The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

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Professor Wagstaff
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Re: The Films of 2013

#1 Post by Professor Wagstaff » Sun May 05, 2013 9:52 pm

I had a chance to see The Spectacular Now earlier this evening and, despite some overly-familiar elements, the movie had more of an emotional kick to it than I expected. Credit for that needs to go to stars Miles Teller and Shailene Woodley who have some of the best chemistry I've seen in a teen drama in quite awhile. I've only seen these actors in one other film each (Teller in Rabbit Hole, Woodley in The Descendants), and like in those films, they have natural screen presence. At the film's best, director James Ponsoldt lets the camera roll in long, uninterrupted shots of a sexual encounter or a high school prom that feel very vulnerable and candidly photographed. I'm not surprised they shared a Special Jury Prize at Sundance this year. Here's hoping someone uses them again for a Before Sunrise style drama.

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Jeff
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The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#2 Post by Jeff » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:21 pm

I found it a disarmingly honest and sincere high school movie with several fantastic performances. It evokes John Hughes and Cameron Crowe at their earnest best, features characters I actually cared about, and generally avoids the obnoxious trappings that plague most modern movies about teenagers. There's a completely unnecessary framing device that should have been excised, but other than that, it's a tightly constructed little coming-of-age drama.

criterion10

Re: The Films of 2013

#3 Post by criterion10 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:28 pm

The Spectacular Now is an ambitious little movie that tries to paint a more realistic picture of high school than the many similar movies that have come before it. Unfortunately though, it doesn't succeed entirely at this and also suffers from major issues in its final act.

There are some definite assets that the films has (great performances from Miles Teller and Shailene Woodley, a unique score, solid direction from James Ponsoldt), although for me personally, besides this issue in the final act that I previously mentioned, it still suffers from some cliches and development issues that don't feel like the true essence of high school.

I still enjoyed it though. It's a solid watch, and certainly one of the better high school movies as of lately (miles ahead of last year's vastly overrated Perks of Being a Wallflower).

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Roger Ryan
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Re: The Films of 2013

#4 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:28 am

Maybe it was overrated, but PERKS OF BEING A WALLFLOWER was a lot more interesting.THE SPECTACULAR NOW seems satisfied to reheat SAY ANYTHING with a little John Hughes added along with an extra dose of gravitas. The performances are good which help to sell this wholly unoriginal effort (although I think Kyle Chandler plays it too broad in a key role). I disliked being told that Shailene Woodley's character is the homely geeky girl who can't get a date when she is adorable from the first moment she appears on-screen. This is not a problem with casting Woodley in the part; it's the laziness of the screenwriting to rely on "ugly duckling" cliches in lieu of something more original.

As Jeff alluded to above, the framing device is unneeded and I would have been much happier without any first person narration. The film comes alive in smaller moments that pass without announcing the meaning of it all; Sutter's conversation with the football star and his interaction with Aimee in the woods among them.

One thing that almost derails the drama near the end...
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...is the absurd chronology that has Sutter visiting his father, Aimee being hit by a car and hospitalized, the graduation ceremony and Aimee leaving for Philadelphia to attend college all in the space of one week! A one-line rewrite could have solved this issue.
Last edited by Roger Ryan on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

criterion10

Re: The Films of 2013

#5 Post by criterion10 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:42 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:I disliked being told that Shailene Woodley's character is the homely geeky girl who can't get a date when she is adorable from the first moment she appears on-screen. This is not a problem with casting Woodley in the part; it's the laziness of the screenwriting to rely on "ugly ducking" cliches in lieu of something more original.
It's cliches like this that I was referring to in my previous post that didn't allow me to fully appreciate the film, even in spite of the messy final act.

