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Discuss internationally-released DVDs and Blu-rays or other international DVD and Blu-ray-related topics.
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domino harvey
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Re: DVDBeaver

#526 Post by domino harvey » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:53 pm

This isn’t a public figure or a provocative comedian. This is an account called ProWhitesUnite...

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Rayon Vert
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Re: DVDBeaver

#527 Post by Rayon Vert » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:17 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:50 pm
He follows a literal white supremacy Twitter account. There is no nuance here. I am flabbergasted at the responses of some of you— I’m the one that always gets flack for being skeptical or laissez-faire, but there’s no ambiguity here. He follows an account that advocates for the superiority of the white race and that posts/retweets nothing but tweets to that effect. Did none of you bother to visit the account before defending his choice here?
I'm guilty of not having bothered, although just by the name of the account of course I find it completely reprehensible.

However my approval of furbicide’s post expressed my wariness in jumping to serious, character-defining, publicly-shared conclusions about an individual merely based on his or her Twitter account-follows.

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Big Ben
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Re: DVDBeaver

#528 Post by Big Ben » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:19 pm

domino is on the money here. ProWhitesUnite is an actively pro white nationalist account. It peddles in all manner of conspiracies ranging from everything from Racial IQ Science to Antisemitic Paranoia. The banner on the Twitter account has a link to a Youtube video praising Adolf Hitler.

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Re: DVDBeaver

#529 Post by MichaelB » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:32 pm

I'm not disputing any of this - but I note that my specific question has yet to be answered.

Following ≠ endorsement.

(Christ, if that was the case, I'd be tying myself up in knots every time I went on Twitter!)

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domino harvey
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Re: DVDBeaver

#530 Post by domino harvey » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:49 pm

Because it’s not a meaningful distinction? Unless you’re monitoring for Southern Poverty Law et al (and in which case you still wouldn’t use your public account or do so without some kind of public caveat), by following a white supremacy account you are either a white supremicist or don’t mind being thought of as one.

There’s no need for hypotheticals or parallels to things that are not this. The actual scenario here is Gary follows an account solely devoted to supporting white supremacy.

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The Narrator Returns
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Re: DVDBeaver

#531 Post by The Narrator Returns » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:13 pm

I'm 100% with domino here, and some of the other responses are getting pretty close to this territory;

Image

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tenia
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Re: DVDBeaver

#532 Post by tenia » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:47 pm

Guess I'll be the one dropping Gary an email to know what's what instead of trying to get into his brain by Twitter's feed procuration.

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Re: DVDBeaver

#533 Post by MichaelB » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:50 pm

Don't bother - I've already done it, and unsurprisingly Gary has confirmed to me that he does not endorse ProWhitesUnite in any way, shape or form, and that he is categorically not a white supremacist (or, to quote him directly, "bigoted ethno-nationalist").

He suspects that ProWhitesUnite someone he followed after he made an amusing tweet several years ago, who has since changed his username and statement of purpose. He also confirms that people shouldn't assume that he agrees with everything that Donald Trump says either.

I get the strong impression that Gary's not very active on Twitter except as a conduit for DVD Beaver stuff - certainly, there seems to be very little interaction with other accounts unless they directly engage with him upfront.

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Re: DVDBeaver

#534 Post by FrauBlucher » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:58 pm

Suggesting what a person views are by who they follow is a poor indication of what they believe or think. Afterall, Trump has close to 60Million followers. You have to know that at least a quarter of those hate the man.

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tenia
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Re: DVDBeaver

#535 Post by tenia » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:03 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:50 pm
Don't bother - I've already done it, and unsurprisingly Gary has confirmed to me that he does not endorse ProWhitesUnite in any way, shape or form, and that he is categorically not a white supremacist (or, to quote him directly, "bigoted ethno-nationalist").
I guess that's why I couldn't find this Twitter account in its followings.

He also seemed to me as not particularly using Twitter save for giving Beaver some visibility. However, his subscription list is quite some mess of video companies / movie-related people, then Ron Paul, Julien Assange, Nigel Farage, Dinesh D'Souza, quite a hefty amount of Trump WH related people, but also a surprising amount of banking/invetsment related people.

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Re: DVDBeaver

#536 Post by Dansu Dansu Dansu » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:07 pm

Doesn’t the fact that he cares enough to follow Trump’s White House mean that he’s on enough to keep up with the revolving door of his administration? And even if he might not tweet frequently, doesn’t this suggest he at least reads their tweets? I’m pretty sure I would notice racist rhetoric, by whatever name, if it appeared on my feed.

And speaking of which, is there really a discernible difference between a D’Souza fan and a racist/bigot? Or a Nigel Farage follower for that matter?

