Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

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tenia
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1551 Post by tenia » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:09 pm

All shot in close up so you can't see what's what.
However, I myself more and more dislike the whole jumpy-CGI Yoda fighting a quite passive Dooku in Ep II.

(as a whole, there's probably a rundown on the Web somewhere, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the 8 main SW movies have more clunky lightsabers fights than good ones)

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1552 Post by knives » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:14 pm

Given the series has really only had three good directors and one of those specialized in very un-Star Wars films that's not too surprising.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1553 Post by Mr Sausage » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:18 pm

I don’t like any of the breezy, twirling duels of the prequels, Darth Maul fight aside. It’s like when a ballet or gymnastics/circus show does a big fight scene, where it’s all graceful misses and leaping into effortless breakfalls and no one’s seriously trying to persuade you it’s a violent physical fight where people are getting hurt.

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Luke M
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1554 Post by Luke M » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:19 am

’Star Wars’ Spinoff Films on Obi-Wan and Boba Fett Put on Hold Following Bad ‘Solo’ Box Office — Report

I kinda like the idea of Disney killing Star Wars because of their vile, rabid fan base.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1555 Post by Big Ben » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:26 am

They're taking time off to most likely fine tune scripts and so forth so they don't repeat Solo's box office performance. This has to do with money not fans. Disney/Lucasfilm would release footage of an amorous baboon in a Jedi outfit if they knew they could get away with it.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1556 Post by colinr0380 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:58 pm


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Luke M
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1557 Post by Luke M » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:07 pm

I applaud Lucas for coming up with an original story and I do think there were some interesting ideas in the prequels, but that idea is bad.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1558 Post by black&huge » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Midichlorians still sounds like an STD

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1559 Post by colinr0380 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:10 pm

"I'm afraid Young Padawan that I may have passed on a bad case of midichlorians. You may want to get tested if you do not want to end up like Jar-Jar"

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1560 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:42 pm

The amount of pure hatred "fans" of this series have for the first two installments of the new trilogy makes me gladder than ever I was never one of them. These two films are better than everything else to ever appear under the banner combined, and looking at the objections and feverish, borderline incel-level rants of the detractors, I'm confident I'm on the right side!

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1561 Post by swo17 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:07 pm

Mini-Luke Skywalker in Osmosis Jones 2 WOULD HAVE STAYED TRUE TO WHO HE WAS

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Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1562 Post by movielocke » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:48 pm

What is fascinating about the implications also makes me believe it was never the original plan, it was his plan for the prequels and sequels.

Because this idea doesn’t grow naturally out of the first three films or any of their source material. Rather if we look at the implications of such a reversal we see it is a bitter and probably justified attack on the nature of secondary world fandom, it is meant to disabuse the audience of their fandom.

because in-story it is literally telling characters it’s all a delusion, they’ve been lied to, nothing is special, you’ve just been elaborately manipulated to believe in made up hocus pocus (you don’t actually control) by people profiting in your belief in specialness. You’re not even in control of your own will or consciousness, those are illusions as well. That level of disenchantment would be pretty shattering to most fans because it is systematically destroying the belief structures they’ve erected.

It actually fits in with a lot of student work and thx in terms of the cynicism. But I don’t think it is the original idea, rather it was his idea to be rid of Star Wars definitively and the people who liked it.

However it is a terrible idea because unless you are embedding “disenchantment of the world” themes into your story from the beginning, simply slapping a disenchantment on at the end never actually works out well, it just spawns scorn and backlash. Imagine the outrage if Rowling had decided that harry “won” by destroying all magic, and thus since Voldemort was magical he died too. Well that’s a good idea if the story has been building to that idea, but the story had been developing in world solutions to dealing with the primary antagonist, so it that suddenly happened it would be a big out of nowhere betrayal of the audience.

