Justified

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Justified

#276 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:36 am

Same could be said for his supposed Nazi streak, he just saw a way of corralling guys to help him meet his bottom line.

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Re: Justified

#277 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:43 pm

Justified writer/executive producer Chris Provenzano is developing another Elmore Leonard adaptation, a period western, for AMC


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Re: Justified

#279 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:23 am

Remember the discussion about ST:TNG and people waiting for a Complete Series box ? Well, I guess that again, that's what you get when supporting BD sales for a TV show straight from the beginning.
If the final season gets a lossless track (in opposite to its individual release), that'll be the last drip.

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Re: Justified

#280 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:45 pm

Someone made a "ship" video of Raylan and Dickie set to an LDR cover. The internet is a bottomless well

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Re: Justified

#281 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:08 am

Did my first full series revisit since this ended and I am happy to say it holds up remarkably well to a rewatch. Just a joy from start to finish. And season five is still the best season, by the time it comes around the show is already so good that it's just everyone at the height of their powers hitting the right notes over and over. Also, because so many of the episodes are unusually long, it's almost like we get a fourteenth episode overall, which helps with fleshing everything out. Watching in close quarters really shows how skillfully planned out the fourth and fifth seasons are-- these two more than the others feel like novels rather than a series of narrative arcs stitched together (which is fine for serialized television). Season four works better for me on revisit in close quarters than it did when it aired, but five is just so goddamn satisfying, and it continues to boggle my mind that most of this shows' fans (apart from our forum) don't acknowledge that Michael Rapaport gives the best Big Bad perf. My overall season ranking from the previous page remains the same, though the second and fourth seasons may be a little closer than I previously thought.

I will say that the biggest misstep the series makes that I didn't notice much while it was airing is that it really loses Limehouse as a character after season three. He goes from being a brutally scrupulous last resort to changing terms and doing so in a manner that would ensure no one would procure his services or trust him, the two things someone in his position would need to secure at all costs. It seemed like every appearance he made after the Ellen May handoff just had no idea what to do with the character and kept bringing him back to fill in plot gaps. But Jesus, if that's the biggest misstep of the series, that we still get a great character when he's a major player and his utility status in later seasons is more diluted, what does that tell you about this series?

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Re: Justified

#282 Post by domino harvey » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:10 pm

Olyphant reprised Raylan Givens on the Good Place this season, though specifics constitute spoilers for that show

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Re: Justified

#283 Post by domino harvey » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:24 pm

A Reddit user is laying out the timeframe of the series season by season. Here are the first two seasons (spoilers within):

Season one: 76 days
SpoilerShow
Here are some basic points to looking at the Justified timeline (This applies so far to Season 1 only)
- Justified has a very linear timeline. They only do brief flashback scenes, like when Raylan remembers working in the mine with Boyd, and when the flashback ends it returns to the same scene. Otherwise all the scenes appear to be in chronological order
- Almost all the episodes show consecutive days, if they skip days inside an episode they will flash an explainer on screen, like "2 days later" or "3 weeks later"
- The gaps between episodes are mostly 2-4 days, there is one outlier 7 day gap between episodes 3 and 4 because Raylan got shot (wearing a vest) at Travis Travers house and took a week off to recover
- The last 4 episodes of season 1 have no gap, they either pick up on the same day as the last episode or the next day
- The distances travelled often feel a little unrealistic, a round trip in real life from Lexington to Harlan and back is about 5 hours. Surprisingly I didnt find an instance where the travel is not physically possible. They sometimes show Raylan coming home late at night, which would be necessary to do everything he does in Harlan then drive the 2.5 hours home to Lexington
The only episode in S1 where the distances get a bit much is episode 5 where Raylan goes to Harlan first thing in the morning, back to Lexington by the afternoon then back to Harlan that night, but even that is not outside the realms of possibility


So for Season one here is how it pans out
Episode 1 - 6 days +2 day gap
Episode 2 - 9 days (including a 1 week gap just before the end of the episode) + 2 day gap
Episode 3 - 2 days + 7 day gap
Episode 4 - 2 days + 4 day gap
Episode 5 - 2 days + 4 day gap
Episode 6 - 5 days + 4 day gap
Episode 7 - 2 days + 4 day gap
Episode 8 - 4 days + 3 day gap
Episode 9 - 3 days
Episode 10 - 5 days
Episode 11 - 2 days
Episode 12 - 2 days
Episode 13 - 2 days
So that totals 76 days or one day shy of 11 weeks (about two and a half months) from Raylan shooting Tommy Bucks to Boyd leaving Bulletville to chase Gio's niece

