Insatiable

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Brian C
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Re: Insatiable

#26 Post by Brian C » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:30 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:Not that I think a petition like this is anything but 'good publicity,' but I think the idea is that they don't want to see anything besides a trailer
Well, that’s a very easily achievable goal which hardly requires a petition.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Insatiable

#27 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:42 pm

Very true.

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Gregory
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Re: Insatiable

#28 Post by Gregory » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:58 pm

The point of the petition is not that the signers don't want to see the show, it's about the social harm that results from the reproducing several very controversial yet familiar tropes that are woven into the very premise of the show, so it's not about how the premise is executed. The response that criticisms of the premise should be silenced until everyone has had a chance to see the show is evasive, failing to address the criticisms that have come out resoundingly about the basic core of the show's premise and the story's jumping-off point.

It's a lot like if there was a new series (a big reach here, brace yourself) all about a teenage girl who was a sad, miserable outcast because she was overweight but who lost weight by becoming bulimic, no one could believe how HOT she was, and she suddenly had power and a voice as a result of that transformation. If that's really the premise of the show, and the trailer clearly showed that, then "wait to see the series before judging it" wouldn't really cut it as a response.

The problem is that it's impossible to say that any show should be preemptively canceled without becoming the pro-censorship side. But I would bet that most of those who signed the petition would not demand that the show never be shown but that it should be rethought and retooled in some ways, if that's what this outcry is telling the creators to do.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Insatiable

#29 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:03 pm

Luckily, art isn't made by committee. I think this show looks misguided and dumb in the extreme, but in no way should it have to be retooled to satisfy the expectations of its theoretical audience.

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Gregory
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Re: Insatiable

#30 Post by Gregory » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:15 pm

Most art isn't made by committee with its audience and the social media response in mind, but a high-profile TV series sure is. That's why the Heathers reboot was scrapped: there was no way they could pretend like people's opinions and expectations about highly charged issues didn't matter. If they go too far into areas that are painful and hurtful to people, they're sunk, sometimes even before the first season can be reviewed.
Networks roll these trailers out with the clear hope that they'll generate a lot of buzz, but if it blows up in their face and doesn't go their way they can cry foul and say it's unfair?

connor
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:03 pm

Re: Insatiable

#31 Post by connor » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:51 pm

This bizarre fit of hysteria that's enraptured the liberal professional classes, particularly the media, since Trump's election is really grating on me. And I can't wait for it to end.

Liberals are the new Reaganite suburban Christians fretting about Satanic rock music.

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Brian C
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Re: Insatiable

#32 Post by Brian C » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:08 pm

Gregory wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:58 pm
It's a lot like if there was a new series (a big reach here, brace yourself) all about a teenage girl who was a sad, miserable outcast because she was overweight but who lost weight by becoming bulimic, no one could believe how HOT she was, and she suddenly had power and a voice as a result of that transformation. If that's really the premise of the show, and the trailer clearly showed that, then "wait to see the series before judging it" wouldn't really cut it as a response.
This is assuming the outcome, isn't it? How would anyone know if the trailer is a true representation of the show before seeing the show?
The problem is that it's impossible to say that any show should be preemptively canceled without becoming the pro-censorship side. But I would bet that most of those who signed the petition would not demand that the show never be shown but that it should be rethought and retooled in some ways, if that's what this outcry is telling the creators to do.
Well, I don't know where you get that from, but attributing motives to signers of the petition that are counter to the stated goal of the petition seems like a convenient way to resolve the particular ethical problem that you've identified.

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Cameron Swift
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Re: Insatiable

#33 Post by Cameron Swift » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:17 pm

Marina Hyde of The Guardian had a good piece about this last week.

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Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm

Re: Insatiable

#34 Post by Gregory » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:48 pm

Brian C wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:08 pm
Gregory wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:58 pm
It's a lot like if there was a new series (a big reach here, brace yourself) all about a teenage girl who was a sad, miserable outcast because she was overweight but who lost weight by becoming bulimic, no one could believe how HOT she was, and she suddenly had power and a voice as a result of that transformation. If that's really the premise of the show, and the trailer clearly showed that, then "wait to see the series before judging it" wouldn't really cut it as a response.
This is assuming the outcome, isn't it? How would anyone know if the trailer is a true representation of the show before seeing the show?
The trailer is a carefully crafted representation of the show's story and basic premise, as I was arguing before. If there was somehow a huge misjudgment and something has been misunderstood, Netflix would do well to release a new trailer immediately that better captures what the show is about, but I don't think that will happen.
Brian C wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:08 pm
Gregory wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:58 pm
The problem is that it's impossible to say that any show should be preemptively canceled without becoming the pro-censorship side. But I would bet that most of those who signed the petition would not demand that the show never be shown but that it should be rethought and retooled in some ways, if that's what this outcry is telling the creators to do.
Well, I don't know where you get that from, but attributing motives to signers of the petition that are counter to the stated goal of the petition seems like a convenient way to resolve the particular ethical problem that you've identified.
I based what I said about signatories' motives by having read many of their comments online, which go well beyond the explicit language of the petition. It's common for people to sign a petition without necessarily agreeing with its most strident positions or feeling that their exact views are captured by the language of the petition. Anyway, the petition is only a symptom of the much larger response to Netflix's launch of the show. The petition itself wouldn't doom the show, the larger public response would. The former just gives a number that can be reported.
I'm not trying to find a "convenient" way to resolve the problem I posed about calls for preemptive cancellation being censorious. I'm just trying to explain what I think is going on. I'm not especially invested in whether this (seeming, based on the trailer) trainwreck is cancelled or survives to really face the music.

