Borat: Cultural Learnings of America (Larry Charles, 2006)

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Steven H
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#76 Post by Steven H » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:49 pm

Barmy wrote:I fucking hate Ali G but liked Borat a bunch. However, the scenes that appeared to be scripted (e.g. the NY subway scene and the Jewish bed and breakfast) tended to fall flat. Definitely a film to see ASAP with a packed, rabid audience (esp. if they show the Apocalypto trailer, so y'all can boo it).
Do mean scripted as in Borat is scripted (improv style comedy, preplanned), or completely staged? I think the only staged sequences were the Pamela Anderson and Bear/kids bits. According to this he was almost arrested in NY. And, according to this, there are a number of scenes that are still mysteries as to whether they're "real" or not, and the bed and breakfast bit is among them. Spoiler:I thought them throwing the money on the cockroaches was hilarious, so that scene didn't fall entirely flat for me, but most of it was pretty apparently just to balance the jew-hating by showing him to be ridiculously prejudiced. Funny stuff.

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Barmy
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#77 Post by Barmy » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:02 pm

Kasman's piece articulates it better than I can.

My issue was with bits that appeared staged, but were being passed off as unstaged. (The scripted Kazakhstan stuff, for example, was fine.) I just found myself spending too much time thinking about what was and wasn't "real", and that in turn affected what I thought was funny. For example, I thought the Southern dinner was "real", but had I sensed it was fake I would not have found it as funny. The NY subway seemed totally fake (I live in NYC) and for me was not that funny. Whether the NY subway really was "real" is not the issue, it still appeared fake.

I still had a blast.

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Andre Jurieu
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#78 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:39 pm

Anyone think that the ho that Borat brought to the Southern dinner party looks familiar?

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jon
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#79 Post by jon » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:38 pm

Andre Jurieu wrote:Anyone think that the ho that Borat brought to the Southern dinner party looks familiar?
No, not at all. But yes, she was one of the tourist characters in The Rock.

Good catch, Andre.

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cdnchris
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#80 Post by cdnchris » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:40 am

Went to a super early show for this one on the weekend figuring I could miss the crowd. The theater ended up being packed, but this was actually a movie worth seeing with the audience.

Very funny stuff. I couldn't tell for sure what was staged and what wasn't (except for the "plot" sequences, and the opening) I have ideas, but actually don't feel like giving it away for myself. The Anderson scene was obviously staged but I still found it very funny. But I have to admit that for me, the funniest moment was probably the crudest: The nude wrestling. The black bar was an especially nice touch.

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jon
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#81 Post by jon » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:18 am

the nude wrestling was hilarious, but do you think the second part was staged?

what were the numbers for this weekend

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Andre Jurieu
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#82 Post by Andre Jurieu » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:36 am

jon wrote:
Andre Jurieu wrote:Anyone think that the ho that Borat brought to the Southern dinner party looks familiar?
No, not at all. But yes, she was one of the tourist characters in The Rock.
Anyone know why she's listed as an "Actor" and "Actress?"

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jon
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#83 Post by jon » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:50 pm

Andre Jurieu wrote:Anyone know why she's listed as an "Actor" and "Actress?"
hermaphrodite?

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davebert
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#84 Post by davebert » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:46 am

Actoress!

(Great film, by the way. The escalating rhetoric at the rodeo was a particularly nice touch.)

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Antoine Doinel
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#85 Post by Antoine Doinel » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:08 am

Saw this tonight and it was goddamn hilarious. And who really cares what was staged or scripted and what wasn't? It actually doesn't really matter and the parts that were scripted were pretty obvious. Did I laugh? Yes. A lot. And hard. That's what the movie set out to do and it did it and then some. I found Sacha Baron Cohen's fearlessness to be the most impressive thing about the movie. And as he is a Jewish man, the B&B scene was beautifully "scripted" in that he thankfully didn't accost the old couple but still (as someone else said) managed to show his character's prejudice. Also, Cohen must've been blown his own mind with the church sequence.

But even funnier will be the eventual DVD which will presumably show all the interviews uncut.