There are two episodes where I had to make an approximation. In Episode 8 I assumed it would take at least a couple of days between Vasquez telling Raylan they had to let Boyd go and him actualy getting out. And there is nothing to tell the time between the end of episode 7 and the start of episode 8, so I went with 4 days as that matches the longest verified gap between episodes (except for between 3 and 4 where Raylan was injured). In episode 7 there is nothing concrete to say how long a gap since episode 6 so I went with 4 days again
Season two: 38 days
SpoilerShow
****Beware - Spoilers below****

Following on from my earlier post looking at the Season 1 TImeline I have finally finished the Season 2 analysis
Just like Season 1 this season has a linear timeline, this time with no flashbacks of any kind as far as I noticed. The timeline in Season 2 is very compressed, much more so than season 1. Like season 1 the time gets more compressed towards the end of the season and for the most part there are no gaps between episodes in the second half of the season
Again it is pretty easy in this season to tell the passage of individual days due to outfit changes, references to yesterday or x number of days ago, time based plotlines etc
Season 2 starts exactly where season 1 left off, in fact it goes back an hour or two and replays parts of the finale
More than half of the episodes pick up right where the last one left off. The rest have gaps of between 1 and 4 days between episodes

So here is how Season 2 pans out
Episode 1 - 1 day
Episode 2 - 2 days
Episode 3 - 3 days with 1 day gap
Episode 4 - 2 days with 2 day gap
Episode 5 - 3 days with 4 day gap
Episode 6 - 2 days with 2 day gap
Episode 7 - 1 day
Episode 8 - 3 days
Episode 9 - 1 day
Episode 10 - 1 day
Episode 11 - 1 day
Episode 12 - 4 days
Episode 13 - 1 day with 4 day gap
That totals 38 days or just under 5 and a half weeks for all of Season 2, exactly half of the 76 days season 1 took
So now with season 1 and 2 counted we are 114 days, just over 16 weeks, or a little over 3 and a half months, into the full Justified timeline

Episode 13 of season 2 is an important one because that is when Winona tells Raylan she is pregnant, this will become an invaluable guide in later seasons to test the strength of my calculations

The only estimating I had to do were between episodes 4 and 5 where Raylan used the phrase "the other day" rather than specifying how many days since something happened and between episodes 12 and 13 after Helen died and Raylan took a week off but it isnt specified where in that week the funeral was. So we know it was roughly 7 days between day 1 of episode 12 and day 1 of episode 13 but we don't know which one of those 7 days was the end of episode 12

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Re: Justified

#284 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri May 29, 2020 2:59 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:10 pm
Olyphant reprised Raylan Givens on the Good Place this season, though specifics constitute spoilers for that show
Finished The Good Place (which was just excellent) and found myself preoccupied with Justified for a few days afterwards. I haven't watched the show since my original run-through back in early 2015 (I started it during the end of the final season and plowed through it in barely over a week to catch up) and figured now is as good a time as any to do it again. I didn't rank the fifth season quite as highly as this board on my first go, but I did love it and in reading through this thread a lot of terrific points are made for its value. I am a huge fan of systemic disruption of expected rules as an Achilles' heel offense, as I've talked about in other writeups (especially regarding horror), so the idea of the Crowe family's 'flaws'-as-strengths I immediately got behind, and is something I think was lost on most viewers.

Very excited to go through it again half a decade later and see where the chips fall, though my initial season ranking was similar to many here, with only 5 and 3 switched, and I remember loving 4, but I think that's been tainted by time as the later wonderful eps overshadow whatever came before.

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Re: Justified

#285 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:55 am

One thing this show does so well is that it provides a dose of real humanity to its villains, despite its unapologetically unrealistic touches. The villains are flawed, and I don't mean just morally flawed or 'got too greedy and ignited own downfall' thin-Achilles-heel-flawed, but their demises are met after we break the facades of the Big Tough Baddie. The family in the second season is placed on an all-powerful pedestal, but slowly shows to be a complex family system of contradictions and not as impenetrable as they appear. It's McDonough seemingly master-schemer who is the most interesting though, and season three is even better on a revisit knowing how it all plays out with his character.
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What could be an easy, chilling double-life villain of the Good Dad who also mirrors as a ruthless businessman killer, turns into a more complicated character study. I'll admit that this dual characteristic sold me immediately on the first run-through, as I bet it did most audiences, but the reveal that he is compromised by his trauma history, and reacts to failure by taking drugs perpetuating such failures (as well as a heap of other character flaws demonstrating out-of-control behaviors) blows a giant hole in the confident mastervillain he's painted as in the beginning. Few shows would grant such an easy-A villain this many shades of humanity, because it would be way easier to soak up the gold coins of his two-dimensional construction, but the show has no interest in taking the quickest route.
I think the other obvious path would be to draw a moral complexity, to make us feel sorry for them, but we don't do that either (though the show already makes us see some of these antagonists as the complicated people they are.. I mean, we do have Boyd). The creators find a way to tap into humanity without evoking empathy, which is incredibly challenging to pull off.

