Game of Thrones & House of the Dragon

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Feiereisel
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:41 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#76 Post by Feiereisel » Mon May 25, 2015 12:30 pm

I'm enjoying it about as much as I always have, though I've consistently been less enthused about it than other people I know. (I basically consider the show a well-made and very expensive soap opera.)

The show's biggest flaw remains its glacially-advancing macro-narrative--I'm not sure how positively it reflects on a show when seasonal changes are thrillingly significant, y'know? Daenerys' business is particularly maddening, partially because I'm still kind of unsure of what she's hoping to accomplish, in a larger sense, with her various political maneuvers. This drag is also present to various degrees in every plot thread, but the King's Landing and Winterfell stuff is playing better for me--it's a little sharper.

As far as the tone of the show goes, I've found it to be consistent with what I've perceived the show to be from almost the very beginning--the show has always seemed kind of grim and awful.

I also can't shake the sense that the show's uncompromising, gritty world is a pretense designed to disguise the more conventional fantasy trappings--but that's another discussion entirely.

Still, if the lazy complaint with Lord of the Rings was that it was just about people walking from place to place, then the similarly surface level criticism regarding Game of Thronesis that it's just people standing around talking for an hour a week until they get elaborately killed.

But yeah--it's working (or not working) for me as much as it always has. Like a lot of prestige dramas, I don't think the style and tone the show established in the early going has or will change much.

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movielocke
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Re: Game of Thrones

#77 Post by movielocke » Mon May 25, 2015 2:23 pm

Well books 4 and 5 are terrible but heavily marbled with many truly phenomenal moments and glimpses of a great story hiding under all the stasis and expansion and ponderous pointless worldbuilding crap. Not to mention the fatal mistake of adding five massive storylines with virtually all new casts effectively doubling the size of the cast of the original three books. (For the record the expanded storylines are, boltons, brienne, greyjoys, connington, and of course dornefolks ad infinitum). So I'm enjoying the compression of the adaptation, and that the show built the boltons into the story more and earlier.

That said dorne this season has been dire, and the dialogue overall is far more on the nose than before. But if it adapts 2000 pages in one season I'll take it.

And while I have loved the series for nearly fifteen years now, I feel a bit bad about after seeing Tomorrowland and it's Obama Era message of hope and change. With book seven or eight tentatively called a dream of spring, maybe there will be a silver lining to the promised bittersweet ending.

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domino harvey
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Re: Game of Thrones

#78 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:55 pm

YnEoS wrote: But I really hope this season ends on a somewhat more positive note, or at least leave us with some good character pairings to balance out the tone.
Or it could do the complete opposite!
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Cersei's walk of shame has to be the cruelest sequence in the series' history (so far, shudder), made all the more disturbing by showing it in whole, and I say this is after we see one of the more legitimate heirs to the throne sacrifice his own daughter and before we see one of the two characters that for much of the series I was certain wouldn't die get slaughtered by the own close-minded fools he'd saved for the future battle (though I'm not convinced he's finished in the series)
The series is one of frustration, it's not really meant to provide a happy ending or satisfaction without subsequently punishing its characters or the audience looking in. On the one hand the overall story's immense narrative pull and watchability always made its popularity not a surprise, but it is consistently rather unforgiving and dour for something that's become a cultural touchstone. So long as the negative pall remains true to the narrative needs and the characters, I'll keep watching. When it gets to be a joke of itself like (the not dissimilarly inclined to off its featured cast willy-nilly) Oz eventually became, maybe I'll reevaluate, but the show and the books have never been anything but mean, and that's okay. Not sure I'd devote my time and energy to a lot other series with the same tone and world view, but I can pretty easily enjoy this one.

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jindianajonz
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Re: Game of Thrones

#79 Post by jindianajonz » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:52 am

domino harvey wrote: but the show and the books have never been anything but mean
I'm a season behind on the show (though I don't mind having it spoiled for me) but I think there's a pretty big difference between how the show and books treat their respective characters. Martin seems to stand at a distance from his characters, and never allows the plot to intervene on behalf of the protagonists- when they make decisions, they must deal with all of the consequences. The show, on the other hand, seems to take a perverse pleasure in putting its characters through meat grinders, whether they earned this treatment or not. Most notable among the epsiodes I've seen was in Season 4 when
SpoilerShow
Jamie raped Cersei on top of Joffrey's casket, a scene that wasn't in the books and really served no purpose other than to show how fucked up this world/show can be.
And although I haven't watched it yet, I've heard complaints about the most recent episode how
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Jon Snow was killed more due to petty revenge than ideological differences. In the books it is clear that he has pushed the Night's Watch too far, too quickly, and that at least some of his assassins, such as Bowen Marsh, are acting more out of a desire to preserve the Watch itself than a hatred of Jon. We have the privelage of viewing the events in the fifth book from Jon's point of view, but looking at what he does from the outside- forsaking the Watch's vow to never take sides in realm conflicts and letting the Wildlings breach the wall- it's easy to understand why many would take issue with his leadership. From what I've heard of the show's version, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the politics of the attack were glossed over and the assailants were mostly Thorne cronies who just didn't like Jon.
The books have always done a great job of letting the reader understand the missteps characters take that later come back to haunt them- as shocking as events may be, we always know WHY they are happening. In the show, the violence tends to be senseless.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Game of Thrones

#80 Post by Mr Sausage » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:19 pm

I can't say I enjoyed watching the season finale. It had a single scene that was pleasurable, the amusing conversation between Tyrion, Ser Joran, and what's-his-face. Otherwise, a punishing episode.
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jindianajonz wrote:From what I've heard of the show's version, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the politics of the attack were glossed over and the assailants were mostly Thorne cronies who just didn't like Jon.
No, it's made very clear that Jon's choices regarding the Wildlings precipitated his murder, especially with the inclusion of a character loyal to Jon who turns on him for precisely that reason. Factional politics played a decent part as well, as you would expect
And I think you're exaggerating by saying the violence in the show "tends" to be senseless. Some of it fits that description, most of it is given clear motivation. I also wonder about your description of the books vs. the show. I'm given to understand that the violence in the books is often more perversely extreme than in the show. For instance, I believe Ramsay Bolton torments his wife to obscene degrees, including possibly forcing her to have sex with a dog. Ramsay's ill-treatment of Sansa in the show, however, falls well short of that and is mostly implied.