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Re: DVDBeaver

#537 Post by MichaelB » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:18 pm

All this is pointless speculation. If you want to believe that Gary is some kind of neo-Nazi, go right ahead, but he says he isn’t, and I have no reason to disbelieve him, any more than you can convincingly argue that I’m part of a violent anarchist outfit who thinks that the only good Tory is a dead Tory - because they only changed their name and revealed their true colours after luring people in with the promise of an intelligent and non-partisan debate about Britain’s current drug policies. (I remained a follower for several weeks purely because the outrage when people realised what they’d done was enormously entertaining.)

In fact, I also remember Finch of this parish sharing (in all genuine innocence) a Facebook post by virulently Islamophobic far-right group Britain First, at a time when nobody knew who they were but they were very good at coming up with eye-catching memes in order to ensnare unwitting followers.

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HJackson
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Re: DVDBeaver

#538 Post by HJackson » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:30 am

I did an advanced Twitter search on the account in question and it seems to have had the same handle since its inception. I'm willing to give Tooze the benefit of the doubt here since there doesn't seem to be a pattern of him following similar accounts (if he was really into this stuff, wouldn't his Follows be flooded with David Duke and the like?) but I think we need to accept that he was sloppy at best and not just being duped.
Dansu Dansu Dansu wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:07 pm
And speaking of which, is there really a discernible difference between a D’Souza fan and a racist/bigot? Or a Nigel Farage follower for that matter?
Yes. There's a clear difference between being a hardline conservative and being an ethnonationalist.

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Re: DVDBeaver

#539 Post by Jonathan S » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:57 am

It's just as well I've never used Twitter as I genuinely hadn't realised that a "follower" was usually defined in the sense of being a disciple. I'm usually more interested in what my enemies are up to than my friends, so I'd no doubt be following - as in "monitoring" - all sorts of individuals and groups I loathe.

I suppose this is the modern equivalent of the old (British?) tradition of judging people by the books they own, gently satirised in The Happiest Days of Your Life when headmistress Margaret Rutherford declares, "A woman's bookshelf is an infallible guide to her character." There's arguably a difference in that Twitter is public and bookshelves are usually private, though I recall at least one UK murder case where the chief suspect was found guilty in the court of public opinion after the press leaked details of his eccentric behaviour and "dodgy" volumes on his bookshelves. He was subsequently released without charge.

I'm not particularly seeking to defend Mr Tooze (though, judging from the few checks I made, his blanket enthusiasm for almost every film ever made does not seem to falter when it comes to works by African-American directors or anti-racism classics). But I do think that judging anyone by what they follow, or what they read, or what they watch, sets a dangerous precedent.

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tenia
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Re: DVDBeaver

#540 Post by tenia » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:42 am

Dansu Dansu Dansu wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:07 pm
And even if he might not tweet frequently, doesn’t this suggest he at least reads their tweets? I’m pretty sure I would notice racist rhetoric, by whatever name, if it appeared on my feed.
I myself considered following most of Trump's WH people Twitter feed simply because of the amount of BS they're writing, and I thought it'd be easier having them here on one feed than reading about them the next day in the newspaper. But I don't care that much, and barely uses Twitter, so that's that. I would however agree with HJackson that Gary's feed, especially since it's using his website's name and not his own (ie the "pro" account and not the personal one) might need a good cleanup because as such, I don't see how half of these subscriptions are anywhere related to video reviews.
Jonathan S wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:57 am
But I do think that judging anyone by what they follow, or what they read, or what they watch, sets a dangerous precedent.
That's precisely my issue here, and the fact that it took someone looking at his Twitter feed to find what appears nowhere on his website at heart would tend to support my view.

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furbicide
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Re: DVDBeaver

#541 Post by furbicide » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:45 am

tenia wrote:I would however agree with HJackson that Gary's feed, especially since it's using his website's name and not his own (ie the "pro" account and not the personal one) might need a good cleanup because as such, I don't see how half of these subscriptions are anywhere related to video reviews.
On one level, I totally agree and think that it’s extremely unwise of him to be following far-right accounts on his “professional” Twitter profile as opposed to his personal one. In theory, there should be a clear distinction between those two realms.

On the other, it’s not like anyone seems to actually respect that distinction anymore when going after people for social media activity; for instance, I doubt it would have affected any of the responses on here if it’d been Tooze’s personal account we were discussing rather than his website’s.

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tenia
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Re: DVDBeaver

#542 Post by tenia » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:48 am

You're probably right, but I agree with you that doing this with one's "pro" account probably makes things worse and is, in any case, very unwise.

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Dansu Dansu Dansu
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Re: DVDBeaver

#543 Post by Dansu Dansu Dansu » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:57 pm

HJackson wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:30 am
Dansu Dansu Dansu wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:07 pm
And speaking of which, is there really a discernible difference between a D’Souza fan and a racist/bigot? Or a Nigel Farage follower for that matter?
Yes. There's a clear difference between being a hardline conservative and being an ethnonationalist.
I completely agree, but “hardline conservative” can be a euphemism behind which certain public figures take refuge. If ProWhiteWhatever posted, “Blacks were taken care of as slaves by their knowing white owners, and now that they are free, they are helplessly dependent on welfare and crime,” one wouldn’t say, “wait a minute...that’s D’Souza, what is that doing on a white nationalist twitter feed?!” Also, despite Farage’s protests, once one removes the smokescreen surrounding what must not be admitted, isn’t he essentially an ethno-nationalist?

