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 Post subject: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Creators of Game of Thrones decide to use their blank check from HBO to make a series that wonders what the world would look like if the south won the Civil War

Wanna place some odds on whether this ever actually happens? Because it sounds like an intensely tone-deaf, awful idea


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Did we learn nothing from CSA?


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:15 pm 
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I cannot feasibly see this working on the same level as Game of Thrones. I mean unless they're incredibly careful about who they hire.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:16 pm 
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How will they deal with the N word?


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:05 pm 
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The online reaction has either been, at least in my short time reading reactions has either been "okay" or a legitimate "what the hell". The more I think about this the less I want this. What's worse is that even if it wasn't intended to glamorize "X" you know someone will try and claim it. I can see the racist memes already.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:09 pm 
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This will not get made.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:10 pm 
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How is it any more tone deaf than any other alternate history where the bad guys win?


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:25 pm 
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TMDaines wrote:
How is it any more tone deaf than any other alternate history where the bad guys win?

People have brought up The Man in High Castle as a defense but it doesn't seem to be working in their (HBO's) favor.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:27 pm
There are so many ways for this to go wrong, and simply offensive. They must have some particular idea in mine. There's no way they can just transport the 1800's south to present day. I would be interested in a story where those 11 states had succeeded for a time, and then are roped back into the nation. Maybe they are hit far harder by the depression, maybe one of the world wars rallies us together again. Whatever. That I can see laying the background for interesting stories, the way Leftovers initial premise was 3% of the population disappears.

I see no way in which the final story is a 2017 world where Washington DC borders a slave state. That's just too absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Is it more absurd than something like Man In The High Castle?


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:53 pm 

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Doesn't that take place back in the 60s? Which is why hitler is still alive.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:37 pm 
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TMDaines wrote:
How is it any more tone deaf than any other alternate history where the bad guys win?

Because in this country, there’s already a huge problem with people who don’t acknowledge the fact that the ideals of the confederates were roundly defeated and were deeply shameful. Nearly half of Germany isn’t flying Nazi flags in 2017.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:39 pm 
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I doubt this would be a good TV show, but I don't think there's anything morally wrong with it existing...


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Yeah, it's not inherently a bad idea, but it so easily can suffer a bad execution I would want someone a bit more talented than these guys have shown themselves to be. GoT is a great show, but the major decline once they ran out of material shows that at least when it comes to theme and politics they aren't quite ready yet. Basically you can't bring up Dick because these guys haven't proven themselves to be Dick.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:39 am 
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mfunk9786 wrote:
TMDaines wrote:
How is it any more tone deaf than any other alternate history where the bad guys win?

Because in this country, there’s already a huge problem with people who don’t acknowledge the fact that the ideals of the confederates were roundly defeated and were deeply shameful. Nearly half of Germany isn’t flying Nazi flags in 2017.
The far right is very much alive and well in across most of Europe, particularly the central part. In some places more openly than others.

It seems that the sheer presence of this show is doing what good sci-fi proposes to do and holds a mirror up to society for it to ponder anthropological and sociological questions. The problem seems to be with the deeply fucked up country you live in and not a potentially discomforting work of fiction.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:23 am 
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You think? That’s exactly why this is misguided, and why it’ll never get off the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:28 am 
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It's not like HBO haven't done 180s before, but the way Bloys spoke a out this was like they'd already given it a series order rather than a pilot or even scripts.

That said, he also mentioned production wouldn't happen until after the final run of Game of Thrones and they're talking about that maybe being pushed to 2019, so anything could happen in that time. But we're only dealing with race here, not the killing of horses, so I can see the controversy spurring them on...


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:20 pm 
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I found that odd. Isn't Game of Thrones essentially already in the can?


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:22 pm 
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No, they still have to film the final season


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Not sure where I got that misinformation, thanks. Had heard they shot them both in tandem for the purpose of letting everyone get on with their lives, etc


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:30 pm 
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They start filming in September, I believe, so soon enough it'll be true


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Interesting that ideas like this always feature a "what if the Confederacy had persisted to the present day" instead of "what if African-Americans got fed up with persecution and declared war on white people and wiped them out?".

Also, note how in this passage
Quote:
The story follows a broad swath of characters on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Demilitarized Zone — freedom fighters, slave hunters, politicians, abolitionists, journalists, the executives of a slave-holding conglomerate and the families of people in their thrall.

slaves are never explicitly named. Sure, you can infer it from "families of people in their thrall" etc, but the pitch never explicitly identifies some kind of black subjectivity. Maybe it'd be awesome, but just from the initial descriptions, this sounds like a horrible, offensive idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:09 pm 
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jbeall wrote:
Interesting that ideas like this always feature a "what if the Confederacy had persisted to the present day" instead of "what if African-Americans got fed up with persecution and declared war on white people and wiped them out?"

Given that they've set the premise as an "alternate history", I wonder if they might change the perspective from one of a purely racial divide to that of a class struggle -- with well-to-do whites AND African-Americans both portrayed as slaveowners of the lower class, regardless of race. I could just see a prestige show like this incorporating such a twist because it's HBO, and they like to put out edgy fare to keep audiences on their toes.

I can't say I'm optimistic, but I wish them well on their endeavor.


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 Post subject: Re: Confederate
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:21 pm 
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I’m sure it’ll be much more sanctimonious - a wall at the Mason-Dixon Line, those north of it relatively saintly, those south of it sinister and greedy. Yawn. I hope I’m proven wrong but even if this does happen it just sounds so predictable and boring. It’s usually shows without a massively high initial concept that manage to find cliffhangers and suspense that is more deeply felt because it hangs on genuinely unpredictable character and plot moments, not the creators revealing the “true nature” of anything. Those sorts of twists work well in films, but in TV shows they’re usually underwhelming.


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