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Black Hat
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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#6 Post by Black Hat » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:13 pm

Full disclosure, I'm a sucker for these kinds of films but I completely ate this up. Yes there were problems like Aimee being adorably gorgeous and
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specifically her getting hit by car along with everything else that happened in a span of what, 2 days?
but every choice the characters made resonated to me as true. Admirable since there were many opportunities for Ponsoldt to make the same tired, cheesy choices we've seen in numerous other films. I'd go as far as to say that with Teller & Woodley's chemistry being so strong a strong case can be made for Sutter & Aimee to be the new Jesse & Celine.

All in all I'm very happy to say The Spectacular Now is a super sweet high school movie continuing the fine Hollywood tradition of creating completely unrealistic expectations about relationships for a brand new generation.

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sorrysomehow
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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#7 Post by sorrysomehow » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:30 pm

I just saw this film last night and I really enjoyed it. The acting was surprisingly good, I loved the cinematography, and I thought they did a pretty decent job avoiding most of the cliches I was expecting to find in the film. As already stated, the framing device was entirely unnecessary and felt really hokey the entire time, especially the last time it's mentioned towards the end. I had a bit of a problem with the way that Aimee was written though.
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Sutter is a complete ass to her the entire film and she never tears into him about it. He is basically using her to convince himself he doesn't still have feelings for Cassidy, but you can tell that Aimee is fully aware of this every time he makes eye contact with Cassidy. He blows her off for several days after the first time they kiss, then he presumably takes her virginity, he screams at her after she tells him that she loves him, basically causes her to get hit by a car, and entirely stands her up when they were supposed to leave together on that bus. After all of that shit that he put her through and I feel like her character just takes it and never gets to tell him off the way that he deserves. I just feel like her character was starting to be developed really well but she never really got her defining moment. The closest we get is when we hear her talk about how she stood up to her mother, but we don't even get to see it. I almost just feel like her character is TOO nice for Sutter and I just really wanted a moment when she just loses her shit and goes off on him. In my mind, when he shows up at her school at the end she just tells him to fuck off.


Also just feel like mentioning that the sex scene in this film is probably one of the more tasteful ones that I've seen. I found it very intimate and sincere, and I appluad the director for the way he presented it.

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Brian C
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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#8 Post by Brian C » Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:15 pm

I had problems along the lines of what sorrysomehow writes about.
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It's hard for me to believe that Sutter cares a whole lot about Aimee, because her main virtue in his eyes seems to be that she obviously looks up to him a lot and he can use this blind adoration to sate his nagging feeling that he's a worthless asshole. This is an extremely one-sided relationship, with Aimee being little more than a willing enabler of Sutter's most self-destructive tendencies, but for awhile the filmmakers seem to have some recognition of this, and the whole movie heads toward that emotional showdown in the car. "Do you not see that I'm bad for you?" he asks, and it's a really good question, and the movie arrives at a real moment of honesty ... and then it throws Aimee in front of a car instead of dealing with it.

I found this pretty unforgivable, a shamelessly cheap melodramatic moment that changes the whole dynamic of the movie. Instead of an honest look at a potentially destructive relationship, it becomes a bunch of shit about Sutter's very generic and superficial soul-searching. We're told by his mom that Sutter is totally different than his dad because Sutter did some nice things for people those times, as if his father wouldn't have had his good moments too. He resolves his failed relationship with Cassidy, without any insight from the filmmakers, who don't seem to recognize that she probably was a lot better for Sutter than Aimee ever will be, except that Sutter's too self-absorbed to see that she really cares for him and would probably be willing to go to great lengths to help him out if he ever showed the faintest interest in getting some help or even acknowledging that he needs it. And then the movie ends with a really stupid fake cliffhanger when Sutter shows up in Philly and doesn't even give Aimee the dignity of having her say.

