Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

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Mr Sausage
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1501 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue May 29, 2018 5:42 pm

There's also the story of Tarkovsky's trip to America, where the film he was most excited to see was the violent grindhouse film The Exterminator.

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The Narrator Returns
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1502 Post by The Narrator Returns » Tue May 29, 2018 5:44 pm

I hope Keleg was similarly outraged when Stanley Kubrick got to make Eyes Wide Shut because one of his favorite movies was White Men Can't Jump.

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domino harvey
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1503 Post by domino harvey » Tue May 29, 2018 5:46 pm

It's a shame Kubrick wasn't allowed to film his original ending, with Nicole Kidman working through her marital discord by going on Jeopardy

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Shrew
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1504 Post by Shrew » Tue May 29, 2018 5:49 pm

Or Terence Malick really loving Zoolander.

Anyway, given that Annie Hall is the go-to example of experimental filmmaking, and "non-traditional" storytelling means male characters fail (I never knew Arthurian legend, Greek tragedy, and Shakespeare were all so non-traditional), we're either being trolled or in the presence of a true believer.

Keleg
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1505 Post by Keleg » Tue May 29, 2018 5:56 pm

The Narrator Returns wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:44 pm
I hope Keleg was similarly outraged when Stanley Kubrick
Well now that you mention Kubrick, I mean, 2001 didnt make it's money back for ten years and yet he was given any and all money he wanted to make movies. He was even able to get a film pulled out of theaters after a week.
I use it as an example to show that despite the claims that studios only care about profit, they will make decisions that have nothing to do with profit.
Allen is just the most notable example of a director who gets money when he wants, has never needed to raise funding ever, doesn't even need to market himself at the Oscars etc.

But Johnson's mention of Annie Hall just reminded me of the interview with the director of Jesus of Montreal saying Jaws was the most perfect movie he had seen or the Transformers writers saying their dream was to make films in the style of Waiting for Godot.
It sounded like pretentious remarks, but in the case of Johnson and Orci and Kurtzman I suspect they were sincere.

Keleg
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1506 Post by Keleg » Tue May 29, 2018 6:12 pm

Shrew wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:49 pm


Anyway, given that Annie Hall is the go-to example of experimental filmmaking, and "non-traditional" storytelling means male characters fail (I never knew Arthurian legend, Greek tragedy, and Shakespeare were all so non-traditional),
The difference between "male failure" in Greek tragedy or Shakespeare or works like Frankenstein and Moby Dick is that there is usually a lesson or redemption element (i.e. Ishmail lives to tell the tale and Walton heeds the story of Frankenstein and Horatio carries on after Hamlet) but with a lot of studio film from say the 50s onward, that redemption/lesson isn't always there or rarely appears.
Beneath the Planet of the Apes ends with the world exploding.

But it is a case by case situation.
So Luke succeeds in Star Wars with the help of magic and a shot from a friend, and Shia Labeuf succeeds in the Transformers despite lacking the physical prowess of an athlete. He singlehandedly jumps on the evil robot and defeats it.

Actually Shia's character in Transformers is something like a Woody Allen protagonist so maybe Johnson's declared affection for one of his films makes a lot of sense for the future of populist genre narratives.

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MichaelB
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1507 Post by MichaelB » Tue May 29, 2018 6:13 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:There's also the story of Tarkovsky's trip to America, where the film he was most excited to see was the violent grindhouse film The Exterminator.
It was a trip to London, and his desire to see the film had nothing to do with him being a closet James Glickenhaus fan - he just wanted to see the most controversial film currently playing out of curiosity as to what would be considered “controversial” in the West. (Did he ever cross the Atlantic at all?)

Bernardo Bertolucci, on the other hand, really was an absolutely rabid and unashamed fan of Speed.

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domino harvey
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1508 Post by domino harvey » Tue May 29, 2018 6:18 pm

Just searched Keleg's post history and discovered his only other posts were in the thread for Rituals. Sorry but he's clearly only qualified to speak about horror movies and not Star Wars, please disregard all of his other posts

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Brian C
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1509 Post by Brian C » Tue May 29, 2018 6:29 pm

Something tells me he won’t be happy when he finds the Jordan Peterson thread.

Keleg
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1510 Post by Keleg » Tue May 29, 2018 6:36 pm

Haha yes I forgot about this forum until I remembered the Rituals discussion from way back and wanted to check for responses.

I just saw the SW discussion so left my opinion before I vanished for another year. I wasn't expecting to get into a debate about Annie Hall which is not a film I have any fondness for (yes I have seen it but as romantic comedies go I prefer Sons of the Desert).
I should have checked around the forum more closely-seems to be much more into avant garde but maybe there is some affection for Mario Bava or Umberto Lenzi in the ranks.



