Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

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cantinflas
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#76 Post by cantinflas » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:48 am


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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#77 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:59 pm

jonah.77 wrote:
Not only did the image looked sharpened to a ridiculous degree at the screening I saw last night, but there was a constant juddering effect that looks like a frame-rate transfer problem. I recognized there are numerous shots that are sped-up for effect and everything is shot using a high shutter speed to eliminate motion blur, but even the few calmer scenes featuring slow pans of the landscape are jittery. It consistently had the look of a TV broadcast of a film that has been electronically time-compressed to fit it into a shorter time slot (you start getting the impression that frames are being dropped every second). I wonder if the theater I attended was doing this to fit in more screenings per day or if anyone else experienced this unappealing look?
I noticed this too; not just the obviously expressive speed-of-motion adjustments in action scenes, which are also a big part of The Road Warrior, but a variety of seeming frame-rate shifts and stuttering movements—which looked to me like dropped frames—in relatively sedate moments. I honestly couldn't say whether this is an artifact of Miller's post-production tweaking (he says he altered frame rates, subtly and not-so-subtly, in many if not most of the shots) or an artifact of the compression of the DCP or of its projection. When the Blu-Ray comes out, maybe we'll have an answer.
It's virtually unwatchable if you ask me. Frequently looks like a poorly converted illegal download.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#78 Post by pzadvance » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:07 pm

At least as of this posting you can check out the black and white, silent version that a fan has put together online.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#79 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:22 am

swo17 wrote:
jonah.77 wrote:
Not only did the image looked sharpened to a ridiculous degree at the screening I saw last night, but there was a constant juddering effect that looks like a frame-rate transfer problem. I recognized there are numerous shots that are sped-up for effect and everything is shot using a high shutter speed to eliminate motion blur, but even the few calmer scenes featuring slow pans of the landscape are jittery. It consistently had the look of a TV broadcast of a film that has been electronically time-compressed to fit it into a shorter time slot (you start getting the impression that frames are being dropped every second). I wonder if the theater I attended was doing this to fit in more screenings per day or if anyone else experienced this unappealing look?
I noticed this too; not just the obviously expressive speed-of-motion adjustments in action scenes, which are also a big part of The Road Warrior, but a variety of seeming frame-rate shifts and stuttering movements—which looked to me like dropped frames—in relatively sedate moments. I honestly couldn't say whether this is an artifact of Miller's post-production tweaking (he says he altered frame rates, subtly and not-so-subtly, in many if not most of the shots) or an artifact of the compression of the DCP or of its projection. When the Blu-Ray comes out, maybe we'll have an answer.
It's virtually unwatchable if you ask me. Frequently looks like a poorly converted illegal download.
Thanks (?) for the report on the Blu-ray edition. I'm a bit astonished that something that looks like a technical glitch is an inherent property of such a high-profile international release.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#80 Post by swo17 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:30 am

Note that I didn't watch it in theaters. For all I know the Blu-ray has preserved the intended look, and in really kinetic scenes I think the effect does work. But there were just so many more scenes where it was really distracting. A shame, as I otherwise kind of liked the movie!

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#81 Post by captveg » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:04 pm

Having seen the film five times in the theater and twice on home video, to the best of my memory the Blu-ray is pretty much identical to the digital projections I saw in regards to the frame rate manipulations. The majority of the film plays at a faster speed. (I've even watched scenes on the PAL DVD, which feels like a film being played at 32-34fps)

I personally think the manipulations fit the film like a glove, but obviously others disagree.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#82 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:21 pm


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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#83 Post by movielocke » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:20 am

I finally saw this, as life (and a desire to watch Mad Max and Road Warrior first) interfered in getting to the theatre last may/june.

And it's unfortunate I didn't see this then, when everyone was flipping their shit because my expectations would have been set at ordinary adrenaline blockbuster level. But, because the relentless sprays of orgasmic juices that have been spilt over this film nonstop for the last seven-eight months from every kind of filmgoer (including all the intense awards push and momentum) led me to think it was something special.

But it's not really all that special. It's beautiful to look at, and wonderfully visualized stunt work, but the world building is meh and there aren't any characters, other than the spray-paint face boy, all the other actors are really just doubling for their stunt performers occasionally giving them a breather.

It's fun, it's entertaining, kinetic and surprising throughout (really it's charming that they avoided it ever feeling repetitive, despite, the whole thing being a pop song stuck on repeat) , and it is gloriously smart about being fairly braindead like most eighties action movie, but this is hardly even the greatest eighties action movie.