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Re: Justified

#286 Post by tenia » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:22 am

What I remained impressed by with Justified is how the episodes almost always fly by, as if everyone never needs more than 2 seconds to understand what's going on, what's to do or who made stuff happen.

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Re: Justified

#287 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:13 pm

Best Dewey Crowe line:
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"You mean I've got four kidneys?!"

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Re: Justified

#288 Post by therewillbeblus » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:03 pm

It turns out the fourth season is even more terrific than I remembered, and a running contender for my favorite season. The crime mystery novelization cuts the fluff episodes normally populating the early section of the seasons, and the multiple moving parts create an enveloping tornado of suspense, balancing all storylines perfectly. It’s not just a whodunit regarding Drew Thompson, but an involving narrative of intrigue that transitions into an elongated action-thriller in the relentless final act, before dissipating into a barren meditation on residual pathos. I love the show but this is the first time they’ve been able to generously attend to all areas of the show this succinctly, no fat to be found.

Even the details are woven into the story seamlessly, like the curiously eerie snake church, the loving relationship between the sheriff and Ellen May, and expanding the comprehensive exposition that fleshes out Harlan County’s generational history, as well as more trivial fun touches like the geographical history and territory with the hill people. The relationships are also given more dimensions, with Gutterson and Colt bonding over veteran status, which is something gently beautiful amidst superficial toughness.

Colt is an incredible character in general, very subdued and may quietly bore some, but -compared to the previous season’s flawed addict his internalized trauma- Colt comes across in a softness that doesn’t flaunt a false persona. For a sociopathic killer he carries a default of emotion and even empathy underneath the pain of desensitized violence, best depicted when he gets that phone call from Ava while driving Ellen May. He may be able to turn off his conscience most of the time but the unexpected task, without a drug to distract, allows for a moment of sensitive reflection. His fuckups are in character for this reason, in step with the directionless attitude he carries on his back. There is something so sad about Colt’s demeanor that forces me to empathize with him due to him resembling so many people I know (you know, without the senseless killing). He may be the most authentic character in the show, as reminiscent of a real human being.

Props to Ron Eldard for playing the role appropriately enigmatic to elicit this honest complexity without overselling or spoonfeeding us the different shades of Colt. His rough sides are in no way forgivable but the behavior is more indicative of his desperate circumstances and torture of addiction than a completely hollow, cold nature. This doesn’t minimize the actions but makes him more interesting and complicated. Even though one could read his moments of compassion like with the early killing of a veteran witness as self-serving in using him as a sounding board, there is a delicacy within him itching to connect, with the numbed logical autopilot winning out time and time again. It’s a masterful performance.

I also love his relationship with Boyd because it resembles the Boyd/Raylan pairing of two men who have a shared history that means something until their acclimation to current circumstances reveals this to mean very little. The man each knew has been broken by their own path to funnel a new man out on the other end. It’s fascinating to watch Boyd wrestle with the same inner conflict this season that Raylan does with him throughout the series, and spare Colt with lenient consequences that he wouldn't extend to anyone else.

There are many failed double crosses and Nicky Augustine is as weak a villain as Colt, but that’s the genius of the season. The good guys and bad guys are constantly tripping over themselves and messily scraping to keep their heads above water (even the showdowns are sloppy, with Constable Bob’s shootout, and subsequent confrontation with Yolo as prime examples- the latter one of the show’s more brutal moments). The season humanizes everyone as fallible and the milieu of the show as exasperatingly overwhelming; unglamorous personalities participating in intricate plotting due to repetitive failures. Raylan gets a standing ovation and cements his status of supercop to match his ego, but the cops’ perspectives aren’t easily aligned with our own consciences due to Drew and Ellen May’s likeability. So when they’re dubbed worthless by Art and Raylan my humanism kicks in and for the first time I question the department for taking positions of devaluation of the dignity and worth of people who have earned our affection. Of course, their perspective is validated too, but we need to wrestle with the reality that it's not the whole truth. Similarly, Boyd and Ava too become watered down with their own morality/self-preservation conflicts in the face of these other troubled souls who earn our sympathies with less screen time. A great example is the final Colt/Gutterson showdown where I felt nothing for Ava’s position, but Colt apologizing and then professing his perspective that lives of veterans are compromised and partly died overseas before self-destructing for good, produces deserved solace from us- without asking us to empathize with his humanity enough to wish the scene went differently.

