Suicide Squad / Birds of Prey Films (Ayer/Yan/Gunn, 2016-2021)

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#201 Post by zedz » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:54 pm

captveg wrote:I simply will never understand why you would spend the time beyond an initial evaluation. I mean I literally do not comprehend why people use their limited time on this Earth to discuss in detail for long periods of time the things they didn't enjoy.
Well, it seems like neither of you liked the film, and yet here we are. Is this thread as it's (d)evolved really a good use of anybody's time?

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captveg
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#202 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:55 pm

zedz wrote:
captveg wrote:I simply will never understand why you would spend the time beyond an initial evaluation. I mean I literally do not comprehend why people use their limited time on this Earth to discuss in detail for long periods of time the things they didn't enjoy.
Well, it seems like neither of you liked the film, and yet here we are. Is this thread as it's (d)evolved really a good use of anybody's time?
Nope.

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dx23
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#203 Post by dx23 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:57 pm

captveg wrote: Well, I'm reluctant to take the time to dive in deep on this forum because experience says if I'm the lone voice here for something I don't get taken seriously (at least it feels that way to me). So I've found it not worth the time to gather my thoughts in great detail here, especially in a thread about another film. My views are out there in other forums; I can try to dig them up and link to them/repost them in the MoS thread if you're truly interested.
As long as your thoughts are well written and defend your point, I don't think anyone here will blast you for it. This is a film discussion forum and there has been lone voices in the past and people respect that. I'm being sincere in wanting to see your thoughts on both Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman since you saw something I didn't.
No. I simply will never understand why you would spend the time beyond an initial evaluation. I mean I literally do not comprehend why people use their limited time on this Earth to discuss in detail for long periods of time the things they didn't enjoy.
When is something I'm passionate about and the final product isn't good, I like discussing about it and see where it could have been fixed or talk about the potential it had. I do this with sports, comic book, business ventures, etc. To me it serves almost as case studies and teaching lessons.

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captveg
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#204 Post by captveg » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:59 pm

I think I covered my thoughts on BvS in that thread fairly well. If there's a specific follow-up to anything I said there let me know.

(If I don't respond quickly it's because the Universe of No Man's Sky beckons within an hour).

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mfunk9786
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#205 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:32 pm

Guys, guys! You're all God's children, He loves you equally.

Wait, what are we talking about?

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barryconvex
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#206 Post by barryconvex » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:42 am

When is something I'm passionate about and the final product isn't good, I like discussing about it and see where it could have been fixed or talk about the potential it had. I do this with sports, comic book, business ventures, etc. To me it serves almost as case studies and teaching lessons.
I'm completely neutral here as i haven't seen the movie but i think what you wrote above is a totally valid point...

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tenia
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#207 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:08 am

I think discussing things you don't like can be as enlightning as discussings things you like. And in places like here, you might find people disagreeing with you, so the exchange is likely to be even more interesting (providing everybody remains civilized, etc).

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movielocke
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#208 Post by movielocke » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:24 pm

Suicide Squad was fine, it wasn't great, it was reasonably entertaining, and while it was remarkably stupid in that it was over-telegraphed or underexplained (actually quite an achievement) for most of the run time, I didn't mind too much.

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jbeall
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#209 Post by jbeall » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:27 pm

I pretty much agree with movielocke's assessment. It was a fine way to spend two air-conditioned hours on a hot summer afternoon. However, the move from "don't-forget-we're-all-bad-bad-guys" to "we're all family!" was formulaic but completely undeserved, especially considering they'd been around each other for less than 24 hours.

I thought Viola Davis was especially good playing a probably the biggest badass in the film, albeit one who's playing a very dangerous game considering she doesn't have any superpowers. (The teaser during the credits played nicely on that.) Margot Robbie and Will Smith are also quite good, though I didn't care for Jared Leto's Joker, and the fact that they needed to keep that "Damaged" tattoo across his forehead rendered the character silly every second he was on the screen. (Seriously, does anybody not know the Joker's "damaged"???)

Maybe it's that I watched BvS last night, thus going into Suicide Squad with significantly lowered expectations, but I was pleasantly surprised. That said, pretty much anything placed next to the turd that is BvS will smell like a rose by comparison.