So perhaps it's suffering from high expectations for me at this point, or perhaps it's suffering because someone posted the poster to facebook last week that said, "Mario Kart: Fury Road" and that somehow 'spoiled' the magical, enrapturing effect everyone else has experienced. I certainly enjoyed it, but it doesn't even rate as worth putting on my incomplete top ten for the year, so I suppose I feel rather disappointed.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#84 Post by who is bobby dylan » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:04 pm

Mad Max: Fury Road is special. It's just not special to you, which is fine. As far as I know there are no universally beloved films. Here's my opposite, but, no more valid reaction.

I loved the world building. I enjoyed the level of detail in the cars, weapons, costumes, and customs of the characters. I enjoyed even more the creative choice not to explain the meaning of any of these things. In fantasy movies there is usually a character (think Obi-Wan in Star Wars) who explains everything. Nothing is explained in Fury Road. Why do they have an alter of steering wheels, why do they have engines scarified on their chests, why do they call themselves half lives, why do they spray paint their mouths chrome and witness each other, why is it called a bullet farm, etc? I like that the film just moves along and leaves you to tease out their meaning for yourself.

I loved the characters. I thought Tom Hardy was great as Max. I liked the decision to have Max start the film as a wild animal (he is literally muzzled for the first half of the movie) who can't relate to those around him and who only slowly opens up through the course of the film through his engagement with Furiosa's quest to escape with the Wives. I thought Immortan Joe was a great villain and that the shot of the muscled armor being put on his sickly body was a smart way to instantly establish his character and setup the politics of the film. And I thought Imperator Furiosa was a great hero. Charlize Theron did an excellent job of making us believe that her character was as much of a warrior as any of the men she confronts in the wasteland.

Finally I loved the brain of the film. An impulse we all face in life is to attempt to solve our problems by running away from them. Many science fiction films are about this. Two recent examples are Snowpiercer and Interstellar. They both dramatize the idea that we can solve mankind's problems by escaping from the old world and building a new one someplace else. At first Fury Road appears to be taking this same direction until it undercuts that idea by having the characters turn back and fight for control of the citadel. I think the idea that we have to stay where we are and fight for and improve what we have, instead of wandering off in search of an unblemished utopia, is a mature and thoughtful approach to life and politics. That Goerge Miller was able to make this point and tie it into the arcs of his main characters in a car chase movie is amazing to me.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#85 Post by movielocke » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:49 am

Those are some good points, I'm glad you took away so much from the film. Why do you think these desert people had so little regard for or need for water? So much so they could apparently carry an individual's 162 day supply of water (and fuel) on a single motorcycle. The cavalier treatment of water was probably my biggest beef with the films world building as it seemed like no one really cared in the film, which is very unusual for a desert culture.

I'm also curious how the tanker, presumably empty since we see numerous people crawl out of the front opening of the tank cylinder and because it was making a run to fill up with fuel, held all those supplies. And if the little cute orb at the back of the truck was carrying fuel so essential to the trucks operations that they had to crawl out and reconnect the feeder tube why was furiousa planning on disconnecting the orb and leaving it as payment? If it impeded her truck performance to not have the pod it makes no sense she planned to trade it for safe passage. Additionally, I find it puzzling that the logistics of hauling around excess mass are never addressed, they have a lot of speed issues relative to the other vehicles, but never attempt to lighten the load, not even when they make a return trip and they should be making such calculations to maximize their chance of success.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#86 Post by captveg » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:22 am

The tanker is filled with water. It just also has a hidden compartment in the front (more of a small passage, really). Also, there's a lot of plot concerning the lack of water throughout the film.

They do lighten the truck's load when they are stuck in the quagmire. This extra weight would make little difference outside of this situation, though. No matter how much weight they shed a semi is not gonna outrun muscle cars.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#87 Post by who is bobby dylan » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:50 am

Why do you think these desert people had so little regard for or need for water?
The only scene where people show little regard for water is the bathing scene after the dust storm. The wives and Furiosa are clearly privileged members of the Citadel and would have gotten used to having easy access to an abundance of water. They're also carrying a large amount of water in the truck and are headed towards a place which Furiosa believes has an abundance of water.
So much so they could apparently carry an individual's 162 day supply of water (and fuel) on a single motorcycle.
I agree that the 162 days line makes no sense. For me the issue is fuel not water. As the bikes couldn't carry enough fuel to drive anywhere near that long and if they could they would have circled the globe a few times.
I'm also curious how the tanker, presumably empty since we see numerous people crawl out of the front opening of the tank cylinder and because it was making a run to fill up with fuel, held all those supplies.
The tanker is full of milk and water. There's a passage way under the tanker, like a ventilation shaft that people crawl through. Think Die Hard.
And if the little cute orb at the back of the truck was carrying fuel so essential to the trucks operations that they had to crawl out and reconnect the feeder tube why was Furiosa planning on disconnecting the orb and leaving it as payment?
The truck doesn't slow down because it looses the orb as fuel source. It slows down because disconnecting the wires, stops the orbs wheels from spinning, so they're just dragging it. When it's reconnected the wheels begin spinning again.