I guess what really bugs me is that there's little indication that Ponsoldt cares at all about Aimee. Woodley is really a wonderful young actor but the movie's treatment of Aimee is really kind of ugly. As sorrysomehow notes, she's denied key scenes in the film that are essential to her character's arc. She's initially shown to be reluctant to drink but soon appears to be keeping up with Sutter - how does this affect her when Sutter's not around? She's available for Sutter all the time, with 100% full devotion at all times, with no other aspects of her life for him or us to have to contend with (and just to emphasize this, the film treats her friend, who is wise to Sutter's act, with contempt for no reason except that she apparently isn't in thrall to our hero). All he offers her are some easy answers about standing up to mom, that again, we don't even get to see. That and, of course, the privilege of hanging around with the greatness that is himself.

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Shrew
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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#9 Post by Shrew » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:28 am

I saw this with my girlfriend, and while I enjoyed it a fair amount, my girlfriend was much more torn over the issues Brian C. brought up. Namely, Woodley's Aimee and her motivations are underdeveloped and the women in general are perceived, though sympathetically, as objects. This is another movie with a great female performance and character that nonetheless still fails the Bechdel test. (The two girls, Aimee and Cassidy, share a few scenes, but I don't think they actually speak to one another beyond a "Is it okay if I dance with him?" Even Aimee's friend never talks to her about anything other than her disapproval of Sutter.)

Having not read the book, I assume it was written in first person, since the movie is very much from Sutter's point of view (down to the framing device, which I didn't mind in the beginning, but hated in the end). It's an example where something like the Bechdel test isn't the most useful critique (beyond pointing out the general lack of female representation in movies), since the film is ultimately about the male character. Films and stories can be lauded for tight focus and control, but I couldn't help but feel that this would've been much better had it expanded to compare Aimee's point of view with Sutter. I think Woodley saves the role by bringing a lot of nuance and suggesting motivations that aren't written out in the script, but this is very nearly a Nerdy Pixie Dream Girl. And in the end she ends up the being the reflective object to Sutter's subject.
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That said, I think Brian goes a bit far in criticizing Sutter and his relationship. The guy's a dope, but I think the film does back up his mother's claims--the guy honestly enjoys helping the people around him and making them happy, but doesn't have any sense of happiness beyond the moment. While his relationship with Aimee is in part because she's an easy, loving rebound, he approaches her because he thinks he can make her happy at the same time. Where Woodley's performance really comes through is quietly suggesting just how much Aimee wants a boyfriend, to be noticed, break out of her shell, lose her virginity, and in general experience more life, all of which Sutter brings her. And though she is a bit too pretty for the "makeover" trope to really work, I think she does a great job of conveying the shyness and timidity that prevents Aimee from doing all that herself, and in turn keeps her stuck on Sutter even after his bad influences begin to outweigh the good.

The ending is still awful though, and I agree with Brian here, because it denies Aimee any chance to respond to Sutter and thus illustrate any growth. It would have been great had Aimee declined to renew their relationship, or at least called him out on his shoddy behavior toward her. Again, I think Woodley does a great job of conveying the change in her character under Sutter (like her gradual drinking problem) behind the scenes of Sutter's story, but the film desperately needed to puncture that narrative Sutter constructed, and let Aimee vent some kind of frustration outside of crying as she gets on a bus.

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Black Hat
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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#10 Post by Black Hat » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:04 am

One of the aspects of the film that left an impression on me was its terrific score. Was so nice to see a film in this genre without the same tired indie, 80s style tunes.

I think the criticisms of the film are very fair
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no question the film went off the rails for a bit when Aimee was hit by the car but I would argue that wanting things to be from her point of view would make for an entirely different movie. She's a person who has prepared herself and thought about her future that would render the 'Spectacular Now' concept and themes completely moot. That said the question 'don't you get it that I'm bad for you' should of been answered. What was worse than her being hit by the car was that she still wants him back without ever really addressing the whole 'how you almost killed me thing'. I don't know maybe we're a cynical lot but I don't know anybody who offers the kind of unconditional love Aimee gave Sutter. Then again maybe creating a character who loves unconditionally was the point.

