2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

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tenia
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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#151 Post by tenia » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:04 am

I'm not sure people are ragging on superhero movies SFX for "merely existing at all".

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mfunk9786
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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#152 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:06 am

I think you're mashing together my two pet peeves, they weren't meant to be combined.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#153 Post by Brian C » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:15 am

mfunk9786 wrote:If anything aggravates me about film fandom in general in the last [insert amount of] years even more than superhero films becoming their own self-serious genre, it's people ragging on SFX for the sin of merely existing at all. Are we really questioning the validity of the SFX sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey now?
I dunno, are we? I don’t see anyone doing that in this thread.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#154 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:53 am

Brian C wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:15 am
mfunk9786 wrote:If anything aggravates me about film fandom in general in the last [insert amount of] years even more than superhero films becoming their own self-serious genre, it's people ragging on SFX for the sin of merely existing at all. Are we really questioning the validity of the SFX sequence in 2001: A Space Odyssey now?
I dunno, are we? I don’t see anyone doing that in this thread.
Zot! wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:06 am
and similar scenes that would appear to serve no purpose but to showcase the lovely effects work.
I mean, I do, but I know you can't resist a good row. Too busy today, though - enjoy whatever it is you wanted to accomplish here in my stead, though!

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#155 Post by tenia » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:05 pm

Do these exchanges always have to be this confrontational or can we instead suppose that maybe Brian simply missed this post and you could elaborate your views on SFX and stuff instead of simply answering this way ?
I don't mean that in any personal way, but from a rather outsider view like mine (I have no idea about the different past history between members here), it seems like some members have personal issues with other members. And if that's not the case, well, if it looks like it, there might be the need to tone down some responses.

In the present case, we could have had some potentially interesting discussion over the integration of SFX in a narration like 2001's vs something more recent. Instead, we just get pointless bickering. This is unfortunate and undermining.
On another board, I would have asked you for instance to elaborate what you meant about your ragging on SFX post since I seem to have had misunderstood what you meant. But I just don't think I should, because I feel I'm just likely to be slammed down for having misunderstood your point in the first place rather than being corrected through a simple but extended explanation of what you just meant.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#156 Post by Brian C » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:15 pm

For my part, I wasn't really trying to start a fight - I just didn't see anyone, as mfunk said, "ragging on SFX for the sin of merely existing at all." Even after his response, I don't think that's what Zot! was doing ... Zot! in fact says he liked the film. It was more a question of (as tenia put it) integration of those particular scenes with the narrative, which seems like very reasonable criticism to make.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#157 Post by whaleallright » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:19 pm

It's probably worth noting that, as of a few days ago, some of the venues listed on Warner's website as showing this in 70mm are actually showing the 2k or 4k DCPs (e.g., some Alamo Drafthouses in the DC area, and the Ambler and County near Philadelphia). They seem to have fixed those instances, but who knows if there are other mistakes that haven't been caught.

If you care about seeing this on 70mm, before you make plans, I would recommend checking the theater's website and calling the house manager to be absolutely sure.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#158 Post by Brian C » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:09 pm

Good advice! I will add only to be patient when the manager says in response, “Um ... well we’re showing it in IMAX.”

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#159 Post by Oedipax » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:03 am

I think the same error happened with Atlanta - at least, I could've sworn when I first looked at the Warner site, it was listed as 70mm but ended up being 4K IMAX.

I was lucky however to catch a 70mm screening in Paris this past May, and it certainly looked and sounded better than the 4K screening here last week, although everyone else I saw it with in Atlanta of course thought it looked fantastic in its own right (which to be fair it did).

One difference that jumped out at me seeing them both a few months apart is that the film projection was, unsurprisingly, more forgiving of the small handful of effects shots that aren't completely perfect (most notably some of the windows with people composited into larger shots, the plates do slide around a bit, not always perfectly tracking with the rest of the shot).

Could be that the subtle gate weave of the film projection is enough to smooth over our perception of these tiny flaws - one wonders if Kubrick, looking at a completely stable digital transfer, would have signed off on these or demanded further refinements!