Art is able to mull over Raylan’s carte blanche wielding of power and put his foot down, revealing Raylan’s own questionable projection of force vs trust in others, without invalidating it. Every character and dynamic is given richer shades, and it’s a better season for it. The final moments reflect a bittersweet, raw truth about Colt's perspective that veterans are compromised but for all these characters who participate in this compromised space. The show has never been more grey and yet every piece is colored in to demonstrate that nebulous relativity.

I'm thrilled to revisit season five's wider scope of narrative composition, but season four has jumped ahead of two and three for me as, at least, the second best.

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Re: Justified

#289 Post by domino harvey » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:03 pm

Season four played a lot better for me on rewatch as well. Its plotting is so novelesque that it really hits harder when not seen one chapter a week but unfurled at the pace of viewer interest.

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Re: Justified

#290 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:28 pm

Season five still beats four, even if the prior is more psychologically complex and narratively, as well as spatially, expansive. This season doesn’t sidestep these intricacies, but uses them to deliver a more balanced meal of pure entertainment. Loretta’s teenager is given layers as she should, striking a nebulous line of sight between Raylan’s father-figure and her developmentally-appropriate impenetrable teen mind. Amy Smart (who is one of my favorite couldabeen ‘kittenish nouvelle vague’ type actresses beamed into the new millennium, horribly underutilized for nearly her entire career) plays a social worker with her own professional and personal struggles that hits a familiar chord. Her brokenness is reflective of the vicarious trauma of the work, and her own relationship issues not uncommon in those on the front lines.

The villains are so wild that they continuously disrupt the flow of logic that can be the least bit predictable among police or thieves. Rapaport’s Daryl Crowe is wonderful as the most narcissistic villain, and thus the most frightening kind of person in my eyes, because he is a walking contradiction- professing a code of family but hurting, killing, and sacrificing his own. The creepiest part is that he is unaware of his own behavior, hypocritically countering the ethical design he forces upon his family, so he actually believes the righteousness that is so alarmingly false to everyone else. It's a warped family system structure, though one that's piercingly authentic. Whatever audiences were laughing at this season haven't experienced the deep-rooted maladaptive family dynamics comprised of personality disorders and suppression, but -unfortunately- they're the kind of cartoons that are real.

I still think Decoy may be the show’s finest episode, but season five has at least a handful of episodes that rival its scope, and on the whole it’s far more interesting in how the character associations intermingle and power transfers by the moment. Witt and Rapaport make me so happy whenever they grace the screen, and the grimy yet vibrant Shakespearean recontextualization of moral allegiance, and disruption from normative but dysfunctional systemic roles, is as pleasurable as it is sickening and haunting. This is also Boyd's best season, as well as Ava's, blossoming independently better than together. The stakes have never been higher in gambling with a child's life, but even amidst all the darkness this season is more colorful, provocative, quietly chaotic, eccentric, and most importantly, fun, than all the rest. If season four is a perfectly serialized mystery novel, season five is like a Great American novel concentrated into the world of a western cop show.

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Re: Justified

#291 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:47 am

I finished my final revisit of the sixth season today and hate to say it was a major disappointment. Aside from the last scene which is just terrific, this is on par with the first and threatens to beat it for the worst season. Either way, it’s miles away from the greatness of the four middle chapters.

Watching this so close together, it’s glaring how unearned the transformation of Boyd and Ava’s relationship is-
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going from star-eyed lovers to mistrustful, cold resentment, all because she was in prison and began to believe that he stopped putting her first? I do think that a seed of concern can turn into a cancer in a relationship, and the complexities in how each respond to the other are, at times, impressively conveying emotional confusion in each’s inner conflict. However, it’s mostly explored in a puzzling fashion, especially from Ava, but also Boyd embracing a fully-heartless/heartbroken killer persona, one that he’s shown shades of but never uniformly like this. The whole progression just feels 'off.'
The biggest flaw though (and it feels uncomfortably blasphemous to even write out) is that Raylan is the least interesting character this season, barely a shadow of the likeable hero we've grown to love (hell, we loved him from the first minute of the first episode). This is another frustrating departure from the show's DNA, as Olyphant’s swinging charms are sucked up into a seemingly thin, empty role. This is really the fault of the writing, which doesn’t do the season any favors, and is easily the worst ep-to-ep scripts since the first season. The plot is relatively weak, though I understand that in working to bring the show to a close there needs to be some contrivances to tie up the ends.