My point being that Gary specifically mentioned not being an ethno-nationalist, which is the unifying theme to these conservative interests, Trump included. Some may support Trump because they are conservative, have never questioned their ideology, and avoid thinking about the aspects of his administration that are uncomfortable. But Gary seems to connect the dots; there is an ideological thrust to what he follows. I don’t see it as a misunderstanding as MichaelB thoughtfully argued. It is entirely possible he is telling the truth but the joke he found funny was not too far divorced from what one would expect from someone named ProWhiteUnite, just with the comfort of not labeling it so succinctly.

For the record, I have been visiting DVD Beaver for ages, and would love to preview how The Reckless Moment and Lilith turned out. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt for selfish reasons, and also appreciate the notion of not judging one solely on who they follow on Twitter. Yet this is clearly a pattern starting on Facebook, and having been raised in a conservative environment and knowing how racism often hides in plain sight, the pattern is at least not something I can banish away as merely a mistake.

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Re: DVDBeaver

#544 Post by denti alligator » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:02 pm

HJackson wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:30 am
I did an advanced Twitter search on the account in question and it seems to have had the same handle since its inception.
So his story to MichaelB is BS? He chose to follow this account and has to now lie about it?

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domino harvey
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Re: DVDBeaver

#545 Post by domino harvey » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:05 pm

I for one am shocked to discover that Gary might not tell an unflattering truth to an acquaintance who feels close enough to drop him a line via email and who could be reasonably counted on to report back in this public forum about the response

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swo17
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Re: DVDBeaver

#546 Post by swo17 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:12 pm

I'm all primed to get out my pitchfork and all, but what's the plan here? Stop clicking links to his site? Stop buying from labels that give him screeners? Or just, like, expressing outrage in this thread?

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bearcuborg
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Re: DVDBeaver

#547 Post by bearcuborg » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:28 pm

Well, I gave a minor review contribution once, but I don’t know the guy. I’m grossed out by things I’m reading here. While this forum does a fairly good job of keeping me in the loop, so does Rosenbaum’s Global Discoveries, and then there’s Film Comment - so it’s not like I’m at a complete loss if I never clicked on his site again.

However, the site can be a nice reference point. Still, I’ve never bought things through his links, so I can take some solace in that... swo17 brings up a good question.

I used PayPal even with with the head honcho giving Trump money...The Chicago Cubs owners don’t make it easy rooting for them nowadays...

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domino harvey
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Re: DVDBeaver

#548 Post by domino harvey » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:29 pm

No change from me, I just didn't and don't like some of our members treating this like an intellectual exercise in faux-tolerance and finding ways to pretend this isn't exactly what it is. I don't financially support him via Patreon now, and do not plan to support him in that fashion in the future. His site still provides a useful service that outweighs moral outrage against his beliefs, for me at least, so I have no plans to stop visiting it. However, I think those who do give him money or support or hits should be aware of what they are supporting so they can make the decision themselves on how to proceed

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HJackson
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Re: DVDBeaver

#549 Post by HJackson » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:41 pm

denti alligator wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:02 pm
HJackson wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:30 am
I did an advanced Twitter search on the account in question and it seems to have had the same handle since its inception.
So his story to MichaelB is BS? He chose to follow this account and has to now lie about it?
I don't know if I would say he's lying. He said he suspects that he followed the account and it subsequently changed its handle, but he's trying to offer an explanation for a button he clicked on a fast-moving social media platform years ago. Surely people hit Follow on Twitter all the time on the basis of a funny post, without looking at the wider output of the account - perhaps without even looking at the handle. As I say, I think being thoughtless and sloppy is a credible (and charitable) interpretation. There are of course other credible interpretations that are less charitable which any person looking at this is more than entitled to adopt.

Although, as Dansu Dansu Dansu said, it is questionable whether this account has ever actually made a joke on Twitter than isn't dripping with the vices you would expect. An advanced Twitter search can't really answer that.

Dansu Dansu Dansu, I think this will veer off topic if we go into this too far. I don't know enough about D’Souza to contest descriptions of his politics (although there's one glaring fact that would suggest to me that he's not a typical American ethnonationalist...) but I totally reject the suggestion that Nigel Farage is an ethnonationalist - he's talked up his preference for Commonwealth migration over white European migration over the years, he was very keen to promote members of ethnic minorities to prominent roles in UKIP when he was leader while maintaining a ban on former members of the BNP and National Front, and he recently quit the party following its takeover by an Islamophobic sect.
Last edited by HJackson on Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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swo17
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Re: DVDBeaver

#550 Post by swo17 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:46 pm

Well also if all anyone is going to do is not donate to his Patreon, I don't know that that thorough of an investigation is warranted

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