I hear what you're saying. The events in Mad Max: Fury Road are not depicted as they would literally have to happen in real life to work. Of course Fury Road is not attempting to be a documentary, but a political allegory.

To use another movie as an example. The space ships in Star Wars couldn't actually fly. Lightsabers couldn't really work. The same for blasters. It would be hugely cost prohibitive for any group on one planet to trade anything with any group on another planet, so why is there a trade federation? How could planets full of diverse competing governments ever agree on sending one elected representative to a space government, etc? The fantastical elements of Mad Max: Fury Road aren't real. It's just meant to seem real enough to setup the adventures that the characters have. I enjoyed the adventure and the allegory, so I overlooked some details (like the 162 days) that didn't make sense to me.

I agree though that it would be fun to see a post apocalyptic movie or TV series that was literally just about actual survival: water, food, disease, etc. and how much thought and time would have to go into those things before you could even begin to worry about fighting other people, zombies, etc.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#88 Post by movielocke » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:40 pm

Yes, I think considering the film, my problems are fundamentally with the weaknesses of the sub genre of post apocalypse more than anything, the failure of logistics (and supply chains), infrastructure, survival details and a poor understanding of network effects are typical of the genre.

One thing I did enjoy is how the fuel leader bad guy is necessarily subservient to the water leader bad guy ( main character), since water (and fresh food dependent on water) is a necessity and also because fuel manufacture and resource extraction are extremely water intensive/dependent. In a water scarce environment, that's very interesting. The fuel leader knows he has some leverage but is ultimately subservient. And it is nice that the armaments leader bad guy has no leverage and no say with either of the above, because there's an absolute abundance, apparently, of metal and explosives to manufacture his wares, so the scarcity is primarily on the production side and no one seems to suffer from scarcity of armaments since they run low but not out of armaments.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#89 Post by aox » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:13 pm

Not trying to defend the villain (Joe), but are we given any indication that he is cruelly withholding water from the people down below? Perhaps he is wisely rationing it?

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#90 Post by captveg » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:19 pm

He's certainly using it as a means of controlling the population, and it's presented as one of his propaganda tools.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#91 Post by sinemadelisikiz » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:32 pm

If he were wisely rationing it, I don't think he would deliver the water in such a wasteful fashion. Like 80% of that is now in the ground. [-(

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#92 Post by movielocke » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:21 pm

sinemadelisikiz wrote:If he were wisely rationing it, I don't think he would deliver the water in such a wasteful fashion. Like 80% of that is now in the ground. [-(
It's probably rationed out and the throng camped neath his citadel have to buy their water rations, thus, you could explain the periodic deluges as sort of like throwing money in the air. It's rare, FREE water, probably not the daily delivery system, thus, 80 % going to evaporation and ground absortion means the deluge doesn't hurt his bottom line and explains why there isn't organized crime black market capture of the resource or disorganized large scale rioting involved in trying to access the deluge. If it were regular water distribution, both would happen and neither are seen.

Or it could just be an extremely dumb comic book visual that wasn't thought through.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#93 Post by captveg » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:19 am

It's just not a film that is THAT focused on the purity of logic for such things. Why do lightsabers not extend infinitely since they are made of light energy? Because the aesthetic outweighs the logic.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#94 Post by movielocke » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:54 am

captveg wrote:It's just not a film that is THAT focused on the purity of logic for such things. Why do lightsabers not extend infinitely since they are made of light energy? Because the aesthetic outweighs the logic.
because the blade is actually a loop, is what I always heard?

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#95 Post by Altair » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:56 am

movielocke wrote:
captveg wrote:It's just not a film that is THAT focused on the purity of logic for such things. Why do lightsabers not extend infinitely since they are made of light energy? Because the aesthetic outweighs the logic.
because the blade is actually a loop, is what I always heard?
So that would mean light would have to bend?

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#96 Post by who is bobby dylan » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:11 pm

Or it could just be an extremely dumb comic book visual that wasn't thought through.
Or it could be that it is a work of fiction interested in telling a story about characters and not a UN report on conditions in a refugee camp. As such, the scene works to establish the relationships between the characters in the story. Those inside and outside of the Citadel. Those at the top and and at the bottom of society and the way those at the top (Immortan Joe) wield power over those at the bottom. As such, while Joe doesn't just let these people die outright, we can more than safely assume that he's not a benevolent dictator wisely rationing water. He's making a public display of his control over the most powerful resource in his society that serves as a piece of theater, establishing his power and myth both to those at the bottom of the Citadel and to those inside.

