In The Electric Mist (Bertrand Tavernier, 2008)

[Antoine Doinel]

The director recounts the various indignities suffered during shooting of his first American film including a lead actor refused to eat on camera (Tommy Lee Jones) and the film being taken out of his hands.

[Barmy]

whatever =P~

[bunuelian]

Wow, Tommy Lee Jones really suffers for his art.

[Kinsayder]

I don't want to see things going in or out of Tommy Lee Jones's body.

[Oedipax]

You would think they might work such details out prior to filming.

[domino harvey]

Things got even worse when the actor was asked to show his 'happy face.' "This is my happy face," Jones replied.

[Barmy]

Could Bert just STFU and stop blaming "American insularity". The French like trash no less than we do; we just don't (yet) have a socialist regime that subsidizes boring gabfests that no one ever sees. And if you cast TLJ and John Goodman, you get what you pay for. Antonioni/Bergman would never have made this mistake.

[bunuelian]

The Europeans find it so easy to talk about "Americans" and our limitations, all because they want desperately to ignore their own hideous problems. A dear friend of mine is Indian and lives in the Netherlands, where he's treated on a daily basis like a "dirty Moroccan" despite the fact that he's got a PhD and is a brilliant, profoundly compassionate human being. Europe's self satisfaction at having suffered through the War and the ensuing guilt smacks entirely of the same racist smut that engendered the twentieth century. It's not a mere "insular" attitude, it's a genuine hate for different cultures and people. If their self-satisfied intellectuals want to paint Americans with the same brush, suck it, I say. European enlightenment is an absurd lie that too many people hide behind (Godard, hello).

[Oedipax]

Godard doesn't seem that gung-ho about Europe these days (if indeed he really ever was).

From Je vous salue, Sarajevo:

For there's a rule and an exception. Culture is the rule, and art is the exception. Everybody speaks the rule: cigarette, computer, T-shirt, TV, tourism, war. Nobody speaks the exception. It isn't spoken, it's written: Flaubert, Dostoyevski. It's composed: Gershwin, Mozart. It's painted: Cézanne, Vermeer. It's filmed: Antonioni, Vigo. Or it's lived, and then it's the art of living: Srebenica, Mostar, Sarajevo. The rule is to want the death of the exception. So the rule for Cultural Europe is to organize the death of the art of living, which still flourishes.

[Kinsayder]

Could Bert just STFU and stop blaming "American insularity". The French like trash no less than we do

Yeah, but the French import their trash from America, particularly when they go to the movies (last year's top grossers in France were Ratatouille, Spider-Man 3, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean and Shrek). It's an attitude that Tavernier mocks in L'Appât. The US suck up their own cinematic product and barely look at foreign films. That's all that BT means by insular.

[accatone]

For the Godard reference I would recommend Chapter 7, European Culture and Artistic Resistance in Histoire(s) du cinema, Chapter 3a, La monnaie de l'absolu by James s. Williams in THE CINEMA ALONE - Essays on the Work of Jean Luc Godard 1985-2000.

Indeed and of course Godard is interested in his european culture and to a certain extend in the american culture -

I can see that many of my American friends today are pissed off because they always have to answer questions like "do you all carry guns, are there psychopath Mormons and religious people everywhere etc. etc.". This is stupid, yeah - but then it remembered me of the 80s when the Americans i met or talked to were under the impression that in Germany we all live in little lodges up in the alps dancing crazy, have no refrigerators, McDonalds(!), Skateboards whatever…

However, bunuelian, your round up generalization of Europe is almost as silly or one-dimensional as saying "Europeans have History, Americans have t-Shirts".

[MichaelB]

are there psychopath Mormons

Are there any psychopathic Mormons? I always thought the crime rate in Utah was quite low by comparison with the rest of the US.

[domino harvey]

Mormons are inherently non-violent, what a silly misconception

[MichaelB]

The Europeans find it so easy to talk about "Americans" and our limitations, all because they want desperately to ignore their own hideous problems. A dear friend of mine is Indian and lives in the Netherlands, where he's treated on a daily basis like a "dirty Moroccan" despite the fact that he's got a PhD and is a brilliant, profoundly compassionate human being. Europe's self satisfaction at having suffered through the War and the ensuing guilt smacks entirely of the same racist smut that engendered the twentieth century. It's not a mere "insular" attitude, it's a genuine hate for different cultures and people.

So let me get this straight: you're appalled at the way your Indian friend is labelled "a dirty Moroccan", yet you're quite happy to slap all sorts of collective slurs on Europeans as a whole?

Mind you, what would I know? As a European, I'm clearly a racist smut-monger who harbours nothing but hate for different cultures and people.

[Zazou dans le Metro]

[quote="bunuelian"] Europe's self satisfaction at having suffered through the War and the ensuing guilt smacks entirely of the same racist smut that engendered the twentieth century.

