experimenting, always write down the settings from the root menu before adjusting them.

-Rick

#28 Post by **kinjitsu** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:23 pm

My monitor overscans too and I've been considering buying the Digital Video Essentials DVD to see if I can fix these sort of problems. Has anyone out there tried DVE?

#29 Post by **kinjitsu** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:59 pm

flixyflox wrote:DVE won't help at all with overscanning. (But is very good for black level/white level/color settings.)

You either have to buy one of the older Malatas which had a "zoom out" function (a friend has one of these) or else go to a new generation DVD player with DVI/HDMI out (plus a monitor with DVI/HDMI in.) The result is a huge improvement in general PQ AND no overscanning. And buy the partner/wife/boyfriend flowers before you do.

Ciao Flike!

I owned a Malata until it finally blew up, but the X Y feature was indeed a real treat and spoiled me rotten! I've got a new 42" Plasma, so that's that. A new player sounds like a better idea, but I'll keep my all-region player for obvious reasons and what the hell, I might as well get the DVE disc too.

denti alligator · #30 Post by **denti alligator** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:53 am

Problem with x-y scaling, zooming out, etc. is that is interferes with the picture quality in a noticeable way. You will see the kinds of interference lines that appear on badly mastered DVDs.

I'm currently happy with my 30" LCD monitor hooked up to a desktop computer via the PC input. I've set my computer using Power Strip to output at exactly the number of pixels that the LCD has and viola! it's pristine picture with no overscan (cus there's no 'scanning' with LCDs, obviously) and exactly the dimensions of the image on the DVD--no stretching, no artificial black lines, etc. Only the black lines that your monitor would NEED to create to give you the proper dimensions to your image. It's beautiful! And relatively cheap.

Arn777 · #31 Post by **Arn777** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:23 am

Thanks for your comments Flixy, I am considering getting a Samsung 42" plasma. It has HDMi in but not DVI, would that still be a good choice?

mbalson · #32 Post by **mbalson** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:07 am

Arn777 wrote:Thanks for your comments Flixy, I am considering getting a Samsung 42" plasma. It has HDMi in but not DVI, would that still be a good choice?

HDMI, DVI same thing. Only HDMI has audio bundled with it.

Arn777 · #33 Post by **Arn777** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:06 am

Ok I cancelled the order for the Samsung and went for a Pioneer instead, my wallet is a bit lighter though.

#34 Post by **kinjitsu** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:07 pm

denti alligator wrote:Problem with x-y scaling, zooming out, etc. is that is interferes with the picture quality in a noticeable way. You will see the kinds of interference lines that appear on badly mastered DVDs.

That wasn't much of a problem whatsoever since the Malata's X-Y scaling is (or was) extremely incremental and capably adjusted any slight overscanning on my old Sony 34â€

Arn777 · #35 Post by **Arn777** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:46 am

hmmm I got the Pioneer plasma screen, and so far I am very disappointed. It looks like I have too upgrade to a dvd player with a HDMI input, using S-Video is not great at all. Will it make such a great difference with a new dvd player?
My other concern is that films like The Incredibles may look very good, but last night I watched The Narrow Margin and got extremely distracted by the 'digital noises', the faces in particular just looked very bad, i.e, no skin pigment, they looked like they had digital wax on. It looks like if the dvd transfer is not 100% good, then plasma gives a very bad picture. Is that true or am I being daft? So far I deeply regret my CRT set.

#36 Post by **kinjitsu** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:38 pm

Arn777 wrote:hmmm I got the Pioneer plasma screen, and so far I am very disappointed. It looks like I have too upgrade to a dvd player with a HDMI input, using S-Video is not great at all. Will it make such a great difference with a new dvd player?
My other concern is that films like The Incredibles may look very good, but last night I watched The Narrow Margin and got extremely distracted by the 'digital noises', the faces in particular just looked very bad, i.e, no skin pigment, they looked like they had digital wax on. It looks like if the dvd transfer is not 100% good, then plasma gives a very bad picture. Is that true or am I being daft? So far I deeply regret my CRT set.

