Drive-Away Dykes (Ethan Coen & Tricia Cooke, 2024)

[domino harvey]

Ethan Coen, in what is presumably not an April Fools gag, is co-writing (with wife Tricia Cooke) and directing a lesbian road trip comedy inspired by Russ Meyer

[knives]

I can’t remember, is this the one that was stepping back from films? Definitely sounds more bad bloodish between brothers now.

[Matt]

I don't think you need to invent bad blood between them for them to want to do completely different kinds of projects for a while. "I want to do a black-and-white Macbeth." "Oh, I wanted to do a lesbian road-trip movie." I suppose in the past we would have gotten them combined into one film, but now they're able to get them both made.

[black&huge]

Ethan Coen, in what is presumably not an April Fools gag, is co-writing (with wife Tricia Cooke) and directing a lesbian road trip comedy inspired by Russ Meyer

Everything stated here sounds amazing.

[Finch]

Great title and Ethan directing solo for the first time should make for an interesting comparison with their co-directing efforts. Not that I want to turn this into a "Team Joel" vs "Team Ethan" thing, but this project intrigues me a lot more than yet another Macbeth adaptation.

[knives]

I don't think you need to invent bad blood between them for them to want to do completely different kinds of projects for a while. "I want to do a black-and-white Macbeth." "Oh, I wanted to do a lesbian road-trip movie." I suppose in the past we would have gotten them combined into one film, but now they're able to get them both made.

I hope you’re right, but the whole explanation for Ethan not directing MacBeth was that he was wanting to focus on other pursuits for a while and then almost immediately he comes out with this (which does sound amazing). It’s a bit weird to me.

[domino harvey]

I'm already seeing comments like "Oh, now I know which brother was contributing which parts to their films"

[diamonds]

I don't think you need to invent bad blood between them for them to want to do completely different kinds of projects for a while. "I want to do a black-and-white Macbeth." "Oh, I wanted to do a lesbian road-trip movie." I suppose in the past we would have gotten them combined into one film, but now they're able to get them both made.

I hope you’re right, but the whole explanation for Ethan not directing MacBeth was that he was wanting to focus on other pursuits for a while and then almost immediately he comes out with this (which does sound amazing). It’s a bit weird to me.

I wouldn't worry too much, it sounds like they're doing alright:

I still get to see Ethan, and in fact, because they’re not working together, we see Ethan… I get to see him more because we have dinner with them. Joel, when they worked together, they were tired of each other. They didn’t want to have dinner with each other. Now we actually seek out more time with them that I get to experience.

...

[Ethan] came to visit [the Macbeth set] and it was great because he came to visit and he really enjoyed being there because he didn’t have to work. He sat by the monitor and he hung out with Joel, and he saw everybody that he has worked with. And then he texted me the next day and he said, that was so great, I loved being there, and I’m right, I don’t want to do it for a while. That’s a lot of work. I’m tired.

And Joel:

Not like we don’t have different interests and different ideas and predilections and all the rest of it. After 35, almost 40 years of working with my brother, we both were like, you know, we’re getting on. There are things that we want to do that we kind of take a break from each other and we pursue other things, and I think that this play in particular, doing Shakespeare is probably something that Ethan wouldn’t have been as interested in doing. And he’s doing things now that I’m not that interested in doing, and we’ve always done that when we aren’t making movies.

...

It doesn’t mean we’ll never work together again, it just means that here we’re not.

[Roger Ryan]

And then there's Ethan Coen's "vicious" take-down of his brother's movie... which probably would never have been written had the brothers actually been on bad terms.

EDIT: Although I now realize the parenthetical disclaimer at the end implies that Coen was not the actual writer. It that just another gag? I don't know what to believe!

[Computer Raheem]

I'm here for whatever the Coens (together or not) do, but I do hope someone convinces Ethan and co. to change that title (presuming it's in stone, of course). The last thing I need to see is a Coen brother getting cancelled by Film Twitter.

[MichaelB]

And then there's Ethan Coen's "vicious" take-down of his brother's movie... which probably would never have been written had the brothers actually been on bad terms.

EDIT: Although I now realize the parenthetical disclaimer at the end implies that Coen was not the actual writer. It that just another gag? I don't know what to believe!

I assumed from the start that this was as tongue-in-cheek as the similarly vicious takedown of their work by their editor Roderick Jaynes, published as the introduction to one of the Faber editions of their screenplays. Since Jaynes came across as absolutely barking mad, it was quite a relief to discover a few years later that he wasn’t real.

In fact, given that the style of both pieces is markedly similar, I suspect the same author penned them.

[domino harvey]

I'm here for whatever the Coens (together or not) do, but I do hope someone convinces Ethan and co. to change that title (presuming it's in stone, of course). The last thing I need to see is a Coen brother getting cancelled by Film Twitter.

There’s like zero percent chance it stays. They’d automatically be guaranteeing that the film wouldn’t play a single multiplex in America

[theflicker]

Not sure if the article changed since the thread was started, but it now reads:

"Ethan Coen, half of the acclaimed sibling partnership known simply as the Coen brothers, has teamed up with Focus Features and Working Title for the feature project, which is currently untitled."

