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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:11 am 
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exidor wrote:
If they sold them at RRP now, they'd just get snapped up by scalpers and sold on at 500% profit within the hour. Why is it "vastly immoral" for Arrow to get that 500% instead?


Very simple : I don't expect any label to be as greedy as this, even in such a capitalistic world, as to sell products at 500% of their original value.

They didn't do that in the past, and basically no other label is doing so, so I'm wondering who at Arrow thought this should be a good thing to start doing. The past times, Arrow put these extra copies on their webstore at a regular price (Stray Cat Rock, Nekromantik 2). Why not doing so anymore ? Are they that money-craving now ?
Mondo Macabro put some OOP copies on their webstore a few weeks ago, they just sold them at a slightly increased price (like $30 instead of $20) but at least it was a flat price.

So they're of course free to take advantage of their own fanbase. If there are people willing to shell out that crazy amount of money, why not. But scalpers are as a whole despised a-holes taking advantage of this market and perceived as the plague of the limited edition system, so I don't see why a label doing the exact same thing wouldn't be frowned upon too. In doing so, they're also keeping enabled these bottom-feeders instead of trying to short-circuit them.

So again, I'm wondering what is Arrow exact take on the pros and cons of doing so, and what the incentive was that managed to overcome the very bad perception the label will get from their own consumers.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:25 am 
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tenia wrote:
So again, I'm wondering what is Arrow exact take on the pros and cons of doing so, and what the incentive was that managed to overcome the very bad perception the label will get from their own consumers.


Some of their own consumers, was kind of the point I was trying to make. Some don't see it as greedy to list a bunch of leftovers at 99p a pop and see what happens.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:36 am 
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Scalpers generally don't control the means of production for whatever they're jacking prices up on. There is something unseemly about Arrow selling these at inflated prices to their own audience of desperate buyers. Sure, they're "allowed" to do so, but doesn't make it okay


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:12 am 
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exidor wrote:
I don't have a problem with it at all. They're selling these super rare OOP items at a price determined by the market. That's like a cornerstone of capitalism.

There was a window when you could buy them at RRP. Now you can't. If they sold them at RRP now, they'd just get snapped up by scalpers and sold on at 500% profit within the hour. Why is it "vastly immoral" for Arrow to get that 500% instead?

What this guy said. Better the money goes to the publisher/producer than a third party, no?

Some seem to assume that scalping Blu-rays is piss-easy money with a quick turnaround. It’s actually surprising much of time what never gains much value and what shoots through the roof. It still beats putting the money in a savings account though.

The whole limted edition system is dependent upon scalpers to an extent. People buying extra copies as an investment means the print run is more likely to sell out and reduces the risk on the publisher. This urge to buy means people are inclined to buy the releases at a higher price point and sooner in fear of missing out. If the releases were only sold at RRP and could only be resold at RRP, they would mostly never sell out.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:40 pm 
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exidor wrote:
Some don't see it as greedy to list a bunch of leftovers at 99p a pop and see how much over the RRP they will sell.

I fixed your sentence for you.
If the "general audience" knows for how high these can be re-sold, Arrow amonst all people should know too.

domino harvey wrote:
Scalpers generally don't control the means of production for whatever they're jacking prices up on.

I get regular people trying to take advantage of this and make some extra money out of it, but the label itself ? Yes, that seems surprisingly desperately greedy.

I posted my questions to Arrow on FB and Twitter, I'll see if they answer anything.

TMDaines wrote:
The whole limted edition system is dependent upon scalpers to an extent. This urge to buy means people are inclined to buy the releases at a higher price point and sooner in fear of missing out.


It's not a "you had a window for buying" anymore when the print run is, say, 5000 copies but actually, scalpers already took away (probably) 5 to 10% out of it, thus making it artificially rarer than it is.
So when a LE sells out, how many interested people are actually able to get one ? It's thus not only a question of "urging people to buy quickly", it's a question over whether even if we can, can we really ?

And now, the label is selling at 500% their own freaking products ? That's going to send a message which pretty much says "Please, even we do it so you're free to grieve our print run by some copies just for ripping off people".
It's the cornerstone of capitalism, sure, but it still doesn't mean it's right.

TMDaines wrote:
People buying extra copies as an investment means the print run is more likely to sell out and reduces the risk on the publisher.


I should buy 1000 copies of Carrie and see if the overall result pleases people. "Oh but, they had a month already to pre-order it !"


Last edited by tenia on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm 
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I think for me, the concern here is that if the label can make a huge amount of money on out of print items, it encourages them to create artificial scarcity- like, I kind of hate Twilight Time for pulling that kind of thing, and they weren't scalping, just charging a high RRP. Ideally, it would make more sense for them to print as many as they thing people are going to want to buy.