Tolkien in the other hand, implies from the beginning (talking about how it’s the last days of the third age etc) that this is a story of how all magic left the world (in a sense Frodo is destroying magic in destroying he one ring). Lewis shoe horns it in with the last two books being about the beginning and ending of his world, but narnia ends with an eschaton, not a disenchantment. Pullman on the other hand, builds his series towards disenchantment from the first pages, so the ending of magic is a naturally developing outcome.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1563 Post by RIP Film » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:47 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:42 pm
The amount of pure hatred "fans" of this series have for the first two installments of the new trilogy makes me gladder than ever I was never one of them. These two films are better than everything else to ever appear under the banner combined, and looking at the objections and feverish, borderline incel-level rants of the detractors, I'm confident I'm on the right side!
Sorry, what do these new films do so well? I’m not a star wars “fan” but I do think the original story was brilliant in the vein of an old fashion swashbuckler with the wisdom of Joseph Campbell running throughout. The movie that kicked off the new trilogy came off like embarrassing fan fiction, reliving the old set pieces while trying to up the stakes at every opportunity and falling flat. Then the sequel has Luke trying to murder his nephew who he thinks might be a bad apple, despite wanting to save the most irredeemable person in the galaxy a few decades ago. How is anyone supposed to make sense of this? What is the motivation of Kylo Ren? Thank goodness Adam Driver is such a good actor. Then there is Daisy Ridley’s character who is the only light in this dim story arc, but who is up to now till now basically a cipher for rekindling nostalghic characters and events, and after two movies is still a mystery. Oh yeah, and the newest one ends with a kid moving a broom. A broom.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1564 Post by McCrutchy » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:01 pm

RIP Film wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:47 pm
Oh yeah, and the newest one ends with a kid moving a broom. A broom.
HE is the Grand High WITCH!

Image

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R0lf
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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1565 Post by R0lf » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:19 pm

Damn, now we definitely need a "like" button on this forum.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1566 Post by MoonlitKnight » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:45 pm

RIP Film wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:47 pm
What is the motivation of Kylo Ren?
To turn to the Dark Side purely to spite his family, of course. What else would any sensible youth do -- especially in light of all the thorough exposition we've gotten regarding unseen events that apparently happened between Episodes VI and VII? :|

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1567 Post by black&huge » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:58 pm

MoonlitKnight wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:45 pm
RIP Film wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:47 pm
What is the motivation of Kylo Ren?
To turn to the Dark Side purely to spite his family, of course. What else would any sensible youth do -- especially in light of all the thorough exposition we've gotten regarding unseen events that apparently happened between Episodes VI and VII? :|
Also it's not like Vader had deep motives. Barring the PT he was someone who got persuaded to join the dark side because of some guy who was more powerful than him.

Then we got the PT and people questioned whether an entire trilogy mapping out an iconic villain's journey to said dark side was believable because things like Jar Jar, Trade disputes and clone troopers were apparently more important to scrutinize.

So why are people wanting hard answers to Ren's motivations? Oh that's right, bombs falling in space, hyperspace kamikazes, purple hair and an asian female not being the weeb wetdream "hot asian" are the actual problems here*

* just to clarify I don't think it's hard to figure out all the manchildren trolling on the character of Rose and the actress playing her are doing it for the absolute superficial reasons. Whether it be expectations of only "hot asian women" should be portrayed or just flat out mom's basement racism because they can't stand looking at Asian faces for whatever reason.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1568 Post by Big Ben » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:23 pm

I thought it was made pretty clear that Kylo was being manipulated by outside forces (Snoke) and that in Luke's panic about that (Trying to kill him because he feared the rise of the Dark Side again.) he brought out the Dark side in a more complete manner because Kylo needed to defend himself which is why he fled to The First Order/Snoke. That was was the driving force behind Luke cutting himself off from the force and becoming a hermit. Luke's moment of weakness is responsible for a lot of what is going on in the new trilogy. Kylo was driven by fear ( It's established that this is one of those things that drives people to the dark side in the original trilogy!) and became corrupted by Snoke.

While certainly not Shakespearean (What in Star Wars is?) surely no one will debate this is less nuanced than Jar Jar Binks?

