Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

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ianungstad
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Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#1 Post by ianungstad » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:04 pm

According to an article on the LA TIMES website, IFC is close to signing a distribution deal for the Werner Herzog 3D documentary Cave of Forgotten Dreams.

Apparently it got a great response at TIFF which led to an all-night bidding war. No official word as of yet that it's a done deal.

Would be a good acquisition! Roger Ebert has a wonderful review of the film on his site which has me very excited to see it. A couple of reviewers have mentioned that it's one of the best docs that Herzog has ever done. If it does go to IFC, I'm sure Criterion will be all over it.

ianungstad
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Re: Criterion and IFC

#2 Post by ianungstad » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:39 pm

Variety is reporting that it's a done deal:

IFC Films has snapped up U.S. distribution rights to Werner Herzog's 3D docu "Cave of Forgotten Dreams."

Insiders say the deal is locked but IFC have yet to confirm the deal.

Also in Toronto, IFC banked the first major deal of the fest with Rainn Wilson and Ellen Page starrer "Super."

"Cave" is repped by Submarine Entertainment, which is also selling Errol Morris' docu "Tabloid" here at the fest.

Herzog's pic, which he narrates, explores the Chauvet caves of southern France, which house the oldest known art creations of humankind and depict life some 30,000 years ago.

Pic has generated buzz since its screening at Toronto and has had a number of domestic buyers circling it since it screened this week. It also screened at Telluride pre-Toronto.

Herzog reaped box office success with his 2005 pic "Grizzly Man," which went on to generate more than $3 million in the U.S.

"Cave" deal was negotiated by Submarine's Josh Braun.

IFC Films has acquired all U.S. rights, except for television, to Werner Herzog's 3D documentary "Cave of Forgotten Dreams," which takes viewers on a tour of the ancient cave drawings in Chauvet-Pont-d'Arc in southern France.

The film had its first screening at the Toronto International Film Festival on Monday.

"Cave" was produced by Creative Differences in partnership with History Films, which will eventually air it on the History Channel, and the French Ministry of Culture and Communication as a co-production with Arte France and in association with More 4. It was produced by Erik Nelson, who produced Herzog's last two docs -- "Grizzly Man" and "Encounters at the End of the World" -- and Adrienne Cuiffo, with exec producers Dave Harding, David McKillop, Julian P. Hobbs, Molly Thompson and Tabitha Jackson.

IFC president Jonathan Sehring said, "We were completely blown away by this tour-de-force from Wener Herzog. This is what great 3D technology was created for."

The mid-six-figure deal for "Cave" was negotiated by IFC's Arianna Bocco and Betsy Rodgers with Josh Braun of Submarine Entertainment.

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Tom Hagen
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Re: Criterion and IFC

#3 Post by Tom Hagen » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:38 pm

O'Hehir gives Cave of Forgotten Dreams a rave early review:
Let me go over that again briefly: Yes, Werner Herzog has made a movie in 3-D that's largely set inside a cave full of Stone Age art. His producer, Erik Nelson -- who is a friend and an occasional Salon contributor -- says that Herzog is the first director of the new 3-D wave to use the technology for good, not for evil. Secondly, yes, the art is beautiful, even stunningly accomplished, and these images are breathtaking -- unlike anything you've seen before or will see again. And thirdly, yes, "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" will become a classic drug movie almost immediately, although the experience is mind-altering enough without any augmentation.

ianungstad
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#4 Post by ianungstad » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:06 pm

I live in a small town, so I'm not likely to catch this one during it's theatrical run. It will be interesting to see how it's presented on home video. I've seen one or two 3D films on dvd and it just looks awful. If Criterion handles the eventual home video release (which I think is quite likely) it will be interesting to see how they approach the material.

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knives
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#5 Post by knives » Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:57 pm

They would probably treat much the same way they did Flesh and Blood.

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Kellen
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#6 Post by Kellen » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:32 pm

I still haven't watched a 3D film yet, but for a Werner film/doc i'll throw down some cash if its playing around me.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#7 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu May 05, 2011 3:22 pm

Could anyone who's seen this comment on whether or not it's important to see it in 3D? It's opening in Philadelphia this weekend and will not be in 3D... I'll be seeing it regardless, but I'm curious as to whether or not I'd be upsetting poor Herzog if I saw a 2D print on my first go-around.

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swo17
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#8 Post by swo17 » Thu May 05, 2011 3:24 pm

I haven't seen it yet but At the Movies said this is the one movie you should see in 3D.

