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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:28 pm
FF is NOT a holdout against DCP. Years ago, they actually had a one-week program (which I did not attend) comparing 35mm to DCP. Any idiot would prefer 35mm, but the point of the program seemed to be, DCP has NO ARTIFACTS, it is CLEAN, blah blah. That killed FF for me. I can cite numerous NYC theaters that have shown 35mms of films that FF showed in DCP, AFTER the DCPs were created. Obviously Metrograph and Anthology are the main proponents of 35mm. Also Quad, MOMI and even FSLC to some extent. Film Forum is the main enemy of proper repertory film projection, as compared to the aforementioned. In addition to the horrible location, theatre design and programming, Film Forum is a disgrace.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:11 am 
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I had a conversation with Bruce Goldstein a few weeks ago about this subject, film and DCP. He said it is getting harder and harder to get decent 35mm prints. Especially, when they come from a major studio. Studios would rather send out DCPs than 35mm reels. Then he added that he'd rather show DCPs than less than adequate 35mms, which I agreed with. That's just me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:19 am 
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I vastly prefer a good 35mm print, but with a strong emphasis on good. I've been disappointed by beat-up faded prints in the past to the point where I felt like I was better off renting a disc. Not often, but this was before DCP's started taking over and it was common to see "new 35mm print" advertised everywhere, so if the supply of good prints is dwindling from usage and lack of availability, I'm not going to get a pitchfork and torch out over this.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:53 am 
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I really don't get J Adams' hatred of FF. The repertory screenings aren't the most adventurous, but they are frequently comprehensive and cohesive. There's a good mixture of stuff we've all seen (NYC Films) and more adventurous/eclectic stuff (Mexican film retrospective recently, 40s/50s Sci-Fi, 1933 retro).

The only projection problems I've ever had there (and I've seen probably over two dozen films there on 35mm) was during the last 3-D retrospective where I believe two projectors had to be used to display the archival 3-D format. I maintain the worst thing about FF is the clientele who are often inconsiderate, rude, and yes, elderly, which is the main thing that keeps me away at this point.

I do agree it's been underwhelming to tour the same 4k/2k restorations recently for two weeks at a time, and it's certainly kept me away.

I got to encounter my first obnoxious old person at Metrograph the other day though, during their screening of She Done Him Wrong who over-laughed at every little joke in a crowd of 10 people.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:12 am 
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I encounter obnoxious audience members with regularity at every venue. It may be this city because I rarely had that problem elsewhere. And yes, they are always older viewers - Jesus, are we going to become like that when we're old?

Some favorites:

A French couple telling a scholar to cut an introduction short (but fortunately was shouted down by audience members).

A fight that almost broke out between two audience members over seating - after the film had already started.

Someone telling two audience members not to laugh during what to me seemed like intentionally funny moments at the beginning of Eastern Promises. ("I fail to see the humor!" - it was like The Candidate)

Someone telling my friend not to talk during the opening trailer, lecturing him that it would ruin the movie going experience.

This one's after the film, but someone spotted an older man coming very close to knocking into something. He told him to be careful - not lecturing him, but in a tone that was clearly along the lines of "be careful, I don't want to see you hurt." The guy shot back "I'm blind, fuckface!" Yeesh.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:23 am 
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Was the fight that almost broke out during that screening of Chimes at Midnight I was also at two years ago at FF?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:32 am 
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No, it was at Douglas Sirk's All That Heaven Allows at MoMA, Theater 1 (the big one), and I think it was an early Saturday afternoon, with plenty of seats left.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:33 am 
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Yes, I was at the Chimes screening as well. It happened a few rows behind me. Goldstein was there and told them to cut it out.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:37 am 
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Hah! No shit? I wasn't that close, but it involved an older woman, right? From what I can recall, she would not quit. Like she left but eventually came back, sat maybe a row or two behind where she wanted to sit, and kept badgering the guy, loudly.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:40 am 
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I have remarked about it in other threads (or this one), but the best/worst experience I ever had at Film Forum was of seeing Unfaithfully Yours which was one of the funniest films I've ever seen and absolutely amplified by seeing it with a crowd. That said, the person in front of me laughed heartily at every tossed off line, and during the murder scene in the flashback, literally threw his arms up in the air as he laughed. It was the funniest moment in the film, and totally ruined for me, and I grabbed the guys arms to put them down. No manners.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:41 am 
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hearthesilence wrote:
Hah! No shit? I wasn't that close, but it involved an older woman, right? From what I can recall, she would not quit. Like she left but eventually came back, sat maybe a row or two behind where she wanted to sit, and kept badgering the guy, loudly.


May be a different experience, but the screening I was at as the opening credits rolled one old guy just began to shout, "STOP IT! STOP TOUCHING ME!" and was quickly escorted away.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:50 am 
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Drucker wrote:
I grabbed the guys arms to put them down. No manners.

Drucker wrote:
May be a different experience, but the screening I was at as the opening credits rolled one old guy just began to shout, "STOP IT! STOP TOUCHING ME!" and was quickly escorted away.