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feihong
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#210 Post by feihong » Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:21 pm

I finally got to see this movie, and...it was so drab. The previews looked like a hot mess, but one that promised to at least be flashy and razzle-dazzling; but the film we have instead is low-key, overlong and critically underdeveloped. What it looked like more than anything is a 5-hour, doggedly-plotted story, full of anectodes-within-the-story and drawn-out character beats, which was then condensed as awkwardly as possible into a 2-hour movie, which in turn left you feeling as if you'd spent 3 or more hours watching events that seem as if they would play out over about 60 minutes of real-time drama. It felt more than a bit like a sugar-free Escape from New York, where the idea of forcing bad guys to do good things gets no thematic development whatsoever. This is a deeply cynical concept, and everyone from The Secret Invasion and The Dirty Dozen onwards who has relied upon this dramatic schema has milked the irony in the setup for all it was worth––what would these unsavory characters do, when asked to do good? Would they fall in line? What would make them do so? Every film made in this mold understands that these questions are the key to the drama––the very thing that makes the internal engine of this story work. But the makers of Suicide Squad hardly even acknowledge these issues, and instead go about trying to renovate these "worst of the worst" villains into likable people.

Why, though? Why even try to make them so appealing? The minute we start feeling like Deadshot is an honorable dude he really has to step down as one of the "worst of the worst." Captain Boomerang never seems like the worst of anything. Katana is even a straight-up good guy. Harley Quinn dances around the idea of character motivation in an absolute blur. Her motivation bounces like a pinball from scene to scene––in one scene virtuous, another, lovelorn; a third, psychotic. Nothing in this film really explains what she's about, or why she's there. Is she one of the "worst of the worst" because she lashes out at her prison guards? Because I think a lot of prisoners have done that. We never really get the impression that Harley Quinn is any kind of "dangerous" psychotic. She only shoots mutated monsters and steals a purse from a display window. Batman's violent, vindictive incarcerations of these characters make him look like a sadistic d-bag. But this is a movie edging far towards the PG-13, kid-friendly idea of "good" and "evil." The Suicide Squad were all blanket "bad" people, because...because they've killed people? Hasn't Batman killed a bunch of people before? And we know Superman has. But once these incarcerated killers are recruited to do "good" work, they immediately become "good guys," deserving of our sympathy and our interest. The Dirty Dozen works because it identifies shades of grey within the society the dozen has been cast from. There are people more evil than the dozen, not only on the other side of the war, but high up within the ranks of the dozen's own army. Snake Plisken is a tough, mean pragmatist, but the people he's working for are more cynical and sadistic than he will ever be. We never feel that relative sense of evaluation in Suicide Squad––though there is constant, meaningless banter about who is "bad" and who is "good."

One of the wonkiest problems with the film is that the main adversary is just another member of the Suicide Squad. This is not really a spoiler; it happens within the first 15 or 20 minutes of the picture. I did enjoy the way the Enchantress' visuals were imagined, just like I liked some of the Joker/Harley Quinn cutaways for their visual components (I wish more movies would get a little lusty and overheated with their visuals––I wish this movie would have––but the colors swimming around the Joker and Harley Quinn in the chemical vats is really fun––couldn't they have done more of that?). But motivation for any of the onscreen action is in short supply, and the narrative beats where they establish threats and stakes have all been cut from the final edit. I thought the Enchantress' bubbling goons were pretty interesting. A horror movie might have made something of how weird and frightening their transformation had been. Could their bubbling ooze have been infectious? Do they still have emotions? Can they see or smell or hear? But we have no answers to any of these questions. Instead these mystically-bound henchmen remain just grimy goons––explosive, icky canon-fodder to keep the picture from having an R-rating. It seemed odd that the trained soldiers with heavy weapons had such a hard time fighting these creatures, when Harley Quinn could take them out with only her baseball bat and her diminutive physique.

On a side note, I don't know if my age is catching up to me, but I found myself cringing at the gloating sexualization of Harley Quinn. The Bond movies never used to bother me in this respect––they seemed so tongue-in-cheek, even in regards to their chauvinist sexuality. But Suicide Squad's pauses to underline Harley's buttocks and her twitchy walk felt like they ought to have been punctuated with a little ringing bell and a handsome, middle-aged man as host floating up in front of the screen, gesticulating mutely, grinning and pantomiming the particular titillation we should be getting from the shot in question. I mean, her costume is her costume...I guess...but...it felt ponderous and humiliating, and the sexualization of the character was underlined so plainly that its purposelessness swung plainly into view. Harley beats up a bunch of thugs and then...ass shot! 'Cus kicking ass is sexy, right? This never seems to be a sexualized presentation that Harley has any control over, either––she just performs when ogled.

