The Conformist

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Arcadean · #26 Post by **Arcadean** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:16 pm

I love this movie. I wouldn't miss it for anything (almost anything).

mute nostril agony · #27 Post by **mute nostril agony** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:44 pm

I'd like to watch it again but won't be able to, it airs at 11pm where I'm at. I wish I had Tivo, grah.

Oedipax · #28 Post by **Oedipax** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:06 am

Hmm. It's the English dub.

Uh, did anyone just lose sound? About 38 minutes in...

Michael · #29 Post by **Michael** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:07 am

My first experience.

It was dubbed in English and the sound went out for a few minutes. I thought there was something wrong with my TV. I was very disappointed.

The visuals alone were enough to keep me up till 4 am. Great ending!

Arcadean · #30 Post by **Arcadean** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:10 am

What crap dubbing. I saw this in Italian with English subtitles a while ago and was enthralled. The dubbing annoyed the heck out of me and that one silent scene was just strange. The quality looked like VHS to me. I was thoroughly disappointed.

Still, Storaro's cinematography and Delerue's score got through. That scene on the train... *swoon*

Polybius · #31 Post by **Polybius** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:17 am

Yes, the sound went down for maybe 5 minutes.

Isn't there an Italian version extant?

That said, that was, hands down, the nicest print I've ever seen of it. When I've watched it before on Cinemax or Encore, it's always looked a little washed out and faded (as atcolomb mentioned a few months ago. )

Isn't that song from the Victrola at the end the same song that was being sung in the adjoining studio that day years before when Marcello was discussing his impending marriage with Italo, right before he (Italo) went on to do his broadcast?

numediaman2 · #32 Post by **numediaman2** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:46 am

This version was on TV not that long ago -- I think it was one of the HBO channels. In any case, I recorded that version and dumped it as soon as I realized it was dubbed. I recorded last nights, as well, and will dump it.

Why would TCM broadcast a dubbed version of this and call it part of their "Import" series? False advertising if you ask me.

Michael · #33 Post by **Michael** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:25 am

Why would TCM broadcast a dubbed version of this and call it part of their "Import" series? False advertising if you ask me.

Exactly my thought.

Anyway, despite the ugly English dubbing and the poor quality, a few moments continue to stay with me. The scene on the train.. oh my god. How did they do that?! I also love that scene with the woman in a black and white dress dancing with light shifting through the blinds. What about the bathroom scene with the mother? The last shot of the film with the fire glowing on Marcello's face with that music playing chills me like no other film has done in the recent memory.

Vittoro Storaro's work is insanely inspiring and beautiful. I can easily see why some people call him the best cinematographer. Some of the shots from the film brought my mind to some recent films In The Mood For Love and 2046 and also oddly enough A Very Long Engagement.

The Conformist has a great potential in becoming one of my favorite films ever. I now desperately want to see it in the most proper treatment.

Lino · #34 Post by **Lino** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:55 am

I think that a possible explanation for the lack of sound on that particular part of the film might be that this is the longer international cut of the movie and not the american one.

Wasn't a thread not so long ago dedicated to this film and someone mentioned that Paramount did not know what to do with it because no dubbing had been made for the longer cut and as a result it was left in DVD limbo? Anyway, if that is the case, it makes sense however stupid the decision to play it on TV without sound for that lenght of time seems to be. Geez, are americans that avert to reading subtitles?

Apart from that, I'm glad this film is finally reaching the point in which an official DVD release is imminent. I have the italian dub on tape for the longest time (also taped it from TV) and cannot wait for the day that I dump it in the trash bin!

Arcadean · #35 Post by **Arcadean** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:22 am

Vittorio Storaro explains whats going on with the DVD process:

"I really hope that Paramount will release a DVD of The Conformist. I just recently wrote a letter with Bernardo Bertolucci to Paramount. And you will have a little surprise if it happens."

"A few years ago when I did the video transfer, I discovered in the original negative the scene that Bertolucci cut originally, but Paramount cut only the matrix to release the picture."

"But not the original. The scene was still in the original negative. And that is why there is a delay in release of the DVD because they don't know how to translate this sequence in English without having the same actors as a few years ago. So with Bertolucci, we suggested to put just subtitles on this sequence, and release the DVD with this original scene."

"It was a beautiful scene connected with colors, it was a party with the best friend of the leading character, a blind person. And in order to make a big present to somebody that can see, they put in this place all colored lights, something they can experience. So I hope the audience can enjoy this scene in the new DVD."

-This was written in December of 2000.

Lino · #36 Post by **Lino** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:48 am

So I guess that my memory did not fail me. I just realized right now that that letter was written 5 (!) years ago! Paramount, you naughty, naughty people! Couldn't they just release it in a similar way like it was done with the Anchor Bay edition of Deep Red and put subtitles where and when needed? That couldn't be so hard, right? Good grief!

ben d banana · #37 Post by **ben d banana** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:16 pm

Polybius wrote:Isn't there an Italian version extant?

Playing here next week.

