Twin Peaks

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mpavilion
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Re: Twin Peaks

#976 Post by mpavilion » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:33 am

That piece is interesting, but exhausting, and almost comically "totalizing." It feels sort of against the spirit of TP (which I think is resistant to explantion in fundamental ways) not only to "connect (all) the dots," but draw a whole field of new dots before connecting them. (Also, it has some odd bits -- the car isn't "rickety 80s-vintage," it's a model from the '60s... which wouldn't look totally out-of-place in the '80s, so I suppose the point is the same.)

I'm more into post-mortems like Cde.'s excellent post a few pages back, and this one.

Anyway, if the NM girl is Sarah (which I agree is implied, if not totally certain), I have trouble wrapping my head around how she and Leland happened to come together... both infected from childhood by these terrible, related demons. (Did they meet at the world's worst singles bar?) Plus, their daughter appears to have been sent from the heavens, Christ-like, to suffer and be sacrificed at their hands. Was it all just "pre-ordained"? The Fireman sent down Laura's essence to be born to this couple, which was already possessed (on both sides) by an ancient evil? It feels so "hermetic," but maybe that's the point... and why Coop was so foolhardy to try to get in the middle of it?

(I personally don't feel like the theme of "Sarah as evil" was present in the first series or movie; she seemed genuinely protective of Laura; Leland was sedating her; etc. But I'm sure this can be explained / addressed in various ways.)

Cde.
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Re: Twin Peaks

#977 Post by Cde. » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:09 am

It's a great theory because, while most fan attempts to literalise work like this turn out to be an exercise in wilful missing of the point, it posits a literal narrative that is entirely consistent with the themes and emotions that can be intuited when processing the episodes on an abstract, metaphorical level.

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Mr. Deltoid
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Re: Twin Peaks

#978 Post by Mr. Deltoid » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:47 am

A published book of narrative footnotes to this series would potentially be the size of the Bible! I thoroughly enjoyed this series, even though I'm not a huge fan of the original, which I think is vastly over-rated in relation to Lynch's other work. It was supremely entertaining; intriguing, unnerving, moving, but above all, frequently laugh-out-loud funny. I know people love these dense, puzzle-box narratives, but the whole Laura Palmer stuff ceased to be of much interest to me a long time ago. What really engaged me this time round was the quieter scenes that seemed to orbit around the grander myths of the series; the random snatches of conversation in the roadhouse, the Green Onions musical-break, Dougie's Tati-like office routine, all of Harry Dean Stanton's bits and the heartbreaking scenes with the log-lady. It may be heresy to some, but I found all that White Lodge stuff concerning the Giant (the Orbs, the floating heads, etc.) - as integral to the myth as they be - rather silly, though not as silly as ep. 17 and the "let's wrap it all up here pretty quickly in super-conventional, sub-Buffy-like manner", which, though a deliberate move by Lynch, still felt rather tacky.
Episode 18 was great though. I hope that's it - leave 'em wanting more!
One observation about that final episode: did anyone else think that scene where Cooper (or whatever he's called now) stops at Carrie Page's house in Odessa reminiscent of the penultimate scene in Kubrick's Lolita? There Humbert, having lost Lolita years before, arrives to find her older, married, expecting a child; she is no-longer 'his' Lolita (she now goes by a different name), she has changed. I find it a rather sad scene and those strange emotional currents were there in episode 18 as well. I know Lynch is a big fan of Kubrick's film as mentioned here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exHvm8yXndQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All in all a most entertaining series. We probably won't see it's like again!

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Twin Peaks

#979 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:43 am

Good catch on the Lolita connection; really, the whole Laura Palmer saga feels like a darker riff on the Nabokov story (with Palmer's relationship with Dr. Jacoby similar to Lolita's relationship with Clare Quilty).

I agree that David Auerbach's interpretation is a good one, even if it just helps figuring out the mechanics of the plot. However, he's way off on the model of the car Cooper and Diane are driving in (it's from '63, not the 80s).

The multiple references to The Little Girl Who Lives Down The Lane (the film or the book) can't be arbitrary - the story of an abused teen who turns malevolent herself is pretty much the subtext for the entire season of Twin Peaks: The Return with its numerous children and young adults in thrall of drugs and violence.