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Brian C
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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#11 Post by Brian C » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:03 am

I wouldn't necessarily say that the film should have been from Aimee's point of view. but certainly it would have been possible to giving her point of view some weight alongside Sutter's. It's not an 'either/or' proposition but a 'both/and'. Doing so wouldn't have made the existing themes moot by any means, but given the filmmakers an opportunity to explore them with more honesty and generosity of spirit.

After all, as is, Sutter's "living in the now" outlook serves merely as a way for him to rationalize away his self-destructive behavior. As themes go, there's not much there.

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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#12 Post by sorrysomehow » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:46 am

Brian C wrote:I wouldn't necessarily say that the film should have been from Aimee's point of view. but certainly it would have been possible to giving her point of view some weight alongside Sutter's. It's not an 'either/or' proposition but a 'both/and'. Doing so wouldn't have made the existing themes moot by any means, but given the filmmakers an opportunity to explore them with more honesty and generosity of spirit.

After all, as is, Sutter's "living in the now" outlook serves merely as a way for him to rationalize away his self-destructive behavior. As themes go, there's not much there.

I saw the film again last weekend, and aside from the crush I'm slowly developing for Ms. Woodley, I had a few realizations while watching this film for a second time:
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I agree with Brian entirely. It would not have been at all difficult to flesh out Aimee's character at all with the addition of literally one or two more personal scenes with her, and it certainly could have been done without comprising the themes of the film at all. Granted, I'm no writer so I'm not even going to attempt to speculate on what exactly they could have added, but it certainly could have been accomplished if they had wanted to. I almost wonder if they filmed some scenes like this that got axed, because it just feels like such a big character arc to miss entirely.

A second viewing left me really noticing how flat her character is, and I honestly feel like she's only brought to life by Shailene Woodley's acting. I know someone mentioned earlier that she brought a lot of the character's nuances to life and I definitely agree with that. I think she honestly probably saves the film because of the way she plays a character that could have so very easily just become as caricaturized as Aimee is written.
I just want to reiterate that though it sounds like I hated this film, I really did enjoy it and I'm sure I'll find myself watching it again once it's released on dvd, aha.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#13 Post by domino harvey » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:04 am

Found this to be a surprisingly refreshing portrait of a young man who isn't super-sensitive, suicidal, or impossibly dreamy-- a rarity among American film portraits of young men lately. He's a smart-ass, lazy, somewhat spoiled kid who is able to coast through most situations on charm alone and has such deeply buried self esteem issues that he nearly wrecks his own life even quicker than his father ruined his own. I don't know if Miles Teller is able to translate his performance here to other roles, but he is marvelous in what must have been an impossibly hard role to cast. I agree that the film doesn't explore Shailene Woodley's character with much depth, but this seemed to be a reflection of our protagonist, who appears to only tentatively embrace her as his girlfriend for the entirety of the film. I think this approach is a lot truer to life of many high school romances than the melodramatic obsessive l'amour we sometimes see in teenage flicks. When Woodley talks about Teller moving with her after high school, their entire conversation is brilliantly played and written to show just how uninvolved really both partners are in this process. I'll echo the earlier praise for the "first time" scene, which plays out in one take and is as expertly observed as any of the other high points from the film.

I also feel the need to defend Kyle Chandler's perf from the accusation above that he was too broad. I thought this was another part doomed to hit predictable notes, but Chandler shows how this man could have at one time charmed anyone, can still charm when he needs to with empty efficacy, but is painfully self-involved and self-medicating to the point of inadvertent assholery. That tossed-off uncaring is as damaging as any other form of emotional or physical abuse, and that whole sequence, for me at least, was far more disheartening than if Chandler had just sounded the expected chords.

