Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2018)

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MoonlitKnight
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#26 Post by MoonlitKnight » Wed May 24, 2017 8:30 am

I've always regarded Moore as more of an 'op-ed' filmmaker than a documentarian. And I feel he's one of the few prominent figures who's advocated moving the country at least somewhat back to the Left as it's increasingly moved to the Right over the last 30+ years. That said, I could force myself to see his last feature, "Trumpland." Sorry, but Hillary Clinton was the epitome of the Establishment that sucks from the same corporate teat as the Republicans, and, thus, would not have been that much of a significant improvement over Trump.

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tenia
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#27 Post by tenia » Wed May 24, 2017 8:39 am

MoonlitKnight wrote:would not have been that much of a significant improvement over Trump.
I highly doubt this.
And I mean, the current discussions around Trump should be enough to support this doubt.

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#28 Post by DarkImbecile » Wed May 24, 2017 9:33 am

I don't like McDonald's cheeseburgers, but I can differentiate between one of those and a shit sandwich.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#29 Post by hearthesilence » Wed May 24, 2017 11:12 am

That's a ridiculous statement to make in light of what he's done and trying to do to the environment, civil rights, education, the LGBT community, the poor and those needing healthcare. I can't imagine anyone rightfully believing it wouldn't make a difference to them unless they're shielded from all of these policy changes.

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tenia
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#30 Post by tenia » Wed May 24, 2017 11:52 am

Or it's just another Internet hyperbole.

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domino harvey
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#31 Post by domino harvey » Wed May 24, 2017 12:10 pm

Plenty of that to go around already in this thread

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who is bobby dylan
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#32 Post by who is bobby dylan » Wed May 24, 2017 12:50 pm

MoonlitKnight wrote:I've always regarded Moore as more of an 'op-ed' filmmaker than a documentarian. And I feel he's one of the few prominent figures who's advocated moving the country at least somewhat back to the Left as it's increasingly moved to the Right over the last 30+ years. That said, I could force myself to see his last feature, "Trumpland." Sorry, but Hillary Clinton was the epitome of the Establishment that sucks from the same corporate teat as the Republicans, and, thus, would not have been that much of a significant improvement over Trump.
The general movement to the right started closer to fifty years ago, not thirty. During the same time many specific things like rights for women, African Americans, and LGBTQ etc. have improved (i.e.) moved to the left. So the picture is more complicated than you paint. Also, from a Leftist perspective, Clinton would clearly be a significant improvement over Trump. To list just three examples. She would have moved the median vote on the Supreme Court to the left for the first time in decades, she would be expanding the number of people who have access to healthcare (not actively trying to decrease it, while also making that healthcare worse) and she would be expanding the social safety net through paid medical leave and childcare, not cutting government programs, to pay for tax cuts that add trillions to the debt, that will make it harder to create new programs in the future. One doesn't have to like Clinton personally to be willing to admit these things.

As for Moore. I think his films suffer from the fact that he's basically a person who sees the injustice clearly and assumes that because the injustice is clear the analysis/solution must be clear as well. He doesn't have a good understanding of US politics and/or history (based on my familiarity with his films and political actions) so his films, while impassioned with genuine outrage and urgency are intellectually very scattershot, the last film of his I saw, Capitalism: A Love Story suffered greatly from this. Unlike a genuine expert he doesn't appear to know much more about his subjects than his audience and so his films feel like someone cobbling together half remembered facts, hoping it all adds up to something, rather than someone laying out a cohesive, detailed case.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#33 Post by hearthesilence » Wed May 24, 2017 1:38 pm

Losing the Supreme Court pick alone is enormous - replacing Scalia with a far less conservative justice would have made an enormous shift in the Supreme Court, and that is not hyperbole.

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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#34 Post by calculus entrophy » Wed May 24, 2017 1:50 pm

who is bobby dylan wrote:
MoonlitKnight wrote:As for Moore. I think his films suffer from the fact that he's basically a person who sees the injustice clearly and assumes that because the injustice is clear the analysis/solution must be clear as well. He doesn't have a good understanding of US politics and/or history (based on my familiarity with his films and political actions) so his films, while impassioned with genuine outrage and urgency are intellectually very scattershot, the last film of his I saw, Capitalism: A Love Story suffered greatly from this. Unlike a genuine expert he doesn't appear to know much more about his subjects than his audience and so his films feel like someone cobbling together half remembered facts, hoping it all adds up to something, rather than someone laying out a cohesive, detailed case.
That's based on the assumption that he is a film maker. However, he is just more of a political activist that would use any medium to serve his message. He is aware that it is one perspective, he is also aware that the information is not new.

Moore is exercising his personal voice in the most powerful way he can, to shout about issues he is passionate about, he is not creating documentary for balanced, historical canon. It's more close to a sophisticated, elaborate form of tagging/skywriting/op-ed/political marketing savvy than traditional film. That's why the criticism doesn't hit the target.