P.S. How can one tell if the 3D version will eventually be playing locally?

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Grand Wazoo
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#9 Post by Grand Wazoo » Thu May 05, 2011 4:05 pm

This absolutely needs to be seen in 3-D in my opinion. This gives you a much greater understanding of the depth/contours of the cave walls which is essential to fully appreciating the drawings. Aside from that, it's simply refreshing to see 3D used artistically and with a real purpose.

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tavernier
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#10 Post by tavernier » Thu May 05, 2011 4:34 pm

Grand Wazoo wrote:This absolutely needs to be seen in 3-D in my opinion. This gives you a much greater understanding of the depth/contours of the cave walls which is essential to fully appreciating the drawings. Aside from that, it's simply refreshing to see 3D used artistically and with a real purpose.
^^^what he said...

it's the only 3-D movie I've seen in a theater, and may be the last (unless Herzog shoots another)

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knives
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#11 Post by knives » Thu May 05, 2011 5:41 pm

what about the 3D Wenders film?

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Tom Hagen
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#12 Post by Tom Hagen » Thu May 05, 2011 6:54 pm

swo17 wrote:I haven't seen it yet but At the Movies said this is the one movie you should see in 3D.

P.S. How can one tell if the 3D version will eventually be playing locally?
Our upcoming arthouse releases through August are listed here, but there's nothing on the Herzog film yet (though you can see Uncle Boonmee on the big screen in June). I've actually been worried about this for some time; I don't know whether the Broadway or Tower have 3D capability, and I don't know whether the various multiplexes would ever in a million years play this. And I don't have 3D capability at home for the eventual Blu release because . . . well, 3D is stupid. Until now.

Surely SLC can't be the only locale with this problem?

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#13 Post by matrixschmatrix » Thu May 05, 2011 7:06 pm

Yeah, it's coming to the art theater here (Amherst, MA) on the 20th, but they've already said that they won't be showing it in 3D. I'm hoping it will get played in at least a couple of the big multiplexes- it seems as though they're desperate for things to put on their 3D screens sometimes, so maybe it will get a special engagement the way concert movies occasionally do.

And for the record, Coraline was in 3D, and very worth watching.

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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#14 Post by MichaelB » Fri May 06, 2011 6:25 am

The impression I get is that Wenders' Pina has to be seen in 3-D (the choreography is explicitly conceived with three-dimensional space in mind), whereas it's a bonus in the case of the Herzog.

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aox
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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#15 Post by aox » Fri May 06, 2011 11:53 am

I am not really a fan of 3D, but if that is how Herzog framed his film composition and his intent on how to see it, I guess I will see it in 3D. BAM has it. Going tomorrow or Sunday. Had no idea this was out until I saw this thread bumped, so thanks.

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zedz
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#16 Post by zedz » Fri May 06, 2011 4:48 pm

MichaelB wrote:The impression I get is that Wenders' Pina has to be seen in 3-D (the choreography is explicitly conceived with three-dimensional space in mind), whereas it's a bonus in the case of the Herzog.
I know what you mean, but isn't most choreography conceived with three-dimensional space in mind - i.e. wouldn't just about any film record of dance be a 'natural', or arguably 'necessary', 3D subject?

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MichaelB
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#17 Post by MichaelB » Fri May 06, 2011 5:46 pm

zedz wrote:
MichaelB wrote:The impression I get is that Wenders' Pina has to be seen in 3-D (the choreography is explicitly conceived with three-dimensional space in mind), whereas it's a bonus in the case of the Herzog.
I know what you mean, but isn't most choreography conceived with three-dimensional space in mind - i.e. wouldn't just about any film record of dance be a 'natural', or arguably 'necessary', 3D subject?
Yes, of course - I can't argue with that as a general principle! But in the case of Pina, the impression I get (I haven't had a chance to see it yet) is that the dance routines aren't just conceived for three-dimensional space in general, but specifically the three-dimensional cinematic space that Wenders creates around them.

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GaryC
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Re: Caves of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#18 Post by GaryC » Fri May 06, 2011 7:01 pm

MichaelB wrote:
zedz wrote:
MichaelB wrote:The impression I get is that Wenders' Pina has to be seen in 3-D (the choreography is explicitly conceived with three-dimensional space in mind), whereas it's a bonus in the case of the Herzog.
I know what you mean, but isn't most choreography conceived with three-dimensional space in mind - i.e. wouldn't just about any film record of dance be a 'natural', or arguably 'necessary', 3D subject?
Yes, of course - I can't argue with that as a general principle! But in the case of Pina, the impression I get (I haven't had a chance to see it yet) is that the dance routines aren't just conceived for three-dimensional space in general, but specifically the three-dimensional cinematic space that Wenders creates around them.
I'd say that was the case. (I saw Pina last weekend.)