Cinesimilitude
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#86 Post by Cinesimilitude » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:12 am

Andre Jurieu wrote:
jon wrote:
Andre Jurieu wrote:Anyone think that the ho that Borat brought to the Southern dinner party looks familiar?
No, not at all. But yes, she was one of the tourist characters in The Rock.
Anyone know why she's listed as an "Actor" and "Actress?"
I intended to simply quote the woman's gun quote in the rock, and then was suddenly surprised to see it as the subject.

I saw Borat tonight, and I can't believe it got a 14A (our PG-13 rating) in Canada. It was a riot.

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Mr Sausage
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#87 Post by Mr Sausage » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:14 am

SncDthMnky wrote:I saw Borat tonight, and I can't believe it got a 14A (our PG-13 rating) in Canada
Stranger movies have been given that rating. I'm thinking of Hannibal and Saving Private Ryan.

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Cold Bishop
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#88 Post by Cold Bishop » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:19 am

Saw it and loved it. Maybe not the piece of satirical genius I was hoping for, but I'm not gonna knock it just because it isn't the greatest thing I've ever seen.

However, can Bruno match it?

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MichaelB
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#89 Post by MichaelB » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:44 am

I've just found out that the woman who was supposed to accompany my wife and myself to Borat last Sunday went to see it with her husband a few days later...

...and walked out.

(At the gunshop scene, if I remember rightly)

So it's probably just as well that last weekend's plans fell through!

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Gordon
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#90 Post by Gordon » Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:44 am

Saw it on thursday night. Hilarious and painful. "We not take an aeroplane in case the Jews repeat their terror attack of 9/11," came out of nowhere and had me roaring.

Plaque: "Uzbekistan Embassy"...

Borat: "FUCK YOU, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS!!!"

The scene where he learns to be black and then tries to check into a swanky hotel is outrageous.

Genuine chocolate-face Republican Alan Keyes is asked what the social meaning of having a rubber fist rammed up your arse is. Thank dog I was talked out of drinking juice during the film.

It's barely picaresque, very random, but hilarious. I am certainly not going to enter debates regarding the racist nature of the film or character, as it simply isn't, but one thing I will say is: How can a film that shows a photo of a penis receive a 15-certificate in the UK? Bizaarre. There were 14/15 year-olds sitting my right and they seemed utterly clueless as to the character's subversive nature and proceeded to throw popcorn at some girls in front of them. Par for the course and I was too busy wheezing to chastise them and couldn't give a fuck anyway.

I'm off to run the Jew. Crush his egg!

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MichaelB
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#91 Post by MichaelB » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:20 am

Gordon wrote:I am certainly not going to enter debates regarding the racist nature of the film or character, as it simply isn't, but one thing I will say is: How can a film that shows a photo of a penis receive a 15-certificate in the UK?
I hate to break it to you, but A Room With A View got a PG, and there's rather more male genitalia on display there!

One of the great cultural myths of the past few decades is that the BBFC are prudes when it comes to nudity - but the facts suggest otherwise. Non-sexualised nudity is generally considered acceptable for any age classification, provided there isn't too much of it at the U and PG end of the scale - and there's certainly nothing in Borat on the male nudity front that comes anywhere close to pushing the boundaries of the 15 certificate.

Had the penis in question been erect, it might have been a different matter, but it wasn't. And even then, it depends on context - the BFI's imminent Quay Brothers DVD only got a 12 certificate, despite at least a modicum of graphic sexual imagery (particularly this one - WARNING: MAY NOT BE WORK SAFE - in The Phantom Museum), which was presumably considered acceptable because it was in the context of a series of museum exhibits.

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The Invunche
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#92 Post by The Invunche » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:54 am

MichaelB wrote:Had the penis in question been erect, it might have been a different matter...
Yeah, it's the angle of the dangle that determines the classification.

Commander Shears
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#93 Post by Commander Shears » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:01 pm

I have to admit, I get a perverse kick out of seeing this thread's title. Has any movie shown the silliness of this site's director fetish as much as this one? Why not just call it Larry Charles' "Borat"?