:-k


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Drucker wrote:
May be a different experience, but the screening I was at as the opening credits rolled one old guy just began to shout, "STOP IT! STOP TOUCHING ME!" and was quickly escorted away.

I don't think it was the same screening, but hard to sat - in memory these incidents can bleed into one giant mass, and I've been to screenings where more than one ruckus breaks out.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:03 pm 
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domino harvey wrote:
Drucker wrote:
I grabbed the guys arms to put them down. No manners.

Drucker wrote:
May be a different experience, but the screening I was at as the opening credits rolled one old guy just began to shout, "STOP IT! STOP TOUCHING ME!" and was quickly escorted away.

:-k


Damn you got me.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:35 pm 
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You guys are providing me with much needed context to put that Cinemania documentary into!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:45 pm 
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A documentary definitely should be made on the weirdos who attend FF & FSLC... I wish I remembered what movie it was but I was at FF for a fight between two women, another time in a flashback to the 80s these two old hags were arguing about Curtis Sliwa... personally with the homogenized nature of the 2017 city I love every second of it.

The most recent fun was this woman losing her shit at Julia Ducournau at Walter Reade... lady interrupted her speaking saying she's going on and on without making any points just like her movie before storming out of the theater. In the lady's defense Ducournau was boring AF.

***

What was not boring that happened recently was going to a weekday morning screening of Passengers back in January at the AMC on 42nd it was me and this Asian guy a few rows in front...

then I noticed a dude with a chick in the corner

'Oh shit it's going to be on this morning' I said to myself...

and it finally happened...

they (teenagers likely) started fucking.

Not like nervous lets have a thrill sex in a theater type fucking...

full on uninhibited I don't give a damn about anything but that dick right now fucking.

The girl put on the best performance I've seen inside a theater in years.

Funny thing about it was when they finished, about 45 minutes in, they got up and left.

I gave them a nice hand on their way out.

She smiled.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:45 am
Black Hat wrote:

What was not boring that happened recently was going to a weekday morning screening of Passengers at the AMC on 42nd

they (teenagers likely) started fucking.

They had a collective memory of what went on regularly on 42nd Street thirty years ago. Maybe proximity to Port Authority has something to do with it?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:26 am 
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Drucker wrote:
That said, the person in front of me laughed heartily at every tossed off line, and during the murder scene in the flashback, literally threw his arms up in the air as he laughed. It was the funniest moment in the film, and totally ruined for me, and I grabbed the guys arms to put them down. No manners.
Sounds a bit like this guy.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:38 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:28 pm
All interesting points of view. DCP's of old B&W films are generally OK. But for older color films, generally speaking, 2K DCP's are often fuzzy and washed out as compared to 35mm, even damaged 35mm. 4K is a different story, e.g. the 4K of Once Upon A Time in America. But in any event, I would rather see a ratty 35mm (as long as it hasn't turned pink) than a DCP video.

My dislike of Film Forum is not really worth going into, beyond the sheer repetitiveness of their programming, horrific audiences and ridiculous theatre "design". Yes, they are doing a comprehensive retro of Melville, many in 35mm, but they have been showing Melville constantly for ages. And then there are the endless pre-code and whatever series that seem annual. Of all the repertory houses in greater NYC, they are easily the least adventurous.

Yes, studios are increasingly reluctant to loan out 35mms.

Yet Anthology seems to finds 35mms of whatever that want to show (or choose not to show films not available in 35mm). They might be foreign prints that require softitiling, or may be English language films with Swedish subtitles, but whatever.

FF recently had a run of a something-K retro of Nashville. Skipped it. Metrograph showed it recently in 35mm and it was GORGEOUS and VIBRANT.

If you don't care about 35mm, that's fine. Some do, some don't. FF makes no apparent attempt to showcase 35mm, although with the Melville they are, making a rare exception, showing a couple of titles in both 35mm and DCP. Bravo to them for giving us a choice.

P.S. YES, it is the older people (defined as 65+) who disrupt retrospective films the most. Laughing OUT LOUD at EVERY line or talking or whatever. The 20/30-somethings who attend retrospectives have far more respect for what they are seeing, and, if it is in 35mm, they generally actually understand that this might be the last chance ever to see a particular film in 35mm. A lot of seniors just go to whatever to break up their day, and often end up at films they dislike, because they are there to see A film, not THE film. Given the vast choices one has (unless you can't afford a computer, in which case you can't afford regular filmgoing), I have no sympathy for these people.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:09 am 
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hearthesilence wrote:
I vastly prefer a good 35mm print, but with a strong emphasis on good. I've been disappointed by beat-up faded prints in the past to the point where I felt like I was better off renting a disc. Not often, but this was before DCP's started taking over and it was common to see "new 35mm print" advertised everywhere, so if the supply of good prints is dwindling from usage and lack of availability, I'm not going to get a pitchfork and torch out over this.