I haven't seen Cave of Forgotten Dreams as yet - it's only showing in 2D in London at the moment, so I'll wait until somewhere (Prince Charles? BFI Southbank?) shows it in 3D.

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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#19 Post by Duncan Hopper » Sat May 07, 2011 6:10 am

Odeon Covent Garden is showing it in 3D at the moment, I saw it there the other day. Also showing in 3D at the Renoir I think.

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GaryC
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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#20 Post by GaryC » Sat May 07, 2011 2:25 pm

Duncan Hopper wrote:Odeon Covent Garden is showing it in 3D at the moment, I saw it there the other day. Also showing in 3D at the Renoir I think.
I just found out the Odeon Covent Garden has it in 3D - I'll try to see it there if it's still showing next week. I'm pretty certain the Renoir is showing it in 2D - I checked their programme information.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#21 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sat May 07, 2011 2:31 pm

I think this has gotten bumped (at least temporarily) here in Boston because the theater (Boston Common) must have decided that giving another screen to Thor this week would make more money. (Can't say I think their economic judgment is wrong).

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#22 Post by Roger Ryan » Sun May 08, 2011 1:04 pm

I saw this yesterday and will confirm that viewing it in 3-D is practically imperative to fully understanding the use of rock contours in the art. Herzog fully embraces the format and delivers some stunning images, especially since he's not using top-end cameras; the opening shot is so mesmerizing that I couldn't even concentrate on the director's opening narration. At the same time, there is a fairly superfluous scene featuring a scientist demonstrating how a Neanderthal would throw a spear that seems to exist only to poke the audience in the face with the object (it's as if Herzog is parodying the standard approach to 3-D filmmaking). I also noticed that there are at least two brief scenes where the 3-D effect appears to be post-converted from a 2-D image; in one, portions of the background disconcertingly jump to different points along the Z axis within the shot. Apart from these moments, this is the most pleasing 3-D experience I've had in years.

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manicsounds
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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#23 Post by manicsounds » Wed May 18, 2011 2:22 am

Still no release date for either "Cave" or "Pina" in Japan, which is a shame. Youd think Japan would acquire them quickly....

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#24 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:12 am

Just got back from seeing this introduced live by Herzog (which, if you're in NYC, you might still be able to do tomorrow.)

The core of the movie is so deeply moving- the sense of being in a space that reaches back to the origins of anything recognizable as human imagination or culture, and the sheer beauty and artistry of the paintings- that saying anything else about it seems almost redundant. From some of stranger digressions in the movie, you get the feeling Herzog felt that way too- the trip to the nuclear tropical zoo was particularly odd- but rather than weakening the experience, for me it balanced out some of the overwhelming awe of being in the cave with with some of the funnier aspects of the way Herzog's mind seems to work.

One thing that was noticeable (though not surprising, given who made the movie) was the total lack of CGI. If you're familiar with movies about subjects of this kind, one of the things they lean on heavily is CGI recreations of what the scientists think the past might have looked like- in this case, probably a recreation of the artists, of the animals they were painting, and of what the landscape would have looked like back then. There's a purity to Herzog's approach, a refusal to allow the viewer to see anything that isn't there, that is admirable, but I would be sort of curious to see what say an Attenborough documentary on the subject would look like.

It was also noticeable that Herzog was, for once, entranced by beauty without seeming to find any savagery in it- even the dead cave itself was beautiful to him.

After Herzog's intro, someone asked him if there was anything in the cave that he (Herzog) could connect to his artistic viewpoint and filmography- Herzog said that the lions, the ones in the back of the cave near the half woman, seemed to be expressing a yearning for prey that was not depicted, and were as such a representation of the unseen as much as the visible. That drive into the unseen, he said, was part of what he felt he had, and what he wanted to show.

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Re: Cave of Forgotten Dreams (Werner Herzog, 2010)

#25 Post by karmajuice » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:12 am

If this film were just ten hours of footage recording those two cave paintings -- the lions and the horses -- it would still be a great film. Anything that documents mankind's earliest surviving masterpieces is incredible.

I may say more on this later, but for the most part I agree with what the others have said. Remarkable film -- a beautiful subject, and a refreshingly lucid and thoughtful approach.

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