The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

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Shrew
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#51 Post by Shrew » Wed May 15, 2019 10:31 am

A hipster, deadpan war movie focused in the small delights of life does sound very interesting indeed
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Lost Highway
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#52 Post by Lost Highway » Wed May 15, 2019 12:40 pm

tenia wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:14 am
I keep wondering why zombie movies HAVE to come with social or political subtexts or high concepts when it fail so often to live up to it. Why can't they simply be mindless horrific and/or funny entertainment ?
Most zombie movies don’t have an overt social or political subtext. My favourite zombie movie of the last few years, Train to Busan, is just an exciting genre exercise. Most of the zombie movies I mentioned earlier in the thread, aren’t terribly political.
Last edited by Lost Highway on Wed May 15, 2019 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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tenia
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#53 Post by tenia » Wed May 15, 2019 1:14 pm

I should have phrased it differently and got lost in translation : I wonder why some are still trying to make zombie movies with subtexts while the utmost majority fail to live up.
I did like Busan, though it felt a bit overlong.

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Lost Highway
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#54 Post by Lost Highway » Wed May 15, 2019 1:19 pm

tenia wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:14 pm
I should have phrased it differently and got lost in translation : I wonder why some are still trying to make zombie movies with subtexts while the utmost majority fail to live up.
I did like Busan, though it felt a bit overlong.
From the trailer and reviews it looks like Jarmush has made the type of zombie movie a non-genre auteur not that well versed in the genre and possibly feeling above it would make. Jarmush made an overfamiliar looking zombie comedy, thinking because Romero’s zombie movies reflected something about the politics of their era, he had to make a trite satire on Trump’s America. Because of the way Romero’s influential films have been interpreted, its become a bit of a cliche to think that all zombie movies have a strong political subtext.

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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#55 Post by kubelkind » Wed May 15, 2019 1:36 pm

Wonder if the "zombie-movies-with political-subtexts" genre starts not with Romero but with Jacques Tourneur's 1943 "I Walked With A Zombie", which can be easily read as a critique of colonialism. Looks like Bertrand Bonello's forthcoming "Zombi Child" may be more along those lines.

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Lost Highway
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#56 Post by Lost Highway » Wed May 15, 2019 1:56 pm

kubelkind wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:36 pm
Wonder if the "zombie-movies-with political-subtexts" genre starts not with Romero but with Jacques Tourneur's 1943 "I Walked With A Zombie", which can be easily read as a critique of colonialism. Looks like Bertrand Bonello's forthcoming "Zombi Child" may be more along those lines.
Beautiful as the film is, it wasn’t nearly as influential on the genre as the Romero films were (the Val Lewton approach in general was). The Romero zombie as a brain dead, man eating ghoul in whose wake comes the apocalypse is a distinctly different monster from the far more benign zombies of Haitian folklore which populated the screen before.

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BenoitRouilly
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#57 Post by BenoitRouilly » Wed May 15, 2019 3:12 pm

swo17 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:20 pm
domino harvey wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:09 pm
an asshole farmer (Steve Buscemi sporting a “Make America White Again” hat
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This description from the other review makes that sound a little better:
At the diner, Steve Buscemi shows up as a farmer in a cap that reads “Keep America White Again,” and the fact that he’s buddies with the guy seated next to him at the counter, played by Danny Glover, is one of Jarmusch’s feel-good corkscrew liberal jokes.
The scene continues, Buscemi when offered more coffee says "it's too black for me."
silence. He looks over at Glover and says "I meant this coffee is too strong for me", and leaves.
Glover says "take care Frank [Buscemi]"

I'm not a fan of the zombie genre. But this one is definitely an ironic zombie movie, full of references and attention drawn to its making...
I didn't understand why a reporter asked at the press conference whether Bill Murray read all the script. It is in fact a joke pulled from the film itself.

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Finch
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#58 Post by Finch » Wed May 15, 2019 6:15 pm

AA Dowd of the AV Club gives it a C.

For someone of Jarmusch's calibre, this is a dud. Fingers crossed he rebounds with the next one.

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solaris72
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#59 Post by solaris72 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:32 am

kubelkind wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:36 pm
Wonder if the "zombie-movies-with political-subtexts" genre starts not with Romero but with Jacques Tourneur's 1943 "I Walked With A Zombie", which can be easily read as a critique of colonialism. Looks like Bertrand Bonello's forthcoming "Zombi Child" may be more along those lines.
Tourneur's definitely qualifies, as does The Last Man on Earth if it counts (in any event, Romero cited it as an inspiration). One could even go as far back as Gance's J'Accuse (though the rising of the dead happens in a vision there).
Lost Highway wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:56 pm
Beautiful as the film is, it wasn’t nearly as influential on the genre as the Romero films were (the Val Lewton approach in general was). The Romero zombie as a brain dead, man eating ghoul in whose wake comes the apocalypse is a distinctly different monster from the far more benign zombies of Haitian folklore which populated the screen before.
True, if we're strictly tracking influence, nothing beats Romero's.

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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#60 Post by kubelkind » Thu May 16, 2019 1:05 pm

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking of influence or popularity, just the genesis of the idea of the zombie picture as a political allegory. Its been many years since I saw Night Of The Living Dead (which is something I need to rectify soon 'cos its great) but would I be correct in remembering that the word "zombie" is never mentioned in it?

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knives
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#61 Post by knives » Thu May 16, 2019 1:06 pm

Correct. For Romero I believe it was only ever mentioned in Dawn.