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McCrutchy
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Re: Insatiable

#35 Post by McCrutchy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:29 pm

I doubt Netflix cares about cutting or censoring the show before they've even shown it. At this point, all the reaction has done is taken a show only so many would have watched and probably enlarged those viewership numbers by several orders of magnitude. And with Netflix's habit of vomiting out (EDIT: Uh-oh, poor choice of words, considering...) the entire season of a series all at once, that's even less incentive as everyone who watches will have the opportunity to view the entire finished season immediately.

As for the petition, I haven't looked, but I doubt there is any way to even trace back the signatories to see if any or all have Netflix accounts, not that Netflix would really care either way about that, either. At this point, the only thing that will matter are the reactions to the finished product.

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Boosmahn
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Re: Insatiable

#36 Post by Boosmahn » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:32 am

connor wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:51 pm
This bizarre fit of hysteria that's enraptured the liberal professional classes, particularly the media, since Trump's election is really grating on me. And I can't wait for it to end.

Liberals are the new Reaganite suburban Christians fretting about Satanic rock music.
Trust me, not all liberals are like this.

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Insatiable

#37 Post by DarkImbecile » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:03 pm


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The Narrator Returns
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Re: Insatiable

#38 Post by The Narrator Returns » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:23 pm

I may be a hysterical liberal here, but holy shit, this sounds loathsome in pretty much every way.

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domino harvey
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Re: Insatiable

#39 Post by domino harvey » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:28 pm

Just sounds unfunny, not abhorrent

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mfunk9786
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Re: Insatiable

#40 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:35 pm

I know your whole brand is to be the steady, unfazed guy Dom, but this show sounds like absolutely abhorrent fat-shaming horseshit. Was hoping for the sake of the creatives involved that it was all just a misunderstanding, but that review is really confirming the biggest concerns about it. How does this even fit into the cultural landscape in 2018?

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Big Ben
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Re: Insatiable

#41 Post by Big Ben » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:12 pm

It's interesting to see the showrunner try and frame the show as subversive. It never ceases to fascinate me that some people think that the simple inclusion of these topics is somehow intelligent rather than some tonally bizarre and mean punchline. What can you say about a show that's entire premise is tasteless as this is a whole smorgasbord of stupidity. I mean I expect transphobic jokes, racism and shaming people's bodies only from legitimate assholes these days (Roseanne Barr for instance!) not in somewhat tolerant places like Netflix. It's very clearly an intentional punching down and I think it's perfectly rational to call it out on that and I say that as a fairly magnanimous lefty.

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Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm

Re: Insatiable

#42 Post by Gregory » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:02 pm

Having read Alyssa Milano's defenses of the series, the most striking things to me were the careful avoidance of addressing any of the specific criticisms of the show and how it was represented in the trailer (the earlier refrain that the show was being misjudged by misunderstandings of the trailer now seems to have departed from the conversation), retreating instead into glib, vague statements of things that rarely go beyond the obvious: that the show "touches on" important issues of body image and that this is so empowering because it's so important in our society. The mere fact that there is a show whose source of comedy is fat-shaming and related insecurity and spite is being sold as "so empowering," because it causes everyone to somehow "deal with" these "issues." (Terms in quotes are a few of the ones often run into the ground in interviews)
I felt so empowered by doing a show that touched on all of these issues. So empowered, in fact, that I felt that I could have the freedom to write that #MeToo tweet, because that happened in the middle of production. I felt so empowered that I wrote my op-ed for TIME magazine about having my anxiety disorder. So, for me, the backlash was personally hurtful, because as we were filming the show, it was so empowering to find myself through the work that everyone was doing. (People)
She seems to be doing everything she can to use the political capital of #MeToo to try to get people to receive Insatiable as something empowering. It was for her, so apparently that's all that matters?
Chris [Gorham, who plays Bob Barnard] had to deal with body image while we were filming. He had to deal with crash dieting and all of those things that women in this industry have had to deal with for decades. One of the great aspects of our show is it’s not just the women that have to deal with it, the men deal with it as well. (Parade)
What I get from this is that the show is progressive because it's equal-opportunity unhealthy, and not just commenting on unhealthy things like crash dieting but perpetuating them for the people working on the show, notably in Gorham repeatedly being shirtless in a way that Netflix viewers want to see. So glad we're finally "dealing with" these issues!
Last edited by Gregory on Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Insatiable

#43 Post by Rayon Vert » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:26 pm

Gregory wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:02 pm
Chris [Gorham, who plays Bob Barnard] had to deal with body image while we were filming. He had to deal with crash dieting and all of those things that women in this industry have had to deal with for decades. One of the great aspects of our show is it’s not just the women that have to deal with it, the men deal with it as well. (Parade)
That quote really equates "dealing with body image" with "doing what you have to do to become thin" (as opposed to something like accepting and appreciating your body as it is).

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domino harvey
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Re: Insatiable

#44 Post by domino harvey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:05 pm


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Big Ben
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Re: Insatiable

#45 Post by Big Ben » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:54 pm

Huh. Makes me wonder about that rumor mfunk posted about. I'd prefer it not to be true.

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