Don't fret, get rid of the S-Video because it will noticeably degrade the picture on the Plasma, however, the Plasma will excel if you upgrade to YIQ interconnects. If your DVD player has YIQ outs, then switch and see if that helps any, otherwise, if it doesn't have YIQ outs, buy a newer DVD player and then decide which way to go, YIQ or HDMI. When I set up my Plasma it was obvious that S-Video cables weren't going to cut it and immediately upgraded all the interconnects (including audio) and went with YIQs and it made a big difference. Unfortunately, my current DVD player (an all-region JVC) doesn't have HDMI, but at some point I will buy a new player that does. Hope this helps.

Arn777 · #37 Post by **Arn777** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 pm

Thanks. YIQ is component video, correct? I'll go buy new cables tomorrow and see if it's better.

#38 Post by **kinjitsu** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:45 pm

Arn777 wrote:Thanks. YIQ is component video, correct? I'll go buy new cables tomorrow and see if it's better.

Right, YIQ is known as component video AKA YPbPr. If yor DVD player has three YIQ RCA outs then you're in business.

Arn777 · #39 Post by **Arn777** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:05 pm

I bought a Component cable today and just tried it on two different DVD players, and believe it or not the picture quality is now MUCH worse with component video than it was with my S-Video connection. I am completely at a loss. Does it mean I have to get a new player with HDMI and only that way I can enjoy a decent picture quality with a plasma screen?

#40 Post by **kinjitsu** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:34 pm

Arn777 wrote:I bought a Component cable today and just tried it on two different DVD players, and believe it or not the picture quality is now MUCH worse with component video than it was with my S-Video connection. I am completely at a loss. Does it mean I have to get a new player with HDMI and only that way I can enjoy a decent picture quality with a plasma screen?

That's a drag! I don't know what to tell you except maybe you haven't hooked them up correctly, either that or perhaps your DVD player is somehow at fault. What brand of player do you have and how old is it? If you buy a new player you should try the component video cables first, then worry about HDMI, after all, upgrading can get expensive.

Arn777 · #41 Post by **Arn777** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:44 pm

Yes it's a real drag. I have a UK Denon 1910 (it's got a DVI-output, and I bought a DVI to HDMI cable but got no picture at all, so I reverted to using S-Video as before) it's just over one year old, and a US Pioneer DV-444 that is a bit older. Maybe I bought crappy component cables, the store I went to didn't have any particular expensive ones.
I am going to call an AV consultant, as it's driving me crazy, and can't watch any films without being distracted by the poor picture quality.

#42 Post by **kinjitsu** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:14 pm

Arn777 wrote:Yes it's a real drag. I have a UK Denon 1910 (it's got a DVI-output, and I bought a DVI to HDMI cable but got no picture at all, so I reverted to using S-Video as before) it's just over one year old, and a US Pioneer DV-444 that is a bit older. Maybe I bought crappy component cables, the store I went to didn't have any particular expensive ones.
I am going to call an AV consultant, as it's driving me crazy, and can't watch any films without being distracted by the poor picture quality.

Understandably. If the retailer where you bought your Plasma is customer friendly, then you might consider bringing your player and cables into the store and asking them for help. If all else fails, return the cables and get a refund or at least credit. I bought 1 meter Audio Quest YIQ-1 cables that cost about $100, not cheap, but not exactly upper-tier. When I can afford to upgrade to a new player, I will bite the HDMI bullet, though I'll keep the old one since it is an all-region. Anyhow, I'm curious to know what happens.

Arn777 · #43 Post by **Arn777** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:35 pm

Thanks for your moral support, much appreciated. I'll bring back the cables and have another try with some more expensive component ones tomorrow and give a call to the store's AV consultant.

Arn777 · #44 Post by **Arn777** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:13 pm

Flixy, it looks like we could have the same, mine is the PDP-435FDE. There is no switch at the back of the Denon. And yes I did use INPUT 3, and enabled HDMI, then there are 4 video options: auto, colour 1, 2 & 3, but neither produced anything but a black screen. I'll give a call to Pioneer too.