The sixth season is the only one I watched live and it was much more satisfying week to week after binging the first five. I had fondly remembered Markham's narrative and the other side villains in Dillahunt and Tucker, but I couldn't stand these storylines or 'meaty' scene-chewing roles this time out. After the first half is done, I found the plotting and self-serious/dull characters to become so exhausting I actually became irritated. The first season, while problematic, was at least 'fun' for the most part, and in love with its characters. Wynn Duffy gets some great screen time, thus saving a good chunk of this chapter, but man- the drop in quality from seasons five to six is just sad.

I'm probably being unnecessarily harsh, especially for a show that I adore- but I can also unreservedly bash a chunk of Twin Peaks like most of its fans and still call it an all-time favorite. After seasons four and five delivered far greater returns, I suppose this finale was destined to be disappointing, and yet I am compelled to rank it last, in this moment right now, because of how sterile the vibe was- and for reducing Raylan from a terrific character to a cardboard cutout overnight (well, I started the 6th immediately after finishing the 5th, so it was quite jarring).

My final ranking: 5>4>3>2>6>1

Edit (7/14/23): After yet another revisit, most of my qualms with the sixth season played much smoother. It's pretty great - still significantly below 2, but much better than 1.
Last edited by therewillbeblus on Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Justified

#292 Post by whaleallright » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:02 pm

Why do so many people seem to be rewatching or discovering this show five years after it ended? Count me among them.

I'm in the middle of season 3 and I'm wondering if the shift in storytelling strategies and tone—it is both more intricately serial and more "dark" and violent—was prompted by a need to compete with the emergece (and critical acclaim) of several hyperviolent, narratively ambitious "quality" cable TV series in the early-mid 2010s? I guess it was already moving in that direction in season 2, though the third season seems to eliminate most traces of goofiness (unfortunate) and also the cornpone Hatfield/McCoy shit (blessedly). Givens shot a lot of people in season 1, though overall the tone there was breezier, more in line with the tone I associate with Elmore Leonard. But every episode of season 3 seems to feature several graphic bloodlettings.
A Reddit user is laying out the timeframe of the series season by season. Here are the first two seasons (spoilers within):
I'm often struck by how "flexible" (that is, incoherent) the timeline of most dramatic serial TV is when you start to analyze it closely. Across the same number of episodes, some plotlines seem to span months while others suggest the passage of mere days. I don't think of this as a flaw, really, since it's the causally-connected flow of action that holds one's interest, not some rigorous delineation of time and space.

That said, the more intricate the plotting, the more that cause-and-effect ricochets across different subplots, the more the showrunners have to kind of "regulate" this and keep at least the appearance of temporal coherence. All of which suggests they tok a different approach to season 3, planning out the storylines more carefully in advance in a way that's not uncommon these days (esp. given the rise of seasons released all at once) but which is a fairly recent development in television history.

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Re: Justified

#293 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:35 pm

whaleallright wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:02 pm
Why do so many people seem to be rewatching or discovering this show five years after it ended? Count me among them.
I spent the weekend with my friend and his parents, who - when I mentioned that I just revisited the show - went on a rant singing its praises and made immediate plans to do a full revisit this week. I think it's contagious. I already want to do another (though really just four and five, due to how complex and entertaining they are).


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Re: Justified

#295 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:25 pm


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Re: Justified

#296 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am

Quentin Tarantino is reportedly in talks to direct several episodes of Justified: City Primeval

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Re: Justified

#297 Post by domino harvey » Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:03 pm

I'll believe a future filming project from Tarantino only when he's actually on set, that guy must have the largest number of unrealized projects in film history

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Re: Justified

#298 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:59 pm

Right, and it would make sense for the network/production team to reach out to him since he's transparently both a huge fan of the original series and clearly eager to work on more projects, so long as no one has the opportunity to call him a liar about his 'ten films and done' rule

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Re: Justified

#299 Post by knives » Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:15 pm

Not to mention that he has directed television before.

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Re: Justified

#300 Post by swo17 » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:11 pm

My daughters have some random Disney show on, which I find interesting because the main character's favorite musician is Esperanza Spalding (who is amazing) and because this guy plays a rockstar who dates her grandma (you get one guess):
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The entire relationship is only one episode, but they almost get married! (He wants to settle down and proposes, but she says no because her life is just beginning to take off. As far as I can tell, in every subsequent episode she just continues to provide muted comic relief from the sidelines)

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