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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#35 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed May 24, 2017 1:54 pm

I realize the line is blurred because of the work that Moore does, but reminder that we have a politics thread and if you want to discuss the 2016 election and the Supreme Court and how good or bad Hillary Clinton is/was, that's still the place to do it if it isn't within the context of this film.

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knives
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#36 Post by knives » Wed May 24, 2017 7:10 pm

calculus entrophy wrote:
who is bobby dylan wrote:
MoonlitKnight wrote:As for Moore. I think his films suffer from the fact that he's basically a person who sees the injustice clearly and assumes that because the injustice is clear the analysis/solution must be clear as well. He doesn't have a good understanding of US politics and/or history (based on my familiarity with his films and political actions) so his films, while impassioned with genuine outrage and urgency are intellectually very scattershot, the last film of his I saw, Capitalism: A Love Story suffered greatly from this. Unlike a genuine expert he doesn't appear to know much more about his subjects than his audience and so his films feel like someone cobbling together half remembered facts, hoping it all adds up to something, rather than someone laying out a cohesive, detailed case.
That's based on the assumption that he is a film maker. However, he is just more of a political activist that would use any medium to serve his message. He is aware that it is one perspective, he is also aware that the information is not new.

Moore is exercising his personal voice in the most powerful way he can, to shout about issues he is passionate about, he is not creating documentary for balanced, historical canon. It's more close to a sophisticated, elaborate form of tagging/skywriting/op-ed/political marketing savvy than traditional film. That's why the criticism doesn't hit the target.
Well that's just silly, and not just because he has made a fictional film. He makes films this he is a film maker whether you like it or not. You can be a political activist and a filmmaker. They are not exclusive terms especially when they are tied so close together. That's like saying Updike isn't a novelist.

calculus entrophy
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#37 Post by calculus entrophy » Thu May 25, 2017 12:05 am

knives wrote:Well that's just silly, and not just because he has made a fictional film. He makes films this he is a film maker whether you like it or not. You can be a political activist and a filmmaker. They are not exclusive terms especially when they are tied so close together. That's like saying Updike isn't a novelist.
I'm not hearing anything other than a pedantic rebuttal, which I, too find "silly". The straw man you outlined of this vs that, is not what I said.

I get that a film is being made, but if you don't understand that his objective first and foremost is to communicate his bias, and repeat commonly available information, then to criticize him for doing this is not to understand his purpose. I was responding to those that posted those comments, and would rather let my original response stand than argue this further.

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domino harvey
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#38 Post by domino harvey » Thu May 25, 2017 12:09 am

We'll open this thread when the film is shown and people can talk about it and not whatever the hell is happening here

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Re: Trailers for Upcoming Films

#39 Post by Apperson » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:32 pm


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mfunk9786
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2017)

#40 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:07 pm

Wellp, Drumpf is finished now

Also, guys, this is unlocked ad infinitum. If we can have a Death of a Nation thread going we damn well can have a Fahrenheit 11/9 thread going. Don't be a jerk and this will go just fine.

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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2018)

#41 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:31 am

Image

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Big Ben
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2018)

#42 Post by Big Ben » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:37 am

I mean what more can he say that we don't already know?

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Altair
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2018)

#43 Post by Altair » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:41 am

Pretty sure the interns were in charge of the office when they were putting that poster together.


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McCrutchy
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2018)

#45 Post by McCrutchy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:13 pm

Well, that's just terrible. I was looking forward to seeing Fahrenheit 11/9, but if these accusations of Moore not paying his bills and stiffing a fine company like Boston Light and Sound (who were instrumental in bringing the 70mm roadshow of The Hateful Eight to many theaters outside of the big cities, including my local AMC, where I was able to see it three times) are true, then I'll be happy to not see it or any more of his movies until he settles his debts. Usually this isn't something I would really care about, but Moore's "man of the people" persona makes it extra shitty.

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The Elegant Dandy Fop
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2018)

#46 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:35 am

Through my own film exhibition needs, I've dealt with Boston Light and Magic for simple things such as loops for focusing and calibrating aspect ratios on projectors. Not only are they diligent, but have incredible customer service even for small orders of $100. I have nothing but nice things to say about them. What a shame he'd complain about one of the best in a field in a world where projection is getting sloppier and messier.

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furbicide
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Re: Fahrenheit 11/9 (Michael Moore, 2018)

#47 Post by furbicide » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:37 am

McCrutchy wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:13 pm
Well, that's just terrible.
I thought you were talking about the trailer there for a moment, in which case I would have heartily agreed with you. What's the point of this documentary? Moore's no Adam Curtis (or even moderately talented columnist) in terms of narrative or analysis, the subject has been done to death every single day in this exhausting 24/7 media landscape, and he's unlikely to have landed any earth-shattering interviews, so all that's left to look forward to here is the stunts – which is what, hosing a small section of the Michigan governor's driveway!?! Really high-stakes stuff there, Mike.

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