Passages

Discuss films and filmmakers of the 20th century (and even a little of the 19th century). Threads may contain spoilers.
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Izo
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:59 pm

Re: Passages

#7551 Post by Izo » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:25 am

Hargrove was a giant (and don't forget Joshua Redman and Brad Mehldau from that 90s group, two of the best improvisational talents I've ever heard), but in recent years there have been a number of talented jazz groups like The Bad Plus, but a trio of newer bands from the UK - GoGo Penguin, Sons of Kismet, and especially Mammal Hands - are doing wonderful things with improvisational music. They may not swing, but I feel like jazz is doing just fine.

Edit: Also, check out Vijay Iyer. He's the best "young lion" that comes to mind and he's a brilliant musician.

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Passages

#7552 Post by hearthesilence » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:37 am

Lemmy Caution wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:12 am
I'm wondering if a film like Whiplash aroused any interest in jazz or just confirms the autopsy.
I don't think that film did anything for jazz, and even if it did, I'd be skeptical if it was a lasting impact. Think about Ken Burns's misbegotten documentary series for PBS: despite it's many, many faults as a poor, somewhat sensationalist and very biased critical history of jazz, it gave the music its best marketing push in decades, and sales for jazz records did see a substantial increase. But that faded within a few years - worse, the market plummeted, and it never recovered with many jazz labels waving the white flag by folding up or converting most (if not all) of their back catalog to streaming and burn-on-demand only.

Chazelle is an excellent craftsman, but I said this before elsewhere, his ideas (or really his viewpoint) can be a bit meat-headed, and his views on music are easily the worst example of this. I enjoyed La La Land, but the commentary on music is simple and narrow-minded, so much that I wished Kamasi Washington would crash into the picture and upturn everything he was trying to say about jazz and its current relation to popular music.

Hargrove was notable for playing on some landmark recordings outside of jazz too, and in many ways Washington has done the same to a much greater extent, as seen by his work with Kendrick Lamar.

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domino harvey
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Passages

#7553 Post by domino harvey » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:12 pm

If I had to choose between someone who was passionate about Jazz but maybe didn't have the fullest breadth of nuance or complexities, like Ryan Gosling in La La Land, or someone who exhaustingly nitpicked and obsessively derided depictions of Jazz in popular movies for failing their purity tests, there is no fucking contest which one I'd side with

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Lemmy Caution
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:26 am
Location: East of Shanghai

Re: Passages

#7554 Post by Lemmy Caution » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:56 pm

Izo wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:25 am
Hargrove was a giant (and don't forget Joshua Redman and Brad Mehldau from that 90s group, two of the best improvisational talents I've ever heard), but in recent years there have been a number of talented jazz groups like The Bad Plus, but a trio of newer bands from the UK - GoGo Penguin, Sons of Kismet, and especially Mammal Hands - are doing wonderful things with improvisational music. They may not swing, but I feel like jazz is doing just fine.

Edit: Also, check out Vijay Iyer. He's the best "young lion" that comes to mind and he's a brilliant musician.
Yes, Redman and Mehldau too. I also left out saxophonist Chris Potter and trumpeter Terence Blanchard.

I've never heard of any of those bands. The name Vijay Iyer is somewhat familiar, but don't think I've heard anything of his. So I'll give a listen.

The other day I was checking out some Bria Skonberg on youtube. She's Canadian, now based in Brooklyn, around 35 years old. Favors old standards, plays a Louis Armstrong inspired trumpet and sings sultry standards. One clip she's seated next to Woody Allen at the Cafe Carlisle. Another she's doing a fun raucous version of Janis Joplin's Mercedes Benz. She has a nice stage presence. Here's her doing Bye Bye Blackbird on a street corner in Vail (the vid is mostly a Vail promo interspersed with the band). Her last album was crowdfunded. So she's one of the only this-decade jazz performers I'm familiar with.
I need to check out her albums.

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Passages

#7555 Post by hearthesilence » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:01 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:12 pm
If I had to choose between someone who was passionate about Jazz but maybe didn't have the fullest breadth of nuance or complexities, like Ryan Gosling in La La Land who also exhaustingly nitpicked and obsessively derided the latest bands for failing their purity tests, there is no fucking contest which one I'd side with
Fixed.

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Big Ben
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
Location: Great Falls, Montana

Re: Passages

#7556 Post by Big Ben » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:05 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:12 pm
If I had to choose between someone who was passionate about Jazz but maybe didn't have the fullest breadth of nuance or complexities, like Ryan Gosling in La La Land, or someone who exhaustingly nitpicked and obsessively derided depictions of Jazz in popular movies for failing their purity tests, there is no fucking contest which one I'd side with
I very much agree with this. No True Scotsman is a thing and I've always detested the completely asinine purity tests set forward by individuals who like gatekeep.

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Caligula
Carthago delenda est
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:32 am
Location: George, South Africa

Re: Passages

#7557 Post by Caligula » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:29 am

Ivan March, longtime critic for Gramophone magazine, as well as editor of the sadly departed Penguin Guide to Classical Music

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GaryC
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:56 pm
Location: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK

Re: Passages

#7558 Post by GaryC » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:36 am

Eleanor Witcombe, who adapted The Getting of Wisdom and My Brilliant Career for the screen, plus stage and television work. She was 95.