Edit: I have made some good progress! Bought a proper component cable (around $80) and it has improved quality, although I still have issues with skins esp. when fairly close up. The sales guy recommended a $150 component cable (with silver coated cables), is the price really justified in terms of improvement in picture quality?
Then I managed to switch to DVI output on the Denon (the switch was a tiny button on the front of the player, duh) and hooked the player to the HDMI output. It is much better than component (but I still need to play with the calibration, I am still not 100% happy). I am using 720p, at 1080, I lose some definition.

Now, I still have a relatively major problem. When using the Denon with HDMI, I only have two options, either 'Widescreen Full" or 'Widescreen Wide' (i.e. Zoom in the pictuer), which means that I am not able to watch 1.33 ration films properly. I have tried with the DVD player set with a 16/9 display and 4:3 display, and it doesn't change anything, I lose all of the other options that are available with component or S-video, i.e. the key one for me to watch films in proper 1.33 ratio with the grey bars on each side of the screen. Do you have any idea how I can solve this problem. Thanks again for tips and support.

Arn777 · #45 Post by **Arn777** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:56 am

Bummer, that's quite annoying, since I'm sure you have a good proportion of 1.33 films. I'll give Pioneer a call too.

Edit: Merde!!!! I called Pioneer, and they told me it was a player issue and advised me to call Denon, typical. Called Denon tech support guy who said there is no way around it, and that with DVI/HDMI it will automatically switch to widescreen. So I will have to revert to component for 1.33 films. Apparently due to a lack of standard at the moment. I wonder if anybody has managed to watch properly a 1.33 film on a plasma screen using DVI/HDMI. I am a bit confused though, I believe it is possible with a projector, why not with a plasma display?

peerpee · #46 Post by **peerpee** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:34 am

Can't you use HDMI and set your DVD player menu to "4:3 LB" instead of "16:9" ?

Arn777 · #47 Post by **Arn777** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:36 pm

I tried that, still the display automatically defaults to widescreen and I am not able to switch manually to 4:3.

ben d banana · #48 Post by **ben d banana** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:44 pm

flixyflox wrote:Oh - are you also beginning to wonder if you shouldn't have bought the 50 inch model?

Do tell, as I may be resorting to the 42" Panasonic instead of the 50" to save myself a couple grand, and no (reputable/non-gouging) stores are able to provide me with 50" business monitor in this half-assed wasteland.

The Panasonic also apparently doesn't allow an aspect ratio choice via HDMI, but Flixy you are definitively saying the Oppo, which will come right after the TV, will allow me to switch from the player?

Needless to say, the gf is absolutely fucking sick of this decision making process.

ben d banana · #49 Post by **ben d banana** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:58 pm

Thanks Flixy. It's not so much the purchase (as it's my $), but my continued debate and obsessing that's driving her around the bend. Oh well.

The black, in particular the new flat black, bezel is definitely our choice, which is another Panasonic selling point (besides the picture).

Oppo has the Faroudja chip. I could hook up an Oppo via HDMI and one of my Toshiba multi-region players via component I guess, but that's a shame, as I have quite a few 1.33 DVDs myself, although nowhere near as many as you. I'll have to bring some DVDs into test I guess. 1.33 DVDs do look large and lovely on a 50" screen, it's true, but $2000. The hemming and hawing continues.

This looks promising:

AVS Forum wrote:SETTINGS:
Oppo settings :
TV Display -> Wide/SQZ (Will "pillarbox" 4:3 material)
Sharpness -> Off
Otherwise, default.

ben d banana · #50 Post by **ben d banana** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:39 pm

Sorry Flixy, I'm going to order an Oppo shortly (within the week) as I plan on picking up a Panasonic plasma this weekend. I did also notice this from the above link I posted:

AVS Forum wrote:4:3 display on 16:9 (aka "pillarbox"):
1080i: Yes (with a slight penalty of reduction in resolution)
720p: Yes (with a slight penalty of reduction in resolution)
480i: No

I do hope it works as the word is the component ain't so hot on the Oppo. I can always have one of my Toshibas hooked up via component if it comes down to it. Actually, Oppo are supposed to be super customer friendly so I'll probably just shoot them off an email about it quickly.

Yes, I noticed the flurry in our other favorite thread.