I doubt the people at Arrow are actually rubbing their hands together and saying ah yes, we will say we're making 1500 but actually print double that- the rest for ebay! But I think it's fair to say that it's unseemly for them to profit so directly off of something that one would hope they'd want to avoid, which is to say, product scarcity.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:57 am 
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Looks like Arrow is having a webstore sale currently, going on until Monday 20th at midday, with lots and lots of reduced price (even Don't Torture a Duckling is down to £12).
And of course, as always : double points.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:19 am 
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Anyone had problems recently ordering Divorce Iranian style through Arrow? Paypal refused my order once (and my whole order didn't go through subsequently) on grounds of that title for whatever obscure reason. Don't want to risk my whole order again by including it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:27 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:02 pm
kuzine wrote:
Anyone had problems recently ordering Divorce Iranian style through Arrow? Paypal refused my order once (and my whole order didn't go through subsequently) on grounds of that title for whatever obscure reason. Don't want to risk my whole order again by including it.


I was unable to do so a few sales ago, PayPal advised the title gets flagged for security reasons. An Arrow representative advised they would alter the title in the payment system.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:36 am 
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Goodbye, $189. Hello, 14 Arrow titles.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:24 am 
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The Hired Hand disappeared from my wish list and cart after I moved it and before I could order it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:48 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:02 pm
What A Disgrace wrote:
The Hired Hand disappeared from my wish list and cart after I moved it and before I could order it.


Same with me for The Sorrow and the Pity.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:55 am 
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Same here for the Electra, My Love blu.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:59 am 
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There were 361 titles in the offer, now only 345. I guess some first pressing are going out through the sale.
EDIT : for me, it seems it's Don't Torture A Duckling which is now gone. Might quickly order Dead End Drive In...
EDIT 2 : nope, it's weird but Don't Torture actually still is here.


Last edited by tenia on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:03 am 
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Location: OOP is the only answer
Nikkatsu Vol.2 and Matinee were definitely gone from my cart, plus the two Veronica Lake films are conspicuously absent from the sale!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:07 am 
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Are they out of print forever, or does it mean they’re just sold out for now?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:14 am 
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Considering it's a warehouse moving sale and something like Electra, My Love is a recent release, I'd say just sold out for now.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:16 am 
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The Lake films have been conspicuously absent from every sale.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:33 am 
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My first order was 'flagged' by paypal, but showed an item had disappeared as I placed it. But then two subsequent orders with in-stock items could not be processed and, having called paypal, they said since the first was flagged and the next attempts were made before that one cleared I won't be able to purchase from them for up to 72 hours until the various flagged orders (which will not go through) are removed. Anyone ever deal with this?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:51 am 
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Location: Cambridge, UK
perkizitore wrote:
Nikkatsu Vol.2 and Matinee were definitely gone from my cart, plus the two Veronica Lake films are conspicuously absent from the sale!

bearcuborg wrote:
Are they out of print forever, or does it mean they’re just sold out for now?

swo17 wrote:
The Lake films have been conspicuously absent from every sale.


A comment on Arrow Video's social media announcement of the sale suggests they were initially available in this sale, but that they disappeared very quickly.

Arrow has responded 'There were only limited numbers of these 2 films unfortunately; they will be back when the new site launches'.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:02 pm 
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perkizitore wrote:
Nikkatsu Vol.2 and Matinee were definitely gone from my cart, plus the two Veronica Lake films are conspicuously absent from the sale!

I think The Glass Key was included early in the sale, so I guess it’s another one whose pressing is now gone.

bearcuborg wrote:
Are they out of print forever, or does it mean they’re just sold out for now?

Probably a mix of both depending on how long they took to sell out.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Nikkatsu 2 is probably OOP, though the US release will probably stick around for a while yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:37 pm 
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I saw Matinee earlier too but I balked because Shout Factory! is putting out their own edition, and I'm hoping for a new transfer/scan (as well as the original 5.1 mix - all BD releases so far have been 2.0 only).

FWIW, Arrow's BD seems to use the same exact master that was used for Carlotta's BD and Koch's BD - the Carlotta is a bit warmer than the other two, and Arrow's bitrate is slightly lower than the others, but otherwise they're all in the same ballpark. Arrow's selling point is the extras, but the best, most substantial one is also on the Carlotta disc.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Seems like another disappointing offering. Arrow sales used to be something to look forward to.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Location: SLC, UT
The Second Run part of the offer was pretty exciting.


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