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1569 Post by R0lf » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:50 pm

(The movies go out of their way to then double up and consolidate those Kylo themes with Fin who was also brainwashed as a kid to serve The First Order but when his opportunity arises goes on to make better decisions.)

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1570 Post by RIP Film » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:34 am

Big Ben wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:23 pm
I thought it was made pretty clear that Kylo was being manipulated by outside forces (Snoke) and that in Luke's panic about that (Trying to kill him because he feared the rise of the Dark Side again.) he brought out the Dark side in a more complete manner because Kylo needed to defend himself which is why he fled to The First Order/Snoke. That was was the driving force behind Luke cutting himself off from the force and becoming a hermit. Luke's moment of weakness is responsible for a lot of what is going on in the new trilogy. Kylo was driven by fear ( It's established that this is one of those things that drives people to the dark side in the original trilogy!) and became corrupted by.
That’s a good synopsis, but I tend to feel like people are making excuses for the screenwriters when it’s their job to fill in the gaps. Sure it makes sense in outline form, but I found myself continually questioning why Kylo has a hard on for being evil, and why Luke wanted to kill him. So much is missing in the timeline of events that it’s hard to get a grip on these characters. Vader didn’t really need such motivations, he was an archetypal vision of evil, but even then he never wished the death of his family— he tried to save his family and couldn’t, which is what led him to take a cynical authoritarian view that naturally aligns with ‘the dark side’. Oh, but Kylo was manipulated by Snoke, a character that has like 3 lines in the whole new trilogy? This is the problem, again and again the screenwriters rely on viewer familiarity to fill in the holes without taking the time to flesh out these characters. At the end of Empire Strikes Back, there was a great amount of tension, Luke discovered who is father is, Han is frozen, etc. At the end of Last Jedi my only question is: well, is Kylo going to stop being a dick?

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1571 Post by DarkImbecile » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:38 am

RIP Film wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:34 am
Vader didn’t really need such motivations, he was an archetypal vision of evil, but even then he never wished the death of his family— he tried to save his family and couldn’t, which is what led him to take a cynical authoritarian view that naturally aligns with ‘the dark side’.
There is absolutely nothing in the original movies that would give a viewer this shading on that character; the double standards people apply to these films never ceases to amaze me.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1572 Post by RIP Film » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:02 am

DarkImbecile wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:38 am
There is absolutely nothing in the original movies that would give a viewer this shading on that character; the double standards people apply to these films never ceases to amaze me.
He didn’t need it, as I said he was an archetypal image of evil. But Anakin did need such shading in the prequels. These are basically two different characters, their role in each trilogy is dramatically different.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1573 Post by Big Ben » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:06 am

It's to my understanding that Snoke's identity may be elaborated on in future media. I'll concede that that leaves the real formation of The First Order a mystery but I'm unsure if it needs any more explanation than the Empire did in the original six films? It's just an organization of Space Fascists and knowing just a tiny bit more about that really isn't going to change my opinion of them. It's also possible these stories have been elaborated on in the books they've been releasing and I'm simply missing more info. But I really, really don't think Snoke and the First Order are meant to be anything other than Space Fascists. Speaking on Kylo I really don't doubt he'll be redeemed. But whether or not we'll get a Kurosawa style ending where he sacrifices himself or a Milquetoast Hollywood Ending of "Lol you killed a bunch of people but in the end you saved us all but you're redeemed" remains to be seen.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1574 Post by What A Disgrace » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:22 pm

I would hope Kylo Ren's redemption will be more nuanced than either of those, myself. I suspect it will at least attempt it - I cannot conceive of either option being implemented according to the films we've seen so far. But that might just be my wishful thinking.

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Re: Star Wars Franchise (1977-∞)

#1575 Post by aox » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:56 pm

Big Ben wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:06 am
It's to my understanding that Snoke's identity may be elaborated on in future media. I'll concede that that leaves the real formation of The First Order a mystery but I'm unsure if it needs any more explanation than the Empire did in the original six films? It's just an organization of Space Fascists and knowing just a tiny bit more about that really isn't going to change my opinion of them.
Maybe they are trying to make space great again.

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