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R0lf
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Re: Twin Peaks

#980 Post by R0lf » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:10 am

jindianajonz wrote:
cdobbs wrote:As mentioned elsewhere jiao dai roughly means "to explain."
I hate to cast any doubt on an awesome theory, but I keep seeing this and am a bit skeptical. Perhaps somebody who actually speaks the language can chime in, but my Mandarin speaking friends say that the "Jow Day" (Jiao Dei) pronunciation in the show doesn't really mean anything. "Jow Dye" (Jiao Dai) means tape, while the "to explain" definition seems to stem from "Jow Dow" (Jiao Dao) which is "to teach".

Still, I think it's in keeping with Lynch's overall philosophy to not let little details like this distract from an otherwise wonderful interpretation.

EDIT: I may have been wrong. Apparently they are referring to "Jiāo Dài", which more or less means "explain" but my friends say is more accurately translated as "instruct", like when telling a friend the steps for taking care of your dog while you are out of town.
Or if you use phonetics Judy is is just Dougie backwards the same way Naido is Diane.

mpavilion
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Re: Twin Peaks

#981 Post by mpavilion » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:30 pm

mpavilion wrote:That piece is interesting, but exhausting, and almost comically "totalizing." It feels sort of against the spirit of TP (which I think is resistant to explantion in fundamental ways) not only to "connect (all) the dots," but draw a whole field of new dots before connecting them. (Also, it has some odd bits -- the car isn't "rickety 80s-vintage," it's a model from the '60s... which wouldn't look totally out-of-place in the '80s, so I suppose the point is the same.)

I'm more into post-mortems like Cde.'s excellent post a few pages back, and this one.

Anyway, if the NM girl is Sarah (which I agree is implied, if not totally certain), I have trouble wrapping my head around how she and Leland happened to come together... both infected from childhood by these terrible, related demons. (Did they meet at the world's worst singles bar?) Plus, their daughter appears to have been sent from the heavens, Christ-like, to suffer and be sacrificed at their hands. Was it all just "pre-ordained"? The Fireman sent down Laura's essence to be born to this couple, which was already possessed (on both sides) by an ancient evil? It feels so "hermetic," but maybe that's the point... and why Coop was so foolhardy to try to get in the middle of it?

(I personally don't feel like the theme of "Sarah as evil" was present in the first series or movie; she seemed genuinely protective of Laura; Leland was sedating her; etc. But I'm sure this can be explained / addressed in various ways.)
One more point, to build on my post above -- a piece published this morning on the "25 Years Later Site" makes some points about Sarah that sort of fit the way I've been thinking about her. (Lest it seem like I'm promoting this site, as I've posted a few links to it -- it's just a site I've come across, I'm not connected to it in any way.)

I really question the idea that Sarah has been "possessed" from birth -- or, more specifically, that she was possessed in the original series -- I think it happened after Laura's death. That said, I don't have an alternative explanation for who the New Mexico girl may be.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#982 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:37 pm

In a rather appropriate (for this thread anyway) turn of events, I cannot see what is apparently the newest post by mpavilion here.

mpavilion
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Re: Twin Peaks

#983 Post by mpavilion » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:45 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:In a rather appropriate (for this thread anyway) turn of events, I cannot see what is apparently the newest post by mpavilion here.
Weird... next my handle will change to "Chalfont"!

Cde.
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Re: Twin Peaks

#984 Post by Cde. » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:49 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:In a rather appropriate (for this thread anyway) turn of events, I cannot see what is apparently the newest post by mpavilion here.
I couldn't see her/his post at the top of the page until hours after I posted what has now the second post of the page. Are we sure mpavilion isn't going back to alter the dream?

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domino harvey
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Re: Twin Peaks

#985 Post by domino harvey » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Not to spoil the mystery, by mpavilion is a new poster and needed their initial posts approved by a moderator before they could be visible to non-mods in the thread. Or they're a ghost

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Re: Twin Peaks

#986 Post by mpavilion » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:02 pm

Yes, sorry, I'm new here.... drawn by the great discussion!

Robin Davies
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Re: Twin Peaks

#987 Post by Robin Davies » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:49 pm

R0lf wrote:Or if you use phonetics Judy is is just Dougie backwards.
I don't understand this!

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swo17
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Re: Twin Peaks

#988 Post by swo17 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:54 pm

Switch the 'g' and 'd' and pronounce the 'g' as soft. I guess.