You're so right. I just watched Night and Fog again and my, what a smug little piece that is! It simply reeks of self satisfaction. It can only be matched by my wife's glee at having all of her grandparents die in labour camps, a fact that we celebrate on a daily basis with copious quantities of Saint Emilion and stuffing foie gras before we go out on the town looking for some old Mahgrebians to humiliate and torment.

[domino harvey]

You're so right. I just watched Night and Fog again and my, what a smug little piece that is! It simply reeks of self satisfaction. It can only be matched by my wife's glee at having all of her grandparents die in labour camps, a fact that we celebrate on a daily basis with copious quantities of Saint Emilion and stuffing foie gras before we go out on the town looking for some old Mahgrebians to humiliate and torment.

=D>

I don't understand why a regular poster here like bunuelian thought we were gonna be okay with xenophobic reactions to European culture.

[Barmy]

Could Bert just STFU and stop blaming "American insularity". The French like trash no less than we do

Yeah, but the French import their trash from America, particularly when they go to the movies (last year's top grossers in France were Ratatouille, Spider-Man 3, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean and Shrek). It's an attitude that Tavernier mocks in L'Appât. The US suck up their own cinematic product and barely look at foreign films. That's all that BT means by insular.

I think the French produce plenty of detritus, e.g. the Les Bronzés series, Asterix and Bienvenue Chez Les Ch'tis--all massively successful and entertaining (well, maybe not Asterix) trash.

[MichaelB]

I think the French produce plenty of detritus, e.g. the Les Bronzés series, Asterix and Bienvenue Chez Les Ch'tis--all massively successful and entertaining (well, maybe not Asterix) trash.

Absolutely - though in general this doesn't get exported, thus perpetuating the myth that French cinema is all about chin-stroking beret-wearers discussing philosophy, or at least has an altogether higher collective IQ than its English-speaking counterpart.

Many years ago I saw a list of Gerard Depardieu's biggest domestic hits, and while I'd seen most of the titles in the top ten, I'd never even heard of The Goat (this was before the days when I could look stuff up on the IMDB) - and I think that was at number one!

[Barmy]

And then there's Les Visiteurs...

[MichaelB]

And then there's Les Visiteurs...

A Jurassic Park-beating behemoth in France that barely lasted a fortnight in British cinemas - and I'm quite surprised it opened at all!

[Antoine Doinel]

I think the French produce plenty of detritus, e.g. the Les Bronzés series, Asterix and Bienvenue Chez Les Ch'tis--all massively successful and entertaining (well, maybe not Asterix) trash.

Absolutely - though in general this doesn't get exported, thus perpetuating the myth that French cinema is all about chin-stroking beret-wearers discussing philosophy, or at least has an altogether higher collective IQ than its English-speaking counterpart.

Living in Quebec, we get a good share of mainstream French cinema screened here often with English subtitles. Aside from the blockbusters above, France also has a healthy amount of standard rom-com fare and tepid dramas. Though, I have to admit, I have a huge soft spot for the former.

[accatone]

Mormons are inherently non-violent, what a silly misconception

Sorry for this silly misconception Domino - Mormons or Utha is really not on my "map" so lord forgive!!! But i do know someone connected somehow to Utha - Jeff Hornacek…silly again - sorry!

[John Cope]

I don't understand why a regular poster here like bunuelian thought we were gonna be okay with xenophobic reactions to European culture.

Uh...because he didn't expect his reaction to be labeled as "xenophobic". Obviously to make some blanket condemnation is inane but I'm assuming what bunuelian is getting at is that the presumed notions of European Enlightenment that are taken as a given even amongst certain intellectuals should not be and Europe's cultural climate is just as justifiably worth serious scrutiny as that of the US.

Bunuelian's real time examples go somewhat toward suggesting that the process of work to be done can never cease.

[colinr0380]

I think the French produce plenty of detritus.

Not to prolong this too much but I just wanted to add Ma Femme Est Une Actrice (makes you long for the complex characters of a Richard Curtis film!) and Ils (makes you long for the Michael Haneke remake!) are topping my list for worst films of the decade so far.

[Stagger Lee]

I just watched Night and Fog again and my, what a smug little piece that is! It simply reeks of self satisfaction. It can only be matched by my wife's glee at having all of her grandparents die in labour camps, a fact that we celebrate on a daily basis with copious quantities of Saint Emilion and stuffing foie gras before we go out on the town looking for some old Mahgrebians to humiliate and torment.

I don't understand why a regular poster here like bunuelian thought we were gonna be okay with xenophobic reactions to European culture.

Uh...because he didn't expect his reaction to be labeled as "xenophobic".

Plus, who fucking cares if you and your implied alliance are "okay" with someone's perspective?