Film Noir : A Guide

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Ovader
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#26 Post by Ovader » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:38 am

Found out there is another Silver/Ursini Noir Collection being put together and one chapter is about the French Noirs of the Occupation. Melville's 'Le silence de la mer' is one such film discussed.

Se.Vero
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#27 Post by Se.Vero » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:59 am

hi @ all, that's my first post here on this board. :)

great list in the OP, i am glad i found it.

But i couldn't find "They Made Me A Fugitive" aka. "I Became A Criminal" from 1947 on the list.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039895/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is it there under another title, am i blind, or is there a reason why it's not on the list?

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antnield
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#28 Post by antnield » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:47 am

Se.Vero wrote:Is it there under another title, am i blind, or is there a reason why it's not on the list?
It's in the Foreign Noir, Britain section. (Second post on page one.)

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#29 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:03 pm

TCM's Sunday morning program dedicated to film noir and hosted by Eddie Muller called Noir Alley is showing He Ran All the Way (1951) tomorrow. I've never seen this before. I'm looking forward to it. Plus, Kino released this on bluray.

Muller does terrific intros and outros on these films. If you like noir, Sunday mornings are a must see or to dvr.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#30 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:33 pm

Muller on whether Gaslight is a noir. Domino take a swing at this...

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domino harvey
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#31 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:47 pm

I file the Blu with my noirs...

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#32 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:53 pm

I figured you would be in that camp. I'm a little surprised that Muller was not

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domino harvey
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#33 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:57 pm

I honestly can’t remember if Muller is a style Noir guy or a thematics Noir guy, but any good thematic Noir adherent surely recognizes it as a noir (myself included)

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#34 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:03 am

Themes of Gaslight are very much noir. Cukor and his DP Joseph Ruttenberg stylistically create a noir atmosphere. The misunderstanding folks may have is with the era that the film takes place. Most folks (not talking about forum folks) may think that noirs are only noirs relating to the time period of that when the film is made (40s and 50s), which is mistake to assume that. And that's why Muller surprises me with his fence sitting position

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domino harvey
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#35 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:45 am

I could see someone struggling with Footsteps in the Fog (though its wicked finale alone should make its noir bonafides clear) because it’s a period piece in color, but the idea that all noirs are contemporary isn’t accurate— isn’t So Evil, My Love a period piece too?

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#36 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 pm

Unintended consequences, I'm putting those two films on my need to see list... I think that noir has such a narrow scope when one is looking inward to the genre, which is probably due to fedoras, trench coats, dames and a murder. Muller plays a part into that specific ideal of the genre. I'm sure that most people that tune into Noir Alley expect those elements. I do agree with you that theme is just as important as style and therefore widens the genre to more then what most think and that it could very well be a period film that can be a noir

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#37 Post by Rayon Vert » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:45 pm

I have to admit spontaneously I don't tend to think of this film as a noir, so that I can relate to Muller's hesitation. Can you guys be a bit more specific regarding the noir themes or other noir characteristics here? In terms of atmosphere, I'd tend to label it more as Gothic, though of course Gothic and noir can overlap.

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domino harvey
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#38 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:13 pm

A spouse trying to kill their partner by inducing mental illness? That hits psychological elements, criminal elements including attempted murder, deceit... I could go on. What more do you need?

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knives
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#39 Post by knives » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:18 pm

Those are prominent elements of gothic literature as well though?

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domino harvey
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#40 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:24 pm

What stops it from being both? I’m saying denying it is a noir is silly

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knives
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#41 Post by knives » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:27 pm

Oh. That argument makes more sense. I thought you were make a statement of exclusivity.

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domino harvey
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#42 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:36 pm

There are many noirs that bleed two or more genres. I programmed a whole week of such films (the Spiral Staircase, the Naked Spur, etc) when I did my huge noir unit where my students all watched ~50 or more noirs

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#43 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:09 pm

I was trying to think of noir that takes place at the time it was made that thematically resembles Gaslight. Then I remembered that Noir Alley aired The Sign of the Ram three weeks back. The idea of gaslighting or psychologically controlling a situation is very evident in The Sign of the Ram. The means to an end may be a little different than in Gaslight but the theme is the same.

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knives
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#44 Post by knives » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:19 pm

Theres also that Vincent Price Alfred Werker film Shock.

Nw_jahrles
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#45 Post by Nw_jahrles » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:28 am

David Bordwell quotes a Variety article from the mid-40’s classifying Rebecca, Phantom Lady, Dark Waters, Mask of Dimitrios, Hangover Square and The Picture of Dorian Gray as examples of the new suspense picture.

Obviously most people wouldn’t classify all those films as noir.

Subsequently, if you are using thematics and not style to classify noir, should the 1940 adaptation of Gaslight be considered noir? Because it is generally labelled a psychological thriller today.

At the time filmmakers were making suspense films and if it was a male protagonist it was more private eye or criminal in an urban setting plotted. If it was a female protagonist it was more woman-in-peril, gothic, Bluebeard etc.

Noir is a particularly messy genre to classify as you can poke holes in the stylistic classifications too (many noirs do not have deep shadows, exaggerated depth-of-field etc.)

Tromroan
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#46 Post by Tromroan » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:55 am

I hope this isn't out of place, but this is the only thread I've found that mentions the film "Obsession / the Hidden Room (Edward Dmytryk 1949) R2 Fabulous". I have been trying to find out who owns the rights to this film for ages, but have had no luck. Only on this site have I discovered "Fabulous" films, but I know all of the main crew/cast are dead.

Would anyone have any more information on this film?

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knives
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#47 Post by knives » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:58 am

Criterion seem to have the US rights and stream it regularly if you want a look see.

Tromroan
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Re: Film Noir : A Guide

#48 Post by Tromroan » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:39 pm

Thank you Knives!

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