Kevin Smith

[cdnchris]

We have a Boondock Saints thread? I'll have to remember to delete that.

[domino harvey]

Kevin Smith's Mallrats sequel is called... Mallbrats

[lacritfan]

Could've been worse, coulda been Mallpossums.

...sorry...

[criterion10]

Could've been worse, coulda been Mallpossums.

[mfunk9786]

Don't we have a no Entourage memes rule here?

Anyway, they're filming this at the Granite Run Mall which is my childhood/teenage years mall (note: because why would anyone go to a mall after that, I still live here though) because it closed recently and is scheduled for demolition (apparently the demolition is going to be part of the movie or something). This all seems like it will destroy any lingering nostalgia I ever had for anything, which is just as well

[spine#]

I really don't get the Kevin Smith hate. I understand that some of his movies are a little too self-indulgent, some even crappy (Jersey Girl, Cop Out -- both of which he readily apologizes for), but giving us Clerks, Mallrats, Dogma, and even Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back should be more than enough to cement him as an entertaining, maybe even important filmmaker. What's more, he seems to have really found himself in recent years, after a substantial period of misses and half-hearted attempts at retiring. Tusk is an extremely flawed but enjoyable little film that shows he's growing, while still keeping his trademark dialogue that, frankly, makes him who he is.

I'm excited for Mallbrats. It's his first sequel since becoming more down to earth than ever (based on his podcast), and I'm hoping that means something both old and new.

[mfunk9786]

Taste is subjective, but most of that older work does not hold up well in the least as time has gone on, and there's a reason now why Smith is not in the conversation with his early-90s contemporaries (Tarantino, Linklater, Baumbach, and so on) any longer. From my perspective he's a filmmaker who decided at a certain point that he had enough of an adoring fanbase and an insular universe (merchandising, message boards, and so on) that he didn't need to put the effort into making better or more interesting work, or having a more complex viewpoint himself. He still largely seems like the same personality he was 20 years ago, and while that surely appeals to the sort of people who're still collecting VHS tapes and ordering Pizza Hut every night, it's not really comparable to the sorts of leaps that the filmmakers who blew by him as those 20 years have gone on have made. The idea of trying to recapture former glory days with ridiculously titled sequels (that, who knows, might even wind up being DTV or something) seems very sad.

Also: Coming onto this forum and posting about "not getting all the Kevin Smith hate" makes you a huge cliche. Good or bad, just know that. This is not the first time that someone's made this post and won't be the last.

[Raymond Marble]

I used to be a big Kevin Smith fan in the 90s--I saw him speak live on at least three occasions, I met him once (he was very kind), I loved his movies. That said, and while I maintain a soft spot for Clerks and Chasing Amy, I agree that his movies aren't aging well.

Going further, I would go so far as to say that I something close to hate Kevin Smith these days. What talent he may have once had has long been sapped away--Cop Out was an appallingly bad film (I've never disliked Bruce Willis more) and I would honestly posit that Tusk was not only the single worst film theatrically released in 2014, but likely the worst one of the past five or so years. Meanwhile, you'd think Smith owned stock in Twitter for as much as he's talked about it in recent years, his podcast schtick was never funny, and he's so eye-crossingly self-satisfied these days. For evidence, listen to how pleased he is with himself in the clip of his stupid podcast that plays over the credits of Tusk, where he's spitballing ideas for the movie. It's so tactless as to be repulsive.

[cdnchris]

I still have a soft spot for Clerks and Chasing Amy but the rest of his stuff: yikes! Mallrats is especially painful, so if there's a film that I really hoped there would never be a sequel for, it's that one. I guess with Clerks there was this sort of "I'm going to make a movie, dammit, because I love movies, and fuck my limitations" appeal to it that still charms me (and there are still some genuinely funny moments), and Chasing Amy, despite some disagreements with the storyline, is at least personal enough that it works for me. Plus, it so represents a time period that I think it shouldn't be completely forgotten (honestly, I can't think of many other movies more "90's" than that one). But yes, I guess the issue I have with him now is he hasn't grown. Granted, I haven't seen Tusk or Red State, so maybe he's changed, but I pretty much gave up after 20-minutes of Cop Out because it was obvious he wasn't growing.

[spine#]

Also: Coming onto this forum and posting about "not getting all the Kevin Smith hate" makes you a huge cliche. Good or bad, just know that. This is not the first time that someone's made this post and won't be the last.

Um, sorry, I guess? I don't really know what that means, but I've also not gone through the archives. Do you just mean that a lot of people in general say that, or that there are newbies who come, say that, and leave? Not sure if I should take this as hostile or not.

Anyway, I just think that it's OK for a filmmaker to be of his time. Smith has always represented a sort of '90s slacker aesthetic, and sure those other filmmakers definitely passed him by, but I don't personally have a problem with that. He's no master of cinema, and I wouldn't even rank him in my top 30 filmmakers, but appealing to a very specific demographic hardly seems like a reason to demonize a man. He (with a couple previously mentioned examples) makes what he wants to make, and I find that highly commendable. To me, being a filmmaker is about crafting the sort of of film you want to see. He does that. No need for snobbery or reinventing the wheel.

As for Tusk... I guess I'll have to just agree to disagree with potentially everyone on the board. I'm sure I'll come off as a Smith-worshipping acne farm for it, but I thought it was a thoroughly enjoyable little B movie. I also happen to enjoy his podcast when I catch it (similarly to his films, I don't follow it religiously, but I do enjoy it when I happen to listen).

[mfunk9786]

Red State felt like a sort of exciting young filmmaker's shaky first attempt - sort of like some of the movies coming out of that whole mumblecore horror movement. While I haven't seen Tusk yet, it sounds like a lot of the good will generated by Red State was immediately squandered, and I can't say I'm surprised - that's sort of been Smith's thing (following Clerks with Mallrats, following Chasing Amy and Dogma with Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, and so on).

All that said, I've met him too (back in high school) and he's very, very nice and generous with his time and everything else you might hope that someone like Smith is. I don't harbor any ill will or anything. He's just not a very good writer or filmmaker and he's been out of interesting ideas for a long time.

spine#, check your PMs if you want to discuss my comment further.

[copen]

people seem to think, maybe correctly, that smith is just coasting without really trying anymore, but
it's very possible that he's just not capable of making a good/great film.
the only film of his that i like is zach and miri, not because of all the crazy stuff that goes on, but because of the relationship between the two people in the title. maybe with a different lead actress, even this relationship wouldn't have been brought across very well by the director.
chasing amy doesn't really hold up through the years for me.

[thirtyframesasecond]

I remember watching J&SBSB in the cinema and it was one of the most boring film experiences of my life. I'd have considered myself something of a "fan" (well I liked Clerks, Chasing Amy and Dogma but hated Mallrats). It was so bad that I've watched nothing by him since, not that it looks like I've missed anything.

[Numero Trois]

I understand that some of his movies are a little too self-indulgent, some even crappy (Jersey Girl, Cop Out -- both of which he readily apologizes for), but giving us Clerks, Mallrats, Dogma, and even Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back should be more than enough to cement him as an entertaining, maybe even important filmmaker.

Depends on one's standards. The last one I saw of his was Zack and Miri Make a Porno. Judging by that one his visual senses have progressed minimally if at all from the time of his debut. I get that he's not exactly an aesthete. But could I have at least something that indicates he's a worthwhile filmmaker and not merely an enthusiastic fanboy? Mostly we get a lot of verbally dense scenes jumbled together with no shape or sense of rhythm whatsover. The only other film I've seen of his is Clerks, way back when. Not inclined to look further.