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MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
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Re: Passages

#7559 Post by MichaelB » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:09 pm

I think all the big names (Kazimierz Karabasz, Tomasz Stanko, Piotr Szulkin) were flagged up here at the time, but here's a list of every Polish film and TV professional who died over the previous twelve months.

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MichaelB
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Re: Passages

#7560 Post by MichaelB » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:25 pm

One from a few months ago that I've only just spotted: French director Claude Bernard-Aubert, who died on 25 June at the age of 88.

Probably best known in respectable circles for the 1973 Jean Gabin thriller L'affaire Domenici, Bernard-Aubert is perhaps rather better known in less respectable circles for being one of the most prolific directors contributing to France's so-called golden age of porn, making several 35mm hardcore films a year between 1976 and 1987 under the anagrammatic pseudonym Burd Tranbaree.

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Re: Passages

#7561 Post by Dylan » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:39 pm

Composer Francis Lai, probably best known for Love Story (for which he won an Oscar) and A Man and a Woman (as well as most of Claude Lelouch's subsequent films), he also scored such films as Emmanuelle II, Hannibal Brooks, Mayerling, Anima Persa, Bilitis, and many more. I've always loved his music.

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bearcuborg
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:30 am
Location: Philadelphia via Chicago

Re: Passages

#7562 Post by bearcuborg » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:49 am


CJG
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:13 am

Re: Passages

#7563 Post by CJG » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:21 pm


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Big Ben
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
Location: Great Falls, Montana

Re: Passages

#7564 Post by Big Ben » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:25 pm

CJG wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:21 pm
Douglas Rain
An iconic voice, literally.

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Feego
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Passages

#7565 Post by Feego » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:15 am


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mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Passages

#7566 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:13 pm

Stan Lee discussion moved here

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FrauBlucher
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: Greenwich Village

Re: Passages

#7567 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:24 pm


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Lemmy Caution
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:26 am
Location: East of Shanghai

Re: Passages

#7568 Post by Lemmy Caution » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:46 pm

Here's a fun vid of Roy Clark playing with Johnny Cash.
Check out how good Clark is at having fun, clowning around and playing great guitar all at the same time.

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FrauBlucher
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: Greenwich Village

Re: Passages

#7569 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:00 pm

Thanks. That was fun. Definitely a talented guy. As a city slicker I always enjoyed Hee Haw.

While we're posting links, here's one with Glen Campbell and Clark playing Ghost Riders in the Sky

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joshua
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:11 pm

Re: Passages

#7570 Post by joshua » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:42 pm

His early work as the guitar player in Wanda Jackson's band was also great.

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djproject
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:41 pm
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Re: Passages

#7571 Post by djproject » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:35 am


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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: Passages

#7572 Post by colinr0380 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:54 pm

Very sad news. I just received my copy of The Princess Bride and was looking forward to listening to the commentary over everything else, just for Goldman!

It goes without saying but as well as The Princess Bride and his screenplays his books on screenwriting and the Hollywood process - Adventures in the Screen Trade and Which Lie Did I Tell? - are indispensible insights into the often disillusioning process of endless script revisions, and they are often very funny too! I have not yet had the chance to see Absolute Power, the 1997 Clint Eastwood film that he wrote, but he devotes a chapter to it, calling it "the hardest screenplay that I ever wrote" in Which Lie Did I Tell?

I would also highly recommend the other piece of media critique that William Goldman was involved in: popping up as the uncredited 'special guest' moderator chatting with screenwriter David Koepp on one of the commentary tracks for Panic Room. It is one of my favourite commentary tracks mostly because Goldman makes for a great moderator, continually probing Koepp with questions about how he tackled certain aspects of the structure of the story and exactly why things turned out one way and not the other in the final film (including how they factored in the last minute change from Nicole Kidman to Jodie Foster, which affected the approach to the main character a bit). It is a fantastic listen and essential for anyone interested in the craft and compromise of screenwriting, from slightly grouchy opening to Goldman's rant about then current flop Gigli over the end credits!
Last edited by colinr0380 on Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Brian C
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Passages

#7573 Post by Brian C » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:02 pm

Goodman also wrote a series of annual Oscar articles for (I think) Premiere magazine in the 1990s that I enjoyed. I particularly remember his defense of TITANIC, in which he basically argued that Cameron’s script was unfairly snubbed, because people were focusing too much on the (terrible) dialogue while ignoring how well-structured it is.

It was an insight into scriptwriting that really affected how I watch movies.

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hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: Passages

#7574 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:22 pm

colinr0380 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:54 pm
Very sad news. I just received my copy of The Princess Bride and was looking forward to listening to the commentary over everything else, just for Goldman!
To be brutally honest, I'm not a fan of his work, but The Princess Bride, which he adapted from his own novel, is indeed wonderful.

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Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Re: Passages

#7575 Post by Dylan » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:59 pm

In my early twenties, I tackled Goldman's long 1964 novel Boys and Girls Together, which is so great that I got through it in just a few days. Within a few months I'd read every single one of Goldman's novels. Most of them are amazing - Temple of Gold is probably my favorite after Boys and Girls Together. Goldman wrote a bunch of screenplays and his books on the medium are fun & insightful, but I think his greatest talent by far was as a novelist, and I was always hoping he would write one more novel (particularly since his final novel, Brothers, a sequel to Marathon Man, didn't work for me). Of the films he wrote screenplays for, my favorite is Magic (1978), which I love (though it only adapts the final 1/3 of the novel). R.I.P.

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