[Finch]

I'm at a loss as to what's meant to be offensive about the title? The word dyke? If it's a period piece, then the title just might have been reflecting the language of the time. I really wish people (not taking aim at anyone here) would take a step back and consider the context instead of immediately screaming murder. And hasn't the term been appropriated by some lesbians to mean toughness and being of strong character?

[Swift]

I generally agree with you but the argument from some quarters will be that Coen isn't a lesbian and therefore isn't allowed to use that terminology, much like he wouldn't be allowed to use say "queers" or "negroes" in the title without major backlash, regardless of whether the language is period specific.

[bad future]

As A Lesbian, *I* am not opposed to a theoretical world where there can be an Ethan Coen movie called Drive-Away Dykes (I'll probably like the movie!), but I'm not sure that means I think there should in this world, and my first thought was that there's no way it actually does get released with that title. It's just the kind room-silencing (depending on the room) faux pas that would precede any and all discussion of the film, sucking way more oxygen than you want for even an intentionally attention-grabbing title. Yes, the word's pejorative connotations have been reclaimed by many, I'm sure there are more still who have always used it proudly to self-describe, and I trust the title is meant affectionately; but it's still so loaded and would understandably be so hard for lots of people to take in good faith that Coen and Cooke understand all its nuances if indeed that would make it okay for anyone who doesn't identify that way to use that word for others, let alone in the title of a commercial product. I suspect there are significantly more people who'd have a strong reaction to the title than there are people invested in the artistic integrity of the next Coen project, especially once it isn't limited to film circles.

Yeah, optimizing everything for the worst-faith possible responses is giving us less characterful (or less characterfully-packaged) art, but there are worse reasons than this and I'm trying to keep a sense of perspective. I feel exhausted even typing this all out; there's no way a title is worth them making this conversation their life for however long it takes to market and release. Hopefully most future discussion of the film is actually about the film.

[Finch]

I really appreciate your perspective on this, bad future. And yes, I'd rather have a great film with a less loaded title if that helps focusing the conversation on the film itself than one aspect of it, and I absolutely wouldn't blame Ethan and Tricia for deciding that this particular title isn't worth the hassle and distraction.

[therewillbeblus]

Likewise, and while it may have felt exhausting typing that out I’m glad you did because it’s a valuable perspective and ultimate point of taking the world as it is and understanding the nature of loud voices that trigger headlines tend to sway further in the polarities. That’s just the internet. I don’t think it’s pessimistic either though- re: “optimizing everything for the worst-faith possible responses” - it’s the nature of the beast we’re working with, and thankfully (or hopefully) many of us have full enough lives where film Twitter doesn’t resemble average ‘humanity’ as it stands in our current climate. Being safe regarding a title change that doesn’t impact the script is fine, but when the movie turns into something else, then we can worry

[bad future]

Thanks for hearing me out, and yeah, it's probably unreasonable to put the onus of "good faith" entirely on the audience when the concession we're talking about is simply not titling it with a word often considered a slur or at least off limits to outsiders. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (for the record I don't claim to have ever personally identified with the word or been called it, I have just spent enough time in queer circles to know lots of folks do have that baggage. I'm also probably not alone in thinking it sounds like a fun time as is, while seeing the discourse coming and thinking "please spare us, there's still time!!")

[pistolwink]

Is "dyke" considered a slur these days? In the 90s and 00s, many of the lesbians I knew embraced it proudly—this was a key part of sort of post-riot grrl/queercore identity, reclaiming that term.

[knives]

It’s a bit like the n word in that if acceptable it is only when used by members of the in group.

[FrauBlucher]

And then there is this, which has been around much longer than I thought. I do think there is less sensitivity about this word than others. My neighbor owns a lesbian bar in Manhattan and the use of this word does not create derision.

[Soothsayer]

Would you be willing to accept that there *is* derision if someone who is not lesbian uses the word?

[FrauBlucher]

It’s not whether I’m willing. Lol. But you can make that case with almost anything. Coen probably wouldn’t have used that in the title if it was problematic

[bad future]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the word hasn't been reclaimed by lots of people or that there aren't contexts where this title would seem unremarkable. Previously I focused on the word itself but I guess the other major part of why it feels ill-considered to me is I think the Coens are pretty low on the list of people who could do it without raising eyebrows, generating thinkpieces, whatever, as they seem like "names" enough that it's possible to not have any investment in or affection for their films but still be aware of them enough to know they aren't lesbians and are popular with critics, awards, "film bros" etc. Like if Tarantino is the absolute last person who could do it without his 'right' to do it being upwards of 50% of all discourse about the movie from now til the end of time (and he's really probably in a league of his own) Ethan Coen feels like a tier or two away from that, enough that it's hard to imagine he likes the title enough to want to answer for it however many times he might be asked to. Of course I could be totally wrong; maybe it'll come out and connect with the people who might like it and be ignored by everyone else! I would be happy if it did.