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Murdoch
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#62 Post by Murdoch » Fri May 17, 2019 9:24 pm

Shrew wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:31 am
A hipster, deadpan war movie focused in the small delights of life does sound very interesting indeed
Image
Not to go off-topic but I really miss Hark! A Vagrant


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Finch
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#64 Post by Finch » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:56 pm

a half star out of four from Walter Chaw
Maybe the problem with The Dead Don't Die is that it's the first Jim Jarmusch film to feel elderly and shouty. It's the aging hippie ranting about how disengaged this new generation is, using modern examples in bad faith and tedious as a consequence almost immediately. It's the patronizing old guy who doesn't realize that everything he's saying was already said more eloquently by the very things he's attacking in his arch, superior way--the dude telling the woman about this book he's read and ignoring her constant protestations that she's the author of said book. Oh man, is it bad.

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Monterey Jack
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#65 Post by Monterey Jack » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:09 pm

knives wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:06 pm
Correct. For Romero I believe it was only ever mentioned in Dawn.
Dennis Hopper has the line, "Zombies, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, they creep me out." in Land Of The Dead.

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mfunk9786
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#66 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:31 pm

Finch wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:56 pm
a half star out of four from Walter Chaw
Maybe the problem with The Dead Don't Die is that it's the first Jim Jarmusch film to feel elderly and shouty. It's the aging hippie ranting about how disengaged this new generation is, using modern examples in bad faith and tedious as a consequence almost immediately. It's the patronizing old guy who doesn't realize that everything he's saying was already said more eloquently by the very things he's attacking in his arch, superior way--the dude telling the woman about this book he's read and ignoring her constant protestations that she's the author of said book. Oh man, is it bad.
Jarmusch wouldn't be the first boomer liberal with his brain broken by the news cycle since 2016, but it's very disappointing to hear that someone who made a film as gentle and human as Paterson followed it up with something like this. Especially when filmmakers like Spike Lee and Paul Schrader (among others) were stirred to do some of their best work.

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Murdoch
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#67 Post by Murdoch » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:35 pm

This is not a good movie and by far the worst I've seen from Jarmusch. The script is embarrassingly lazy, relying on some tired running gags and at times the film does little more than show off its cast (e.g. the camera lingering twice on zombie Iggy Pop for no other reason than to say "Look, it's Iggy Pop!"). There are a few meta jokes about the film's script that feel pulled straight from a Mel Brooks movie and there's a lazy Trump reference thrown in for good measure. There's nothing particularly insightful or creative here, just a by-the-numbers zombie movie with a bloated cast and some bad jokes.

That said, I found myself enjoying it about halfway through once my expectations had sufficiently plunged. Then Jarmusch commenced his finger wagging at the end and my interest again dropped to zero.

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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#68 Post by RIP Film » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:15 am

Haven’t seen it, but based on reactions i’m beginning to wonder how meta this movie is. As if the all-star cast and dopey script/pacing, waiting for the laugh moments, is some sort of commentary on the state of entertainment... Watching celebrities screw around while the world burns. At the very least it sounds interesting even as a detour for Jarmusch, who i’m willing to give the benefit of a doubt until I see it for myself.

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Lost Highway
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#69 Post by Lost Highway » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:27 am

RIP Film wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:15 am
Haven’t seen it, but based on reactions i’m beginning to wonder how meta this movie is. As if the all-star cast and dopey script/pacing, waiting for the laugh moments, is some sort of commentary on the state of entertainment... Watching celebrities screw around while the world burns. At the very least it sounds interesting even as a detour for Jarmusch, who i’m willing to give the benefit of a doubt until I see it for myself.
The criticisms of the film may not be valid because it’s flaws are on purpose due to some assumed meta aspect and everybody has been too dumb to understand that. Did I get that right ?

RIP Film
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#70 Post by RIP Film » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:29 am

Lost Highway wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:27 am
RIP Film wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:15 am
Haven’t seen it, but based on reactions i’m beginning to wonder how meta this movie is. As if the all-star cast and dopey script/pacing, waiting for the laugh moments, is some sort of commentary on the state of entertainment... Watching celebrities screw around while the world burns. At the very least it sounds interesting even as a detour for Jarmusch, who i’m willing to give the benefit of a doubt until I see it for myself.
The criticisms of the film may not be valid because it’s flaws are on purpose due to some assumed meta aspect and everybody has been too dumb to understand that. Did I get that right ?
I’ll let you know when I see it this weekend. Jarmusch doesn’t make bad movies in my experience, and I put no stock in modern film criticism whatsoever.

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Lost Highway
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#71 Post by Lost Highway » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:42 am

Considering I thought Broken Flowers was one of the worst films I saw that year, we are not going to see eye to eye on that one.

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Murdoch
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#72 Post by Murdoch » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:07 am

I liked Broken Flowers well enough. I can't think of a Jarmusch movie besides this that I actively disliked actually. I would be interested in reading a defense of The Dead Don't Die since I think some aspects of it, like Driver's unwaiverable pessimism in the face of the apocalypse, were interesting. And I will say that audience I saw it with thought it was hysterical.

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DarkImbecile
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Re: The Dead Don't Die (Jim Jarmusch, 2019)

#73 Post by DarkImbecile » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:35 am

Matt Zoller Seitz' review on RogerEbert.com seems to counter many of the common negative criticisms. I'll be curious to see it with my expectations substantially lowered and a generally mixed-leaning-positive outlook on Jarmusch's filmography as a whole.

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