But, you're right as a scene about the day to day distribution of water necessary to provide a subsistence level of existence for those outside the Citadel the scene is a failure. Likewise Roger Federer is a failure as a basketball player.

If I want to get into the details of governments and water distribution, I can read a newspaper article about the crisis in Flint, Michigan.

I came to Mad Max: Fury Road to see what the explosions were about and was surprised to find out they were in service of a political allegory that argues that our humanity is found through engaging in common cause with each other to improve the little bit of Earth that we already have. In a country that, "treats the Earth as both an infinite resource and an infinite garbage bag" I found it a timely message and appreciated how the message was conveyed through the characters and story.
Last edited by who is bobby dylan on Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#97 Post by captveg » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:31 pm

Altair wrote:
movielocke wrote:
captveg wrote:It's just not a film that is THAT focused on the purity of logic for such things. Why do lightsabers not extend infinitely since they are made of light energy? Because the aesthetic outweighs the logic.
because the blade is actually a loop, is what I always heard?
So that would mean light would have to bend?
Eventually

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#98 Post by movielocke » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:23 pm

Altair wrote:
movielocke wrote:
captveg wrote:It's just not a film that is THAT focused on the purity of logic for such things. Why do lightsabers not extend infinitely since they are made of light energy? Because the aesthetic outweighs the logic.
because the blade is actually a loop, is what I always heard?
So that would mean light would have to bend?
I'm not a Wikipedia article, I read a couple of the Zahn books in the 90s and have some friends who argued about this stuff constantly. If I recall correctly the blade is plasma, not light, and the plasma is controlled in some whatever device fashion. I'm sure someone on the Internet has explained it in some exhaustive fashion if any of us care enough. Lucas never did he just wanted something that looked cool, like Miller.

Btw, I agree Dylan, that the deluge is a demonstration of control over a precious resource meant to assert power, you're the one who was touting the film not explaining things as a feature, I was just explaining how I thought one of the poor world building aspects, the deluge as water delivery, could be rationalized into acceptable world building. Again, I like the film and enjoyed it, I just don't think it is great.

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#99 Post by zedz » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:58 pm

who is bobby dylan wrote:
Or it could just be an extremely dumb comic book visual that wasn't thought through.
Or it could be that it is a work of fiction interested in telling a story about characters and not a UN report on conditions in a refugee camp. As such, the scene works to establish the relationships between the characters in the story. Those inside and outside of the Citadel. Those at the top and and at the bottom of society and the way those at the top (Immortan Joe) wield power over those at the bottom. As such, while Joe doesn't just let these people die outright, we can more than safely assume that he's not a benevolent dictator wisely rationing water. He's making a public display of his control over the most powerful resource in his society that serves as a piece of theater, establishing his power and myth both to those at the bottom of the Citadel and to those inside.
I vote for "dumb comic book visual", particularly as the characters you're talking about are 1D or 2D comic book characters. But it's a comic book film, so what do you expect? If your frame of reference is Star Wars and its ilk, maybe you could mistake this for a film with an interesting political or feminist subtext. If you're at all familiar with actual political or feminist works, it's just a big, dumb action film, done well. Isn't that enough of a rarity to celebrate?

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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)

#100 Post by who is bobby dylan » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:19 pm

I vote for "dumb comic book visual", particularly as the characters you're talking about are 1D or 2D comic book characters. But it's a comic book film, so what do you expect? If your frame of reference is Star Wars and its ilk, maybe you could mistake this for a film with an interesting political or feminist subtext. If you're at all familiar with actual political or feminist works, it's just a big, dumb action film, done well. Isn't that enough of a rarity to celebrate?
I'm not sure what "comic book" visual means other than a put down. You think the visual is dumb. That's fine. I think differently. You think the characters lack dimension. I think Max, Nux and Furiosa are all three dimensional characters. They have clear motivations, show a range of emotion and are all changed through their interaction with each other.

It seems like a large part of your put down is premised on Star Wars being my frame of reference. I used Star Wars as an example because it's well known. I'm not sure what you would consider interesting political or feminist films, but one of my favorite films is Robert Kramer's Route One/USA. I've also spent my entire adult life working for labor reform organizations, before that I spent years engaging in student/community activism. Without going into my whole life story is that good enough to entitle me to find the political subtext of Mad Max: Fury Road interesting on the emotional level of story and character that the film is trading in?

Not claiming that Mad Max: Fury Road is the greatest film ever or that it says everything there is to say about politics or feminism, just that the aims and achievement and recognition accorded the film make it special.

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