Anyhoo to bring it back to Lucas for closure (at least from me since talking about Star Wars and modern Disney is not very appealing), as someone pointed out, his background was experimental and quite different from serial adventure he became famous for--but then, who said he was a wonderful genre director? I have never met anyone who thought he was. The prequels confirmed it.
I do think Lucas has a quirky imagination and his stewardship of film tech was important, but as a filmmaker, not a fan.
Even Indiana Jones, which was said to be a creation of him and Spielberg, is just a copy of Harry Steele from Secret of the Incas, but with a sexual misconduct issue and a whip added.

Anyway that's my two cents.

Enjoy your next viewing of Shadows and Fog everyone. ;)

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1511 Post by DarkImbecile » Tue May 29, 2018 6:37 pm

Keleg wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:56 pm
I use it as an example to show that despite the claims that studios only care about profit, they will make decisions that have nothing to do with profit.
Any convincing evidence you can present for this will be the first such evidence uncovered in the history of studio filmmaking.

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knives
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1512 Post by knives » Tue May 29, 2018 7:38 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:13 pm
Mr Sausage wrote:There's also the story of Tarkovsky's trip to America, where the film he was most excited to see was the violent grindhouse film The Exterminator.
It was a trip to London, and his desire to see the film had nothing to do with him being a closet James Glickenhaus fan - he just wanted to see the most controversial film currently playing out of curiosity as to what would be considered “controversial” in the West. (Did he ever cross the Atlantic at all?)
Quite famously where he saw a bunch of Brakhage films and responded oddly.
As to this silly conversation, really all you need to do is point out that Lucas was just off of American Graffiti, a far weirder departure than anything Johnson has made, and has stated as one of his favorite films A Clockwork Orange and in general has expressed a preference to, "small, experimental works."

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Luke M
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1513 Post by Luke M » Tue May 29, 2018 10:08 pm

I saw Solo tonight. I think my biggest problem was so much of it was built around nods to the other movies. Every other movie has been fairly subtle, or at least moreso, about references but this was just one after the other of stuff. Also, I don’t understand the focus of the dice when it was never of any significance in the original trilogy.

Donald Glover’s Billy Dee Williams impression is something to behold. Everything else can be skipped.

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bunuelian
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1514 Post by bunuelian » Wed May 30, 2018 11:55 am

A few years back I worked in the same complex as the Lucas headquarters in the Presidio. They allowed everyone in the complex to use their (very nice) cafeteria for lunches. The whole place was decorated with Lucas's personal collection of vintage film posters, many of which I imagine are astonishingly valuable (for example, an original, large format L'Avventura poster, and an original Japanese Rashomon). I liked to think that these posters reflected Lucas's depth of film knowledge and appreciation, even though the work coming out of the place was far from the mark. At the time a lot of the Lucas crew was wearing Crystal Skull gear everywhere they went.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1515 Post by Zot! » Wed May 30, 2018 12:09 pm

cdnchris wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 5:40 pm
If the only movie he liked was Annie Hall I would say you kinda make sense (though it still doesn't mean he doesnt understand the genre), but I'm pretty sure he is also incredibly fond of other films, genre and sci-fi included (as his Looper would allude to) so i'm not really sure what your point is exactly.

Also, randomly, there is an interview with Ingmar Bergman on the Persona release (I think it's there anyways) where Bergman states he would rather watch a Bond movie over something like his work, yet he kept making what he did.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ente ... 90487.html
He even had a Blues Brothers T-shirt.
I think one of the excerpts from this doc had Nicolas Refn inventing some kind juvenile Bergman on Faro masturbation scenario whence he came upon Caligula among the tapes.

Also remember Tarkovsky being a big Terminator fan...had not heard previously about Exterminator.

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reaky
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1516 Post by reaky » Wed May 30, 2018 12:49 pm

Robert Bresson was crazy about For Your Eyes Only.

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solaris72
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1517 Post by solaris72 » Wed May 30, 2018 2:19 pm

Zot! wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 12:09 pm
Also remember Tarkovsky being a big Terminator fan...had not heard previously about Exterminator.
Exterminator is true, it's mentioned in his diaries. He also mentions seeing Lucio Fulci's Zombi 2 while in Italy ("Ghastly, repulsive trash") and an anime film while in Japan (also Ozu's Autumn Afternoon which he says he found very boring).

What's rather interesting and ambiguous is Tarkovsky's view of Star Wars...in Sculpting in Time he's very dismissive, calling it and Superman movies that have nothing to do with art, and throughout his writings he expresses no interest whatsoever in films like that, (in his Sight & Sound top 10 list he calls Seven Samurai the only adventure film with any real artistic value) however his son attests to the man's enjoyment of Star Wars:
I always asked him what kind of movies he was watching. I envied him for having seen Star Wars, for instance. I asked him how the film was and he would tell me the whole story, including every little detail. He basically allowed me to see the film in my imagination.

