Black Mirror

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Persona
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#76 Post by Persona » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:12 pm

Some clarifications on my previous post. The "permutations" thing can be misleading as I think it has been broken down that there are 250 different footage sequences--though I don't know if this accounts for the path-sensitive "back to Bandersnatch" montages, which might be algorithmic. If there are really millions of permutations, it would only relate to play-throughs where you constantly re-loop through the different decisions.

That said, I was still impressed by what they were able to pull off with this thing given that it is, in some ways, a bit of a prototype. While it does get very repetitive (inevitably, given how it is constructed) and its limitations quickly become apparent, I was still impressed by the relative smoothness and pace of the experience and there were legitimately several moments where I was kind of blown away by the subtle differences between certain paths and then the way the experience recognizes its own variations. And while it's a pretty short path, I have to continue to reiterate that I did like the core narrative that ends up at "O Superman"--kind of wish that had been one of the longest paths as opposed to one of the shortest.

The Pearl ending follows through more on the different story threads and the meta nature of the whole thing, so I thought that was the second most satisfying ending out of a bunch of endings that are sort of intentionally unsatisfying and meant to loop you back through this sort of Sisyphean maze that Brooker set up to taunt you--but, partly as a a result of its own extremely meta nature, the Pearl ending lacks in any sort of emotional resonance. Through just a few key aesthetic choices that "O Superman" ending manages to make something moving and bittersweet out of a pretty brief and minimal plot and an ending that could have been really bleak. It feels like the one time that Brooker allows some sort of "out," and there is a kind of beautiful peace about it. Again, if "O Superman" had been set up at the end of one of the longer story paths (if you can look at it that way--it could take you a long time to get to "O Superman" depending on what choices you make), it might have done a lot for my final estimation of this as a narrative experience.

EDIT:

This article breaks down the whole "O Superman" narrative and really gets the beauty of it, especially in the context of the other narratives within Bandersnatch:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-hidden-beau ... 1831369911

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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: Black Mirror

#77 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:34 am

Bandersnatch does sound interesting, though I will probably never see it since I do not have Netflix. It does sound as if it is a bit of a response to recent video game branching narratives probably exemplified at the moment by Until Dawn.


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Boosmahn
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:08 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#79 Post by Boosmahn » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

You have got to be kidding me.

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domino harvey
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#80 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:06 pm

I thought this didn't sound good for Netflix, though:
Netflix had pursued a license to use the name in films and interactive cartoons in 2016, it continues, but “extensive negotiations” between the publisher and the streaming service were ultimately unsuccessful.

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Boosmahn
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Re: Black Mirror

#81 Post by Boosmahn » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:32 pm

True, it doesn't... I just don't want the rest of season five to be delayed.

(And while I'm posting, I might as throw my vote into the mix that the "O Superman" ending is the best by far. It's beautiful.)

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Black Mirror

#82 Post by tenia » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:59 pm

I'm actually quite surprised by this issue. While they used the (most likely) copyrighted trademark "Choose Your Own Adventures" by refering to it in the episode, you can't really copyright a storytelling style, so this is mere name-dropping. I read the lawsuit and it's, as expected, technically quite light since, again, Chooseco doesn't have any patent or copyright on an interactive storytelling style, and the majority of it revolves around this name-dropping used in an interactive episode.

However, IBM managed to get a patent granted for "Selecting divergent storylines using branching techniques" back in 2003, though it's not the same kind of selection system (so Bandersnatch wouldn't be infringing that).

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Persona
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#83 Post by Persona » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:44 pm

Reviews of Season 5 are pretty rough.

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/miley ... 202147521/

The trailers have been pretty underwhelming so I can't say I'm surprised.

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: Black Mirror

#84 Post by tenia » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:01 am

This seems extremely focused on the Cyrus episode.

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Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: Black Mirror

#85 Post by Finch » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:05 am

Slant liked the new season FWIW. The indiewire article makes it sound like season five is a failure because their own critic didn't like one episode.

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Persona
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#86 Post by Persona » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:34 am

Finch wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:05 am
Slant liked the new season FWIW. The indiewire article makes it sound like season five is a failure because their own critic didn't like one episode.
That's true, the title of the article is a little misleading. Though maybe not given that one episode comprises a whole third of the season.

Vulture called Season 5 "exquisitely dumb."

I look forward to a chance to watch it!

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Lost Highway
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:41 am
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Re: Black Mirror

#87 Post by Lost Highway » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:23 am

It can’t be worse than the new Twilight Zone. Can’t believe I hung in there for eight episodes.

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Finch
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Re: Black Mirror

#88 Post by Finch » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:58 pm

Yeah, the new TZ got compared pretty unfavourably to Black Mirror in a lot of reviews.

That Vulture line, ouch.