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geoffcowgill
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Re: Twin Peaks

#989 Post by geoffcowgill » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:01 pm

Mr. Deltoid wrote:A published book of narrative footnotes to this series would potentially be the size of the Bible!
It occurred to me at some point in the series, probably not long after episode eight, that The Return could very well be for the medium of narrative television what Ulysses was for the novel, a work that simultaneously elevates and decimates the medium itself. Has there been, could there be, a more audacious, uncompromising (and thrillingly so) show on TV? And like Joyce's novel, it's in a sense a sequel and a remake both, with the original series and FWWM acting in a somewhat equivalent way to how Portrait of the Artist and The Odyssey function for Ulysses. It's a summation of a singular artist's vision, concerns, and gifts, a magnum opus in the truest sense. It will surely enthrall and baffle those intrepid enough to explore it in the future, engendering an ocean of think-pieces and densely annotated exegeses, as much as it dazzles us now.

So what will be Lynch's Finnegans Wake?

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Re: Twin Peaks

#990 Post by knives » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:04 pm

We'll know when he's dead.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#991 Post by Robin Davies » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:22 pm

I rather like this theory:
https://ozba.wordpress.com/2017/08/31/t ... e-a-dream/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Twin Peaks

#992 Post by mpavilion » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:35 pm

Robin Davies wrote:I rather like this theory:
https://ozba.wordpress.com/2017/08/31/t ... e-a-dream/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yeah, I like a lot in there -- it goes the furthest I've seen with the "metatextual" element of The Return (which I think is a big deal). Though perhaps a bit TOO far... I think Coop has to have driven Carrie to at least some version of a "Twin Peaks, WA", in the eastern part of the state; how would he have known to take on her a tour of disparate shooting locations in the Seattle area (Everett, for the Palmer house; and North Bend, for the diner)?

P.S. Richard & Linda Thompson was the only "real world" reference in my head for "Richard and Linda," throughout the series... I like that the above theory found a way to work them in. (I guess "Shoot Out the Lights" may also describe what happens in the final frames of Pt. 18, haha...)

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Twin Peaks

#993 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:59 pm

mpavilion wrote: P.S. Richard & Linda Thompson was the only "real world" reference in my head for "Richard and Linda," throughout the series... I like that the above theory found a way to work them in. (I guess "Shoot Out the Lights" may also describe what happens in the final frames of Pt. 18, haha...)
As soon as the Giant said the names "Richard" and "Linda" in the opening scene, I immediately thought of the Thompsons as well. I also love the fact that one of the original Platters is named David Lynch, and one of the records he sings on is "My Prayer", featured so prominently in Episodes 8 and 18.

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John Cope
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Re: Twin Peaks

#994 Post by John Cope » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:17 pm


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Re: Twin Peaks

#995 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:33 pm

John Cope wrote:Another excellent theory.
Wow, you’re burying the lede - the fact that these sync up so well simultaneously, coupled with the hints Lynch leaves in the form of Cooper superimposed, etc - wow wow wow wow wow.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#996 Post by mpavilion » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:17 pm

Have any scholars of Pt. 8 attempted a "reading" of the head's-up penny, and the fact that the "Gotta light?" Woodsman resembles Abraham Lincoln -- to the point of being portrayed by an actor who specializes in playing Lincoln and related characters?

I could attempt a riff based on the bomb test -- a dark force at the heart of America, infecting even its noblest institutions and conceptions of itself... but that's really just grasping at straws.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#997 Post by swo17 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:32 pm

John Cope wrote:Another excellent theory.
Hmmm...probably too many coincidences to be accidental, though some of the connections made here seem like a stretch. Still, who even thinks to do something like this? Also, how long now until someone tries to sync up the first nine episodes with the last nine played in reverse?

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Re: Twin Peaks

#998 Post by Cde. » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:59 am

mpavilion wrote:Have any scholars of Pt. 8 attempted a "reading" of the head's-up penny, and the fact that the "Gotta light?" Woodsman resembles Abraham Lincoln -- to the point of being portrayed by an actor who specializes in playing Lincoln and related characters?

I could attempt a riff based on the bomb test -- a dark force at the heart of America, infecting even its noblest institutions and conceptions of itself... but that's really just grasping at straws.
I think that's very much on the right track - it's a mirror of Laura Palmer, a girl who's innocence makes her beloved of the gods of this universe, being corrupted into the figure we see in Fire Walk With Me by the pervasiveness of evil at work around her.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#999 Post by BigMack3000 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:28 am

Someone made a short clip of the endings to ep. 17 & 18 overlapped:

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R0lf
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1000 Post by R0lf » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:25 am

The reason episodes synchronise is probably just because it was the same person editing them and repeating their time cues.

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