So Andrey Tarkovsky loved Star Wars?

Of course! He then showed me Akira Kurosawa’s The Hidden Fortress, which is, as we all know, the blueprint of Star Wars. In any case, the film we both fully agreed upon was Kurosawa’s Seven Samurai.
I suspect on some level there was a combination of political pressure and artistic pride that led him to avoid discussing what he enjoyed in western popular cinema. (I recall a similar revelation regarding Bresson, who claimed not to go to the movies but allegedly was a very regular and ritualistic moviegoer) Tarkovsky had nothing good to say about 2001 yet was evidently interested enough that he read the novel afterwards and was furious to find the Soviet censors had removed the ending. (This is also in his published diaries.)

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AidanKing
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1518 Post by AidanKing » Thu May 31, 2018 1:00 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:13 pm
It was a trip to London, and his desire to see the film had nothing to do with him being a closet James Glickenhaus fan - he just wanted to see the most controversial film currently playing out of curiosity as to what would be considered “controversial” in the West. (Did he ever cross the Atlantic at all?)
Tarkovsky attended the 1983 Telluride festival, which is where the meeting with Brakhage took place. Apparently, Richard Widmark was a bit annoyed.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1519 Post by bearcuborg » Thu May 31, 2018 5:09 pm

Shrew wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:51 pm
I enjoyed Solo more than I expected, that it is to say, more than Rogue One. Both films show the seams of their Frankenstein construction, but Solo hangs together better.
Pretty spot on. I liked it more than Rogue One, but that’s not saying much. Of all the new things Force Awakens has felt most like Star Wars, and Jedi been the most thought provoking. These side stories feel very minor league.
SpoilerShow
Having never seen more than a few minutes of Thrones, Clarke isn’t really on my radar-but compared to the other female characters who are killed off, she’s the least interesting.

It was funny to see Han shoot first, and I’m not even one of those guys... I could have done without the racial stereotype description of Lando, but he and Aldon have chemistry. There was definitely a better movie to be made based on their time together.

The cameo at the end doesn’t work, even though I knew this character was around-at least superficially from listening to podcasts like Rebel Force Radio.
They’ll figure this franchise out eventually. Clint has a funny cameo, and I always wanna see more Warrick Davis. Also, Erin Kellyman with the freckles was stunning!

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1520 Post by denti alligator » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:56 am

I must be alone here in thinking Rogue One is by far the best of the recent films. Solo only makes it look even better, in my opinion.

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tenia
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1521 Post by tenia » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:00 am

denti alligator wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:56 am
I must be alone here in thinking Rogue One is by far the best of the recent films. Solo only makes it look even better, in my opinion.
You're not. I haven't seen Solo yet, but I'm among those who thinks Rogue One is at least pretty much decent but mostly held back by its awfully tedious first half. I'd rate The Force Awakens above it though, because the pace and overall entertainment felt better, but I don't think Rogue One deserves the dislike it received in some places. And since I found The Last Jedi absolutely awful, this mechanically places Rogue One higher in the recent entries than in other people's lists.

This being written, my enthusiasm for Solo progressively got down from "not much" to "about zero" and it will most certainly be the first SW I could have seen on theaters but won't. I'm 31 so clearly couldn't have seen "day one" the OT in theaters, but except The Clone Wars movie (which I never saw at all), it was kind of a tradition for me (with my family or my friends) to see a SW movie Day One on theater. I saw TLJ a few days later than usual already (but that was mostly because the dubbed version had the better time slots so I had to wait a few days to catch a good showing time), but with Solo, I might just wait for the video release altogether, and the feedbacks I'm reading on various discussion boards only further convice me that there isn't enough to appreciate in it anyway.

It's a shame, really.


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Big Ben
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1523 Post by Big Ben » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:00 am

Totally normal fanbase.

It's remarkable to me that anyone would harass another human being for simply being in a movie. Daisy Ridley did the exact same thing to her Instagram account apparently.

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Murdoch
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1524 Post by Murdoch » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:33 am

I can't blame her. The most die-hard Star Wars fans are some of the most obnoxious people around.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1525 Post by MongooseCmr » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:58 am

I’ve been increasingly tired of the lasers and stormtroopers and deafening space engines in each new film, but the last two movies have really hammered home how fucking boring the rebellion stuff is. I never thought it was that important in the previous series, more a backdrop than a narrative, and every new scene meant to swell my heart over the rebellion instead makes me want to walk out of the theater.
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I would have clapped when L3 died if someone else started it. JarJar was never that obnoxious.
I loved the weird force mysticism in TLJ and find all the scummy underbelly stuff in Solo endearing, but they’ve got to find a new story to tell beyond Rebels vs Empire. It’s more tedious than making every film related to the old ones. Why was it even shoehorned into Solo to start?

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