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MichaelB
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#94 Post by MichaelB » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:16 pm

Commander Shears wrote:I have to admit, I get a perverse kick out of seeing this thread's title. Has any movie shown the silliness of this site's director fetish as much as this one? Why not just call it Larry Charles' "Borat"?
I know exactly what you mean - the cinema I used to write programme notes for had a strictly auteurist policy, even when it came to Marx Brothers seasons.

And while I'm more than happy to accept that Leo McCarey deserves a fair amount of credit for Duck Soup and that Norman Z. McLeod and Sam Wood weren't entirely useless on Monkey Business, Horse Feathers, A Night at the Opera and A Day at the Races, absolutely no-one has managed to prove to my satisfaction that Robert Florey (The Cocoanuts) and Victor Heerman (Animal Crackers) did very much more than point cameras (and pretty static cameras at that) at what were already successful stage hits that could more than look after themselves.

There's very little doubt who the real auteur of Borat is, and his initials are SBC, not LC.

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exte
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#95 Post by exte » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:47 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Commander Shears wrote:I have to admit, I get a perverse kick out of seeing this thread's title. Has any movie shown the silliness of this site's director fetish as much as this one? Why not just call it Larry Charles' "Borat"?
There's very little doubt who the real auteur of Borat is, and his initials are SBC, not LC.
You know, I completely missed it, but I totally agree. I think the title of this thread should be changed, as well.

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MichaelB
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#96 Post by MichaelB » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:00 am

What's even sillier is that Larry Charles didn't even direct all of the film - how much of it was already in the can when Todd Phillips walked? (Certainly the rodeo scenes at the very least, and they're amongst the film's most memorable moments).

Not that I'm in any way trying to do Mr Charles down - he clearly made some contribution - but in cases like this I think the notion of director as sole auteur is both meaningless and actively misleading.

It also shows up the different biases applied to film and TV criticism, because if Larry Charles is the auteur of the big-screen Borat, then surely the directors of the assorted TV versions should deserve similar acclaim? And can you name any of them without cheating? I certainly can't!

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Zumpano
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#97 Post by Zumpano » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:35 pm

While Charles is not the auteur behind Borat, he had to have contributed something to the film. Right? Why have a "director" if it wasn't necessary? I don't disagree; I think that Cohen is the main creative force and author of this film, but I don't think Charles' role should be minimized. While his film resume is a little lacking, Charles has been a key creative talent with two of the best modern TV comedies "Seinfeld" and "Curb Your Enthusiasm".

I would love to read/see the behind-the-scenes/making-of "Borat" to learn how a lot of this trickery was accomplished, etc. But I feel that this is something we are going to either learn via the lawsuits forumlating currently, or later on down the road in a tell-all or something. I think an "Everything-Exposed" DVD Edition isn't going to happen because Cohen wouldn't/shouldn't give away his methods. Especially not with a "Bruno" movie in development at Universal.

After seeing the film, does anyone else think that Todd Phillips is a bit of a wimp for backing out/taking his name off this film? I remember when this guy made G.G. Allin and Frat House documentaries...

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The Invunche
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#98 Post by The Invunche » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:37 pm

I don't know if this was posted before.

Humiliated frat boys sue over 'Borat' portrayal

I thought humiliation was part of being in a fraternity.

Commander Shears
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#99 Post by Commander Shears » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:12 am

We certainly need to put someone's name in those parentheses. Otherwise, how will we be able to distinguish this film from all of this year's other releases called Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan? Imagine the confusion.
Last edited by Commander Shears on Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Antoine Doinel
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#100 Post by Antoine Doinel » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:22 am

Zumpano wrote:After seeing the film, does anyone else think that Todd Phillips is a bit of a wimp for backing out/taking his name off this film? I remember when this guy made G.G. Allin and Frat House documentaries...
That's assuming that you know why he walked, which actually neither Sacha Baron Cohen or Todd Phillips have gone into details about.

From the NY Times review of the film:
“Boratâ€

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