I'm with you all the way. Go grab that pitchfork and let's die on this hill together. My love of film stems from love for narrative, for storytelling, not a fetish for a particular delivery medium.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:41 am 
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J Adams wrote:
P.S. YES, it is the older people (defined as 65+) who disrupt retrospective films the most. Laughing OUT LOUD at EVERY line or talking or whatever. The 20/30-somethings who attend retrospectives have far more respect for what they are seeing, and, if it is in 35mm, they generally actually understand that this might be the last chance ever to see a particular film in 35mm. A lot of seniors just go to whatever to break up their day, and often end up at films they dislike, because they are there to see A film, not THE film. Given the vast choices one has (unless you can't afford a computer, in which case you can't afford regular filmgoing), I have no sympathy for these people.
I respectively disagree with this. First off, I go to the FF at least 25 times a year if not more. I've been there a good number of times that I've heard 20, 30, and 40 year olds laughing at lines that weren't meant to be funny. Especially, old noirs always get laughs from young folks who are there because they heard about the film with little knowledge of the history. This is a bane of my movie going experience.

I am not going to defend the seniors because they can be as annoying as piss, although I'll be one in another decade if I go by your definition :x , but they are an important part of repertory cinema. Your generalization of "they go to break up the day" or "there to see A film, not THE film" my be true for a small percentage, but many are very familiar with and know about cinema and why they are there. If you eliminate your "seniors" from the rep houses the rep houses take a big hit financially. The avg age for FF membership is 56. And they are not recent members but most have been members for many, many years, a good 15, 20 years, maybe longer. So, they are full of themselves because they feel entitled as if they own the place. Which makes them so friggin obnoxious. Unfortunately, the FF is a not-for-profit so the memberships are vital for it's existence.

Karen Cooper, one of the founders and the programmer for first run at the theater said in a discussion recently, that it's getting harder and harder to get young people to come to the FF. Which is as much a societal dilemma about movie going than anything else. She said they've reached out to NYU to create some kind of program geared to getting students to the theater as patrons and filmmakers (NYU is known for it's filmmaking program). And Bruce Goldstein schedules FF Jr. every Sunday morning geared to kids. Anything from Willy Wonka to Charlie Chaplin. I give them credit for trying to get younger folks involved to eventually replace the old crotchety people you dislike :wink: .


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:35 am 
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I'm rarely treated with packed and memorably boisterous FF screenings; it's probably a result of the types of films encourage me to make the trip. BUT there's always one person with 8 trashbags taking up a row and falling into a peaceful sleep. Hopefully, they're taking advantage of naptime at the member rate.

Apropos of this, I have fallen asleep at FF more than any other theatre, despite the tiny seats. There are a few films I've paid for and have never seen. It's a special type of irreversible kevyip. Don't ask me what happened in La Traversée de Paris (which apparently has 3 English titles and I only just found again because I Googled "Jean Gabin pig movie.")


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:49 pm
TMDaines wrote:
I'm with you all the way. Go grab that pitchfork and let's die on this hill together. My love of film stems from love for narrative, for storytelling, not a fetish for a particular delivery medium.

Okay, fine ... but if it's going to be on video, I'd prefer to watch it at home, without the peril of obnoxious crowds and projection gaffes. I grew up in the home video era and I'm not a big-screen purist, but celluloid is the only factor that will motivate me to schlep to a cinema and shell out for an overpriced ticket. Hard not to roll my eyes at such a cavalier dismissal of how much format impacts the experience of seeing a movie.

Largely in agreement with J. Adams's comments here. The "good" thing about Film Forum is that the dull programs and the substandard facilities cancel each other out. If, say, Anthology's programming were consigned to one of Film Forum's shoebox screens, that'd be a big waste.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Yep. I don't live in NYC, so if I'm going to hang here after work or come in on the weekend, am I going to do it to see celluloid which may never happen again, or am I going to watch something identical to the blu-ray I'm buying in two months. They cost the same, and I have the blu-ray forever. I know I'm spoiled by having this choice living in the NYC area, but it's my main motivational factor to see a movie.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:28 pm 
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During the huge cavalcade retros they have (upwards of 30 films with 1 showing each, maybe 2 for bigger titles), the film prints are of such a varied quality that I find them hard to recommend for a first-time viewer if the print is older than the 60s or even further. Sure, as historical artifact, it's fun to watch a print of Testament of Dr. Mabuse with a British film censor leader and with 1/3 of the dialogue unsubtitled and the other 2/3 dubiously translated, but I can't say I would have enjoyed that as a first go-round on the picture.

Like you intimate, I have little interest in watching the new 4k DCP 2-weeks-only run of a film that's about to be announced for Blu-ray release in 6 months; and those types of runs seem to be leading articles for FF. If the average FF member age is as old as mentioned above (and the age for general viewers probably not much younger than that), maybe it's the case that Blu-ray hording is a game for the young; even so, I always ask myself: "Aren't enough people going to want to own this new restoration anyway that it doesn't pay to have that many screenings of a DCP?" If memory serves, I feel like I've even seen some DCPs come by for films recently announced or even released on Blu-ray. Just seems like they're at cross-purposes, but they keep doing it, so it must be paying off.


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