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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#14 Post by dustybooks » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:17 pm

domino harvey wrote:I also feel the need to defend Kyle Chandler's perf from the accusation above that he was too broad. I thought this was another part doomed to hit predictable notes, but Chandler shows how this man could have at one time charmed anyone, can still charm when he needs to with empty efficacy, but is painfully self-involved and self-medicating to the point of inadvertent assholery. That tossed-off uncaring is as damaging as any other form of emotional or physical abuse, and that whole sequence, for me at least, was far more disheartening than if Chandler had just sounded the expected chords.
In a film with a lot of things that rang painfully true, Chandler's performance was the hardest for me to watch. He was a dead ringer for someone from my own life and everything about that character's behavior and the way Chandler embodied him was terribly well-observed. I'm eager to see this again.

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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#15 Post by Numero Trois » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:51 am

Shrew wrote:
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It would have been great had Aimee declined to renew their relationship, or at least called him out on his shoddy behavior toward her.
In the DVD commentary Ponsoldt gets into most of the issues discussed here so far. He does acknowledge that their relationship is toxic and goes on to imagine that Aimee
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would eventually come to terms with this, like maybe ten years later.
Brian C wrote:
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and the movie arrives at a real moment of honesty ... and then it throws Aimee in front of a car instead of dealing with it.

I found this pretty unforgivable, a shamelessly cheap melodramatic moment that changes the whole dynamic of the movie.
Oddly enough, Ponsoldt also states that reading that sequence in the novel actually made him
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want to make the movie. To him, a safer movie would've left that out and a manipulative one would've killed her off.

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Re: The Spectacular Now (James Ponsoldt, 2013)

#16 Post by barryconvex » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:27 am

Shrew wrote:
[Obscure] Spoiler:
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It would have been great had Aimee declined to renew their relationship, or at least called him out on his shoddy behavior toward her.
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the look she gave sutter when he showed up on her campus spoke volumes about how she was feeling about him and about how far her character has come since first meeting him
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I guess what really bugs me is that there's little indication that Ponsoldt cares at all about Aimee. Woodley is really a wonderful young actor but the movie's treatment of Aimee is really kind of ugly. As sorrysomehow notes, she's denied key scenes in the film that are essential to her character's arc. She's initially shown to be reluctant to drink but soon appears to be keeping up with Sutter - how does this affect her when Sutter's not around? She's available for Sutter all the time, with 100% full devotion at all times, with no other aspects of her life for him or us to have to contend with (and just to emphasize this, the film treats her friend, who is wise to Sutter's act, with contempt for no reason except that she apparently isn't in thrall to our hero). All he offers her are some easy answers about standing up to mom, that again, we don't even get to see. That and, of course, the privilege of hanging around with the greatness that is himself.
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this is what was so charming about aimee-she really loved this guy to the point of blindness. yeah, he's kind of an asshole to her (he's kind of an asshole in general. another thing that made him such a refreshing character) but maybe since her own dad died of a drug overdose she had a sympathetic spot for an obvious addict like him. maybe that's something she'll have to deal with herself in the future? or maybe she'll always be drawn to troubled types in spite of herself? Sutter's torn with his feelings toward the two girls. the movie does a great job of conveying his confusion with being in love with a great sexual partner and being in love with someone who can really love him for who he is. he's 17 and hasn't realized which is healthier yet because he's still so in love with "the moment". the great challenge of his life will be separating feelings of love from his feelings of addiction because as he is now, there's really not much difference.
Roger Ryan wrote:
I disliked being told that Shailene Woodley's character is the homely geeky girl who can't get a date when she is adorable from the first moment she appears on-screen. This is not a problem with casting Woodley in the part; it's the laziness of the screenwriting to rely on "ugly ducking" cliches in lieu of something more original.
i thought the movie went out of its way to avoid every cliche at painting aimee as unattractive. it used none of the standard coke bottle glasses or braces or ugly clothes to dress down an otherwise attractive person. there were no makeup tricks-they just presented her as a bookish girl without many friends from start to finish. in high school popularity is everything...i really, really loved these characters and the movie to a slightly lesser degree-i agree that the car crash scene was a real misstep as was the "letter to the dean" framing device-and i haven't even mentioned how nice it was to see jennifer jason leigh on screen again...

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