The other big difference for me was the sound - especially the overture and the ear-piercingly loud cosmic alarm emitted by the Monolith. The alarm in particular was right at the pain threshold in the most glorious way, whereas the digital projection was loud but within more typical levels. That could just come down to projection/venue differences however.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#160 Post by ivuernis » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:25 pm

GoodOldNeon wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:57 pm
So, I saw the new 4K DCP version of 2001 tonight, and I thought it looked very yellow. I've seen some people suggesting that the pronounced teal/yellow seen in the trailer was added by whoever edited the trailer itself, but the version I saw tonight was definitely closer in colour to the trailer than to the 2007 Blu-ray. The most striking and distracting example was Dave walking down the "white" hall (c. 0:47). That said, it was still great seeing the film on the big screen for the first time.
I was going to wait for the UHD but decided to go to the final 4K DCP showing in my area just to check out the remastered colouring. I thought it looked fantastic with no noticeable yellowing apart from Dave Bowman in the "white hall" retrieving the AE35 replacement unit. That "white hall" was a VERY warm yellow lighting. I even put in my BD when I got home thinking maybe it was always a bit yellowish, but no it's white on the BD (but not Daz Ultra white like on the new upcoming BD cover either). That said in the 4K DCP (and the current BD too) anytime the entrance to the "white hall" is visible from scenes in the pod bay area it does have a somewhat warm glow to it. However, in Dave's scene it appears too warm in the 4K and maybe a little too white in the BD. I've heard in the IMAX version the white hall does indeed appear white as on the BD.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#161 Post by bunuelian » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:41 pm

When I first saw this on DVD I was amazed by how disorienting it was to see the film in a resolution that obliterated the sense of authenticity in the Dawn of Man studio sequences. Digital stripped away the scuzzy quality that masked some of the studio-ness, at least to my eye. Sounds like this process has only continued with successive generations of digitization.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#162 Post by Lost Highway » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:10 pm

I did not realise 2001 was supposed to look like a grindhouse film.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#163 Post by Michael Kerpan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:07 pm

I thought the previous BluRay looked spectacular. No problems enjoying any segment. Unless I upgrade our TV, no plan to replace the BRD we already have.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#164 Post by htom » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:29 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:07 pm
I thought the previous BluRay looked spectacular. No problems enjoying any segment. Unless I upgrade our TV, no plan to replace the BRD we already have.
About the only complaint I could concur with is that the texture of the screen used in the front projection shots in the "Dawn of Man" sequence was sometimes visible. This was usually in high contrast shots with the texture only visible in the sky.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#165 Post by Roscoe » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:32 am

So with all these differing versions of the film floating around, does this mean that Kubrick really left no specific notes or specifications as to the color timing of this film? Is that possible? The guy would leave detailed instructions to staff about exactly how to deal with fights among the cats in his household, but nothing about exactly how he wanted 2001 to look?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#166 Post by tenia » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:49 am

I guess I'm amongst the minority in thinking the current 2001 Blu-ray is quite dated and could definitely enjoy an update. It definitely uses an older master which, despite being rather unmaniputaled and natural looking, has this typical "pre-existing HD master" texture, but also probably could use a bump in encode (the older BD was using VC-1 at a mere 13.4 Mbps !). I'm quite certain that at least in terms of texture, the new BD should provide a visible change.
Last edited by tenia on Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#167 Post by ivuernis » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:55 am

Roscoe wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:32 am
So with all these differing versions of the film floating around, does this mean that Kubrick really left no specific notes or specifications as to the color timing of this film? Is that possible? The guy would leave detailed instructions to staff about exactly how to deal with fights among the cats in his household, but nothing about exactly how he wanted 2001 to look?
I've always thought the colour grading looked consistent across various releases I've seen: a 70mm showing in 2001, the current Blu-ray, a DCP release in 2014, and the latest 4K release last week. The only release which seems to be casting doubt on the colour grading is Christopher Nolan's "unrestored" 70mm which I have not seen but would regard as a one-off separate from the new restoration. I have confidence that the UHD will not disappoint - I mean it would take some effort to screw it up than to do it properly surely?