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#81 Post by dwk » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:21 am

jindianajonz wrote: I'm a season behind on the show (though I don't mind having it spoiled for me) but I think there's a pretty big difference between how the show and books treat their respective characters. Martin seems to stand at a distance from his characters, and never allows the plot to intervene on behalf of the protagonists- when they make decisions, they must deal with all of the consequences. The show, on the other hand, seems to take a perverse pleasure in putting its characters through meat grinders, whether they earned this treatment or not. Most notable among the epsiodes I've seen was in Season 4 when
SpoilerShow
Jamie raped Cersei on top of Joffrey's casket, a scene that wasn't in the books and really served no purpose other than to show how fucked up this world/show can be.
Whether GRR Martin intended it to or not, this scene
SpoilerShow
read to me as a rape. It is from Jamie's POV, Cersei tells Jamie no multiple times and tries to fight him off, only relenting when she felt he wouldn't stop.
As for the season 5 finale
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I, like everyone else, think that Jon's death with be a short one (although it is from an odd numbered book [5] in an odd numbered season [5] and those are the ones that GRRM likes to kill Stark men), but find it a curious cliffhanger as I have no idea how they'll hide Kit Harrington's filming. Even if they shoot all of it on sound stages, he'll still be spotted around town with his Jon haircut. I suppose they could have filmed the season 6 Wall stuff last year, but I don't know how that would work contractually.
While the show has caught up to all the major stuff in the book, the following happened in the fifth book but has not, and might not, happen in the show:
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I miss Manderly's Frey pies, which was probably my favorite thing in the fifth book.

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ordinaryperson
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Re: Game of Thrones

#82 Post by ordinaryperson » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:17 pm


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domino harvey
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Re: Game of Thrones

#83 Post by domino harvey » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:18 pm


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SpiderBaby
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:34 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#84 Post by SpiderBaby » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:38 pm

Randyll Tarly most likely. Would fit. Now just give me Mads for Euron.


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pzadvance
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:24 pm
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Re: Game of Thrones

#86 Post by pzadvance » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:19 pm

hot damn, what a one-two punch for the casting dept

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#87 Post by movielocke » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:23 am

Damnnnnn, perfect bloodraven casting

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#88 Post by dwk » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:45 pm


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Trees
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#89 Post by Trees » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:03 pm

Looking good.

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domino harvey
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Re: Game of Thrones

#90 Post by domino harvey » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:09 pm

Even with the new pairings and consolidations, there are so many character and plot threads that I feel like almost nothing happened all hour

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Trees
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#91 Post by Trees » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:46 am

It was solid enough. They had to tie a lot together. It's good to have Game back.

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#92 Post by knives » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:00 am

I'll agree with Dom that it's gotten too sprawling for its own good, though I think it primarily suffers from severe filler syndrome. They really need to just take a break for Martin to come up with more material.

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Trees
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#93 Post by Trees » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:18 am

Haven't a couple of good seasons started out sort of slow? I can't remember exactly but it seems like season first eps are not always the most action-packed or thrilling. Also, I don't know if it's fair to say that a lot of this severe filler, as the actual stories and plot points that are being dealt with are huge in scope and move at a brisk pace, generally speaking. I think the pace will pick up dramatically in the weeks ahead.

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nosy lena
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:40 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#94 Post by nosy lena » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:22 am

I feel like I live in another universe. Claiming this was a filler episode, or that nothing happened, seems insane to me.

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dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#95 Post by dwk » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:11 am

I don't think anything in the episode was filler (assuming Dorne actually has a big enough part in the end game that it was necessary to include it in the show), but it did feel a lot how their usual 10th episodes feel.

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Trees
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Re: Game of Thrones

#96 Post by Trees » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:42 pm

Looks like serious business next week. :shock: :D

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Polybius
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Re: Game of Thrones

#97 Post by Polybius » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:45 am

nosy lena wrote:I feel like I live in another universe.
Happens to most of us around here from time to time.

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jbeall
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Re: Game of Thrones

#98 Post by jbeall » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:56 am


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Trees
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Re: Game of Thrones

#99 Post by Trees » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:10 am

The timing of this reveal raises some issues. It makes me think they revealed her in this way to perhaps show how powerful she really is. Why....? Hmmm.... I wonder if it has anything to do with that cold, dead body on the slab nearby?

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#100 Post by movielocke » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:24 pm

Trees wrote:The timing of this reveal raises some issues. It makes me think they revealed her in this way to perhaps show how powerful she really is. Why....? Hmmm.... I wonder if it has anything to do with that cold, dead body on the slab nearby?
The Melisandre reveal made me think of Mirri Maz Dur and how she basically resurrected Khal Drogo as a 'living' body but lacking consciousness. The same could be in store for Jon Snow. I wonder if Bran is going to be the missing link in perhaps restoring Jon's consciousness from Ghost to his body (ever since ADWD was published in 2011, I've been internally groaning at GRRM's long gestating internal "joke" in naming Jon's wolf Ghost, haha very funny, Martin). I would find it very amusing if Jon is 'alive' but just an empty suit, so to speak, for the rest of the season.

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