Are these feature-length episodes? I'm somewhat surprised they call three episodes a season. Is it shorter because of Bendersnatch?

Glowingwabbit
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 1:27 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#89 Post by Glowingwabbit » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:38 pm

Finch wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:58 pm
Are these feature-length episodes? I'm somewhat surprised they call three episodes a season. Is it shorter because of Bendersnatch?
I think they are just an hour each. The first two series of Black Mirror only consisted of 3 eps each (it's also not that unusual for a British show)

[Edit: Bandersnatch was probably the reason for less eps]

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Finch
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Re: Black Mirror

#90 Post by Finch » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:23 pm

Thanks for confirming, glowingwabbit, but my impression was that it became an American show, more or less, after Netflix picked it up (was Season Three?), and they had more episodes afterwards? Mind, I only watched a handful of episodes so I'm not as well-versed in Black Mirror as others.

Glowingwabbit
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 1:27 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#91 Post by Glowingwabbit » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:04 pm

Finch wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:23 pm
Thanks for confirming, glowingwabbit, but my impression was that it became an American show, more or less, after Netflix picked it up (was Season Three?), and they had more episodes afterwards? Mind, I only watched a handful of episodes so I'm not as well-versed in Black Mirror as others.
Netflix purchased distribution rights, but I''m pretty sure it's still a British company that actually produces it so it still follows the way British "seasons" are formatted. I'm just speculating but I assume Bandersnatch took up a lot of resources (i.e. time/money), so they decided to revert back to the 3 episode series format for Series 5. I'm sure they will go back to 6 episodes for future series.

Also apologies, Netflix does refer to them as seasons instead of series, but I think that is just their default as I've seen one-off mini-series show as Season 1.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Black Mirror

#92 Post by zedz » Wed May 20, 2020 11:14 pm

Reports that Season 5 of Black Mirror was the weakest so far were no exaggeration, but I honestly didn't expect its three episodes to be the three weakest individual episodes of the whole run. The series has had its ups and downs, but you can generally rely on it for, at least, conceptually interesting premises and a modicum of wit. Perhaps no longer.

The gay panic gaming episode was probably the best of the three, but rather than confront the sexual complications of the set up head on (or better still, augment them), it ended on a cutesy alibi that preserved the status quo instead.

The Miley Cyrus episode was jam-packed and half-baked, with much of its technological basis either poorly thought through or conveniently handwaved to serve the plot (for instance, it makes no economic or technological sense that the Ashley doll actually contains the entirety of its human original's personality and memory, but the plot wouldn't work unless it did). The climactic car chase is emblematic of the desperation around the writers' table here. I suspected things were going to end badly as soon as we notice that Ashley's massive pop hit is actually a Nine Inch Nails song. It would have been hilarious if this had just been a bizarre non sequitur, but alas it's a Big Plot Point that's supposed to Blow Your Mind
SpoilerShow
when the 'proper' version of the song becomes her grand 'artistic statement' at the end. 1) It's pretty silly to pretend that 'Head Like a Hole' was ever anything deeper than a big dumb pop song - Trent Reznor's strength has always been in penning big dumb pop songs, whatever gothic attire he drapes around them; 2) it's even sillier to propose that Ashley's fans wouldn't recognize their favourite song and would run sobbing from the club in horror.
It's like depicting Duran Duran fans stabbing themselves in the ears upon hearing Depeche Mode for the first time.

I couldn't even remember what the third episode was without looking it up. It's the "social media is evil, especially when you're driving" one. Moment by moment, it's reasonably well-executed, but the satirical commentary is extremely banal. Like the other two episodes, it's also way more toothless than I'd come to expect from Black Mirror, and there's a strain of sentimentality in all three of these episodes that is a very strange fit for the format.

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tenia
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Re: Black Mirror

#93 Post by tenia » Thu May 21, 2020 5:06 am

Oh they're all 3 appalling in some ways, and indeed extremely weak within Black Mirror's array of episodes. The 1st one is gay panic meet VR possibilities (but within a fighting video game for no reason), and has nothing to offer in terms of depth, being technological or moral. The 2nd one is also tenuous at best, and way too long too. The 3rd one with Cyrus might be the only one of the 3 to have at least enough material to vaguely fill the whole episode, and it's not uninteresting to see Cyrus seemingly toying with her own persona, but it ends up feeling again a bit aimless, losing momentum because it seems to lack some focus.

Overall, I think that's the main issue : all 3 episodes seem to roam around their subjects and can't stay focus enough. They digress too often. It doesn't help they're waaaay too long.

On the other hand, I rewatched most of the episodes with my GF, who didn't know the show, and there are quite a lot of mediocre episodes. We watched the episodes from "best" to "worst" and we have pretty much still 50% of episodes left to watch that we probably never will because we won't bother.

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