America is hardly the only country that, as a rule, prefers dubbing to subtitling. Oh, but for us enlightened few.

atcolomb · #38 Post by **atcolomb** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:23 pm

I also recorded the TCM broadcast last night but have not had a chance to see it yet. In 1990 or 1991 BRAVO (I miss the early BRAVO!!!) did show The Conformist letterboxed and subtitled only once and i recorded it on my vcr but i had a bad connection with a video cable and the picture was distorted. I could not tell how good the print was but it was much better than the poor washed out color and pan & scan vhs and the laserdisc version of the movie. I think TCM would have shown it subtitled but only had this version to show on tv but this is the best we can do to see this untill it shows up on dvd.

numediaman2 · #39 Post by **numediaman2** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:51 pm

Really, TCM should be ashamed of themselves. They try to score points by advocating film restoration, then go ahead and show an important film in the wrong language.

If TCM showed this version as part of their regular schedule I might not mind. But by including it as part of their "imports" series, they are basically saying that any foreign film can be shamelessly manipulated because it is not in English. This seems like a major contradiction.

atcolomb · #40 Post by **atcolomb** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:02 pm

I am surprised too that TCM would show a foreign film dubbed! I watch TCM alot and most of the foreign films they show on tv are subtitled so maybe they had no choice but to show this version?

mute nostril agony · #41 Post by **mute nostril agony** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:18 pm

Wow. I can't believe TCM showed the dubbed version. It wasn't pan-and-scan right?? I saw that vers. quite a long time ago (not in its entirety). I'm not sure if the screening I went to recently (Italian w/ subtitles) was an archive print or a newly restored print. It was the second screening of it in LA within a few months (one at the LA FIlm Festival and another at the LA County Museum of ARt), so I surely thought it was a restored one or something, and coinciding with that, TCM would show that version.

By the way, was the often cut "dance of the blind" sequence included in last night's version?

atcolomb · #42 Post by **atcolomb** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:26 pm

Before i went to work this morning i turned on my dvd recorder and
played about 10 seconds of it and it was letterboxed but did not have
the sound on so now when i get home i will watch the whole film.

chaddoli · #43 Post by **chaddoli** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:47 pm

With the dvd coming EVENTUALLY (I hear August), should I even watch this tape? I taped it last night and now that I see it's dubbed, I don't even really want to watch it unless its the proper version.

Also, if you want to complain to TCM, send them an email.

Polybius · #44 Post by **Polybius** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:43 pm

It was in it's proper 1.85:1 aspect ratio.

Personally, I thought the print was beautiful, considerably better than the ones I've seen before.

Dance Of The Blind was included, without sound, making many of us check our mute buttons and/or test our hearing.

It was, alas, dubbed.

Sanda and Sandrelli were both astonishingly beautiful in 1970.

Americans are somewhat subtitle averse, but Americans watching TCM at 2:00 A.M EDT on Friday night/Saturday morning generally are not. I'm guessing it was this or nothing.

Michael · #45 Post by **Michael** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:54 am

The Conformist 's story isn't special. Other Italian directors had done it better. While watching the film, my mind kept staggering away to Fellini or Pasolini. What makes this film special is the breathtaking, orgasmatic cinematography and of course, the music - the only things that kept my attention. But is that enough? I'm not sure. Like I wrote earlier, I can see why some people adore Storaro, calling him the best DP working, etc. But to me, it's still Christopher Doyle. I don't think I've seen color photography more beautiful than In The Mood For Love / 2046.

Edit: Or is it wrong to even care about this film if the director himself doesn't care about seeing it getting a decent treatment? Or at least helping what most think is his greatest achievement to get a better exposure, like DVD and so on? Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

atcolomb · #46 Post by **atcolomb** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:17 pm

I finaly saw it last night and did a comparison between the TCM broadcast and the BRAVO broadcast i taped 14 years ago. The BRAVO version had the image all the way at the top so there was no black bar on the top with all the black at the bottom for all the subtitles to be shown. The TCM version was alittle darker and i had no problems with the sound. I think the version BRAVO had on was i think a better picture and the original italian soundtrack. I would be interested to find out why TCM played The Conformist dubbed instead of the original soundtrack.

mute nostril agony · #47 Post by **mute nostril agony** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:22 pm

ByronTheBulb wrote:Bertolucci could have given us at least one close up of the boy during this sequence, some psychological insight, but it's just done so flatly. The tension is non-existent.

I felt there was no tension pretty much throughout the entire film. At certain points, it starts to feel like performance art. Like something that you should only look at, for its esthetic value.

#48 Post by **zedz** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:05 pm

Michael wrote: Like I wrote earlier, I can see why some people adore Storaro, calling him the best DP working, etc. But to me, it's still Christopher Doyle. I don't think I've seen color photography more beautiful than In The Mood For Love / 2046.

You need to see Doyle's work on Fruit Chan's Dumplings. As a film, it's not up to those two, but it's the most gorgeously shot film I've seen for a long time, and it also shows Doyle moving away from his established WKW style.

I'm afraid I agree with you about The Conformist being overrated. Visually exquisite (especially on the big screen), but nothing special dramatically or in terms of performance. But I'm pretty much a skeptic when it comes to Bertolucci.

ltfontaine · #49 Post by **ltfontaine** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:21 pm

i would have hoped that if tcm knew they were screening the dubbed version that Robert Osborne could have included an apology in his openning or closing remarks. Maybe TCM didn't recieve the digibeta of the restored/subtitled print in time?

TCM initially screened a dubbed print of "Rocco and His Brothers," then upgraded to a subtitled version for subsequent showings. Perhaps this will be the case with "The Conformist."

Polybius · #50 Post by **Polybius** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:00 am

And, just in case there was any doubt, Osborne specifically mentioned in his introduction that this was it's TCM premiere.