Kevin Smith

[knives]

He's never really evidenced himself to be smart unless of average intelligence and used to have good reasoning skills count as being smart now.

[Andre Jurieu]

Yeah, I guess I'm more inclined to side with knives on this one. I've yet to really see any clear indication that Smith possesses an above-average intelligence (granted that the "average" seems much lower nowadays, but I'm guessing most of our reasonable forum-members share some basic concept of what "average" should be). He's fairly industrious and often engaging, but he also seems to be content in having a limited scope of interests, without displaying much desire to expand the depth or extent of his knowledge. That's also not to say that I don't like his movies - in fact, I've enjoyed and own copies of a few - but I'm also not going to be comparing his efforts with stuff made by Renoir, Tarkovsky, or Kubrick. That probably makes me sound like as snobbish asshole, but I really don't believe that Smith attempts anything further than entertainment. That's not a terrible goal, but he also doesn't really achieve it with the same level of skill as other filmmakers.

[domino harvey]

Agreed, his whole schtick seems to be "Look how like you I am! And I make movies!"

[mfunk9786]

I just contend that it takes a bright person to pull that schtick off.

[knives]

How so? He's not really playing to the brightest crowd.

[mfunk9786]

Then why aren't there more Kevin Smiths out there creating an empire based on very little accomplished work? I'd make the same case for Tyler Perry's intelligence.

[knives]

In that case I think we're defining intelligence and being smart differently. Though Smith seems to have fallen into his position and is just smart enough to know how to play it.

[Mr Sausage]

Then why aren't there more Kevin Smiths out there creating an empire based on very little accomplished work? I'd make the same case for Tyler Perry's intelligence.

If it was just down to Smith's intelligence, then you'd have to ask why there aren't more, unless you're contending that his level of intelligence is extremely uncommon.

Malcolm Gladwell's recent book, Outliers, actually explains in really clear terms how many more factors than just intelligence are necessary for achieving success. He points out that the so-called smartest man in America, Christopher Langan, whose IQ is so high as to be unmeasurable, did very little with his life and the opportunities he had despite all the intellectual potential in the world. As well, the people who win nobel prizes are not the people in their field with the highest IQs. There is a threshold for this kind of thing: you don't need to be the smartest person, you just need to be smart enough. Once over the threshold, it's down to other factors. So Smith is just smart enough to succeed in the film industry, but his actual success is down to a lot of other factors.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

Even as a kid I wondered what the holder of the Guinness "Highest IQ" record* was doing writing a column for Parade magazine. A column that's not even 1/1000th as good as "The Straight Dope."

*a record they have long since retired, having decided it's not a useful statistic

[Andre Jurieu]

Then why aren't there more Kevin Smiths out there creating an empire based on very little accomplished work? I'd make the same case for Tyler Perry's intelligence.

Thompson: He made an awful lot of money.
Bernstein: Well, it's no trick to make a lot of money...if all you want...is to make a lot of money.

I think I consider both Smith and Perry to be shrewd more so than intelligent. Not that they don't possess some intelligence and ability, but what they both appear to excel at is delivering a product to a specific demographic, and thus have made a lucrative living in doing so.

[Brian C]

We spent most of the last decade in this country with a President who was, by all indications, as dumb as rocks. So I fail to see what it is that Kevin Smith and Tyler Perry do that requires notably above-average intelligence. Don't get me wrong, they could both be extremely intelligent for all I know (Perry especially I'm mostly unfamiliar with), but what they do and the success that they've had aren't signs of it one way or the other.

I mean, is mfunk going to vouch for the intelligence of Adam Sandler based on his success? Michael Bay? Bill O'Reilly?

(edited for grammar - not good to have a post talking about intelligence without basic subject/verb agreement)

[matrixschmatrix]

I think it's silly to worry about whether Smith is a secret super genius, but I think his early scripts show a fairly smart, reasonably witty guy. He's fallen ass backwards into a giant pool of uncritical fanboys now, but that doesn't mean he's dumb per se, just lazy

[Andre Jurieu]

(edited for grammar - not good to have a post talking about intelligence without basic subject/verb agreement)

It's sad how often I stress over that exact same problem.

[cdnchris]

just lazy

Bingo!

[mfunk9786]

If you re-watch Clerks though... or even Chasing Amy to some extent... there was talent there. I think the contention that he's gotten lazy and too absorbed with his own image is spot-on, but I will continue my forum blitz of the theory that filmmaking talent doesn't just go away, even if it lies dormant.

[Mr Sausage]

but I will continue my forum blitz of the theory that filmmaking talent doesn't just go away, even if it lies dormant.

I don't know how you explain Dario Argento's career, then.

[Duncan Hopper]

but I will continue my forum blitz of the theory that filmmaking talent doesn't just go away, even if it lies dormant.

I don't know how you explain Dario Argento's career, then.

Sad, but VERY true.

[zedz]

If you re-watch Clerks though... or even Chasing Amy to some extent... there was talent there. I think the contention that he's gotten lazy and too absorbed with his own image is spot-on, but I will continue my forum blitz of the theory that filmmaking talent doesn't just go away, even if it lies dormant.

If we're holding up Clerks and Chasing Amy as evidence of talent, then that's a cultural limbo bar that just about any filmmaker could waltz under in heels.

[tachyonEvan]

To hop on an old discussion, I think the fact that Red State is probably his best (and quote-unquote "smartest") film from a filmmaking standpoint and yet simultaneously his least "Kevin Smith-like" is telling. I don't think he's particularly intelligent by any means. He just has a nerdy little niche and is successful at operating within limited parameters. He's got quite a bit of witty dialogue, too.

[tachyonEvan]

Evan, I think you're doing a great job on this forum so far, so please don't take this the wrong way - but you are bumping every single thread that we'd expect someone who's new to Criterion/world cinema/independent cinema/etc to bump at an alarming rate.

Haha, so how should I take this? I'm already falling dangerously into cliché? Or should just slow down?

[mfunk9786]

Both, but I mean it in the friendliest way, I promise. I just thought I'd give you a heads-up before you bump the Donnie Darko and Boondock Saints threads.

[knives]

Slow down. Asking questions and being involved with discussion is of course a good thing, but doing it all at once is tiring for everyone else.

[mfunk9786]

We had another new poster on this forum a few months ago that slid in and decided to write baffling contrarian reviews of just about every new release that'd come out that year that was widely enjoyed by most folks on the forum. Calling into question odd details and trying desperately to turn positives into negatives (criticizing Winter's Bone for the production design being too good, for example), and he wore on almost everyone here because he a) wouldn't take anyone's opinion aside from his own under consideration, b) wouldn't be able to expand on his bombastic views on a film and c) was essentially hijacking threads by restating his opinion over and over and over again every time someone dared to refute his views, since he was going to "film school" of some kind and felt his opinion was straight-up fact.

What I'm trying to say is: you're still doing much, much better than him; and we're happy to have you.

[tachyonEvan]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the feedback and heads-up before things took a turn for the frustrating.

[mfunk9786]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the feedback and heads-up before things took a turn for the frustrating.

Can we re-name any James Mills infighting threads "Things Take a Turn For the Frustrating"?