I guess the next great Kubrick debate will be around the grain (or lack thereof) whenever Eyes Wide Shut gets a remastering. BTW, do all current US releases of EWS still have the terrible black-cloaked figures CGI'ed in during the masked orgy scenes or has that sacrilege been rectified?
Last edited by ivuernis on Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#168 Post by Roscoe » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:59 am

ivuernis wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:55 am
The only release which seems to be casting doubt on the colour grading is Christopher Nolan's "unrestored" 70mm which I have not seen but would regard as a one-off separate from the new restoration. I have confidence that the UHD will not disappoint - I mean it would take some effort to screw it up than to do it properly surely? I guess the next great Kubrick debate will be around the grain (or lack thereof) whenever Eyes Wide Shut gets a remastering.
Yeah, that was pretty much my experience of it -- it always looked great until Nolan. I'm hoping that the new UHD etc. will not be the Nolan version. Is there confirmation of that anywhere?

Apologies for editing the comment, not looking to add confusion to confusion...
Last edited by Roscoe on Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#169 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:01 pm

No, there's confirmation that it will be

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#170 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:06 pm

ivuernis wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:55 am
...BTW, do all current US releases of EWS still have the terrible black-cloaked figures CGI'ed in during the masked orgy scenes or has that sacrilege been rectified?
The North American Blu-Ray release uses Kubrick's original footage (no CGI figures added). There was some talk of including both censored and uncensored versions on the disc, but only the uncensored version was included.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#171 Post by ivuernis » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:06 pm

Roscoe wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:59 am
ivuernis wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:55 am
The only release which seems to be casting doubt on the colour grading is Christopher Nolan's "unrestored" 70mm which I have not seen but would regard as a one-off separate from the new restoration. I have confidence that the UHD will not disappoint - I mean it would take some effort to screw it up than to do it properly surely? I guess the next great Kubrick debate will be around the grain (or lack thereof) whenever Eyes Wide Shut gets a remastering.
I'm hoping that the new UHD etc. will not be the Nolan version. Is there confirmation of that anywhere?
As I said I have not seen the Nolan version but the 4K version I saw looked consistent with previous releases and not look like the trailer for the Nolan version (yellow "spare parts tunnel" scene aside).

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#172 Post by ivuernis » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:10 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:06 pm
ivuernis wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:55 am
...BTW, do all current US releases of EWS still have the terrible black-cloaked figures CGI'ed in during the masked orgy scenes or has that sacrilege been rectified?
The North American Blu-Ray release uses Kubrick's original footage (no CGI figures added). There was some talk of including both censored and uncensored versions on the disc, but only the uncensored version was included.
Ok, that's good to know, must've just been the original VHS and DVD releases then. Don't see any reason for a version to include both the censored and uncensored versions. The censored version should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#173 Post by ivuernis » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:12 pm

Roscoe wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:59 am
ivuernis wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:55 am
The only release which seems to be casting doubt on the colour grading is Christopher Nolan's "unrestored" 70mm which I have not seen but would regard as a one-off separate from the new restoration. I have confidence that the UHD will not disappoint - I mean it would take some effort to screw it up than to do it properly surely? I guess the next great Kubrick debate will be around the grain (or lack thereof) whenever Eyes Wide Shut gets a remastering.
Yeah, that was pretty much my experience of it -- it always looked great until Nolan. Sorry to be a drag on this, but is there any way of knowing which version will be hitting UHD and home video and stuff? I'm hoping they'll all be clearly labelled.
AFAIK the Nolan version won't be getting released outside of the 70mm cinema release.

P.S. I hate that I'm now unconsciously referring to a "Nolan" version of 2001.

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#174 Post by whaleallright » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:29 pm

what exactly are the objections to the newly-struck 70mm prints?

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Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey (Stanley Kubrick, 1968)

#175 Post by senseabove » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:11 pm

whaleallright wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:29 pm
what exactly are the objections to the newly-struck 70mm prints?
They are vaguely claimed to have been derived from the original camera negatives, and definitely claimed to have had no restoration work done at all. So presumably just a flat OCN to new interpositive to new internegative to the release prints (though I've also read the opinion that the OCNs are too damaged for that to be true, so the new prints must be derived from an older IN, or possibly a new IN derived from an older IP). Which sounds great in theory—authenticity! original elements!—but it also means no damage repair, no dirt removal, etc., and in particular, no age-related color correction, so arguably the whites have yellowed a bit, brighter colors have faded a bit...

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