Just what has happened to the movies, that everyone thinks these dramas are just fine without establishing character, stakes, etc.? BvS and this movie are incredibly ham-fisted at establishing clear stakes and motivations, but the Marvel movies are pretty light in these regards as well. It seems as if Suicide Squad probably had a lot of these details of character, setting and situation, presented as full scenes in some much longer edit, but I think the script needed a lot of renovation in order to pack the relevant details into what would obviously have to become a more reasonable ultimate running time. This is a movie that smells rushed and ends up looking flaccid. It's grimness is as tacked-on as a cheap halloween mask––all superficial scariness, with no internal logic to back it up. It's missing all of the connective elements that used to be marks of good cinema storytelling, but it expects you to buy into emotional buildup without any of that connective material. It's a movie packed with jokes that aren't funny, characters that aren't developed, situations where the stakes aren't clear. It doesn't seem like a terrible film or a disaster so much as a movie that isn't complete––but it doesn't glow with promise like, say, the Blade Runner theatrical cut. You get the feeling that a finished Suicide Squad, even with a few more editing passes, wouldn't have worked or satisfied. It seems to me that no one involved on the film really committed to the dark idea which their premise suggested.


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domino harvey
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#212 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:22 pm

An unexpected but potentially inspired choice

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Ribs
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#213 Post by Ribs » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:23 pm

It doesn't really dovetail with a notion they're taking into consideration the feedback about how the film treats women though

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captveg
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#214 Post by captveg » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:25 pm

I'm more concerned with who's writing it.

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dx23
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#215 Post by dx23 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:20 pm


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captveg
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#216 Post by captveg » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:34 pm

SS makes sense because at the core it's a crime story. Remove Diablo and pit them against a human villain and there's no supernatural elements at hand.

Also, it should be noted that Gibson's quote re: BvS suggests he probably never actually saw the film.

That all being said, just because they've approached him doesn't mean he'll actually do it. The other names on the short list - in particularly Ruben Fleischer - seem more likely/realistic from that perspective.

I could see Gibson agreeing to do it in order to lead to financial backing for one of his other projects he's been trying to get made, such as the Maccabees movie, which WB previously shelved.
Last edited by captveg on Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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knives
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#217 Post by knives » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:50 pm

All the more reason to hope he doesn't get the job.

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domino harvey
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Re: Suicide Squad (David Ayer, 2016)

#218 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:55 pm

captveg wrote:That all being said, just because they've approached him doesn't mean he'll actually do it. The other names on the short list - in particularly Ruben Fleischer - seem more like realistic from that perspective.
Only if he brought back this crew as the heavies

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#219 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:01 pm

The latest unlikely director for a superhero project: Cathy Yan, whose sole feature to date is the Jia Zhangke-produced black comedy Dead Pigs, is being tapped to direct Birds of Prey.

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Never Cursed
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#220 Post by Never Cursed » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:18 pm


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domino harvey
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Suicide Squad / Birds of Prey Franchise (2016-)

#221 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:47 am

In "I can't believe this is a real title" news, Margot Robbie is back in Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) (no really, that's the title)

EDIT: Holy shit, Chris Messina with blonde hair

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Big Ben
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#222 Post by Big Ben » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:56 am

They're chasing that Dr. Strangelove heat! Seriously though perhaps being free from David Ayer will make this film better. The original Suicide Squad is so poorly made that it contains Ed Wood level buffoonery. A character leaves in a huff at one point and then just shows up at the final confrontation without any context given as to why he's back and no one says anything about it. It's wild y'all.

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domino harvey
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#223 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:59 am

I mean, this looks like a music video for a total banger, so if it keeps that neon vibe I may be interested in seeing To Harley Quinn, Thanks For Everything! Julie Newmar

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swo17
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#224 Post by swo17 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:01 am

Big Ben wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:56 am
They're chasing that Dr. Strangelove heat!
More like
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captveg
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Re: DC Comics on Film

#225 Post by captveg » Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:45 pm

I figured it was more obviously a play on Birdman's full title.

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