516 Stagecoach

[Andre Jurieu]

This discussion is making me more appreciative of my Canadian education. Stagecoach was the first movie we watched in my introductory film studies class in university. I also had a English teacher in high school that let us watch Citizen Kane and Apocalypse Now on the last week of classes, though I might have been one of only three people in the class to actually think this was a good idea.

[jsteffe]

I was never shown any Ford in film school (well, one clip from The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.) Caught up with Stagecoach last year, which started my belated infatuation with Ford. One of the most entertaining movies ever made, and a masterclass in screenwriting characterization.

You should write them and ask for your money back because they FAILED to include John Ford in the curriculum. Even if someone doesn't like his films, they can't deny his centrality. And yes, Stagecoach is a "masterclass in screenwriting characterization," to say nothing of story structure.

Even though we already have the older editions of this film in the library, I'm definitely ordering copies of this new Criterion edition AND the Blu-ray. I'd be derelict in my duties if I didn't!

[Dr Amicus]

Back when I was an undergraduate at Kent University, I remember watching this on 35mm for a Film Theory class (it tied in with a key article the name of which I've shamefully forgotten). Almost all the films shown then (late 80s / early 90s) were in 35 or 16mm.

In my first year, the Intro to Film course had three sections - history (mainly centred on technology or industry), genre (my year this was melodrama, and i think for the subsequent two as well) and authorship. When I took the course, we did Hawks but subsequent years covered Ford. To my eternal regret I was never able to get to many of the screenings for either year...

Now fast forward a few years and I'm teaching a course in Hollywood / American cinema - more from a social history pov rather than Film Theory (ahhh... the "pleasures" of being a visiting lecturer...) and as an example of thirties cinema we showed Public Enemy , King Kong and Stagecoach. It was interesting how little classic Hollywood many people had actually seen - and despite this being a history of American Cinema course, we had more than a few complaints that there were too many old films

[Mr Sausage]

This discussion is making me more appreciative of my Canadian education. Stagecoach was the first movie we watched in my introductory film studies class in university. I also had a English teacher in high school that let us watch Citizen Kane and Apocalypse Now on the last week of classes, though I might have been one of only three people in the class to actually think this was a good idea.

And it's making me more appreciative of Canadian TV. I saw this when I was a young child (eight or nine I think) on a Toronto-based public broadcast channel that showed (and still does show) old movies every Saturday night. That said, I don't remember much about the plot, but there are a few scenes burned into my memory like

SpoilerShow

John Wayne jumping the horses and David Carradine trying to shoot the hysterical woman before being shot himself by the indians. I had to ask my father to explain Carradine's motives for that one.

Can't wait to revisit this.

[Jonathan S]

David Carradine

John of course!

[tojoed]

This discussion is making me more appreciative of my Canadian education. .

And it's making me more appreciative of Canadian TV...

.

.. And British TV, too. When I was a child, and we only had two TV channels, I must have seen "Stagecoach" many times. It was always a favourite among the "Cowboy" films that we watched. I'm surprised so many Americans didn't see it until they went to film school.

[triodelover]

.. And British TV, too. When I was a child, and we only had two TV channels, I must have seen "Stagecoach" many times. It was always a favourite among the "Cowboy" films that we watched. I'm surprised so many Americans didn't see it until they went to film school.

Not all of us. I had a favorite aunt who is responsible for my love of motion pictures. I can remember sitting with her and watching Stagecoach on her 21" B&W RCA console with the beautiful inlaid cabinet ($350 new in 1952) back in the '50s. I loved the film because Andy Devine was in it and I always watched "Andy's Gang", the kids' program he had at time ("Hiya, kids! Hiya! Hiya! Pluck your magic twanger, froggy."). Of course, when I saw it as an adult, I found other reasons to appreciate the film. That aunt is responsible for me knowing who folks like Stan Laurel and Hoagy Charmichael were before I knew who Elvis Presley was.

[domino harvey]

David Carradine

John of course!

You can hardly blame him though, father and son look practically identical

[Mr Sausage]

David Carradine

John of course!

Hah! That's not the first time I've made that mistake, either.

[GringoTex]

But on the flipside, I still remember one of my upper-level English teachers showing about five minutes of the Grapes of Wrath during a Steinbeck unit and mocking it mercilessly before shutting it off. This was an intelligent man otherwise capable of great insight and open-mindedness, but there's really no dealing with studio system Hollywood for some people!

I had a similar experience in a graduate school writing course where for an adaptation exercise, I chose to write a "novelization" of the first 20 minutes of The Searchers. I was put to the stake by the Prof and other students for the banality of my source material.

[Brian C]

I had a similar experience in a graduate school writing course where for an adaptation exercise, I chose to write a "novelization" of the first 20 minutes of The Searchers. I was put to the stake by the Prof and other students for the banality of my source material.

Speaking of banality of source material, the same professor who showed us Stagecoach assigned us to write thirty pages of an adaptation of Stephen King's Desperation. Go figure.

[eljacko]

I was never shown any Ford in film school (well, one clip from The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.) Caught up with Stagecoach last year, which started my belated infatuation with Ford. One of the most entertaining movies ever made, and a masterclass in screenwriting characterization.

There hasn't been any Ford in my school as well; strangely enough, I saw it for the first time in a high school english class! Granted, the head of the department has expressed her dislike of Ford to me personally, but even still...

I am not too familiar with John Ford myself but this film is a great ride and good fun - I have no money but I may just have to get this.

[Feego]

Come to think of it, we never watched any Ford movies at my university either. One semester, though, I took an independent study with a professor who once taught a class on film genres, and one of his favorites was the western. He had me watch Ford's Stagecoach, Drums Along the Mohawk, and My Darling Clementine. Ashamedly, I had seen very few Hollywood westerns up to that point (except for High Noon, Red River, and Shane), and I was hooked by these films, especially Clementine.

[AquaNarc]

I took an entire course on Ford Westerns, with a professor who was incredibly passionate about Ford and has published multiple books on him. I feel privileged after reading this thread.

[Brian C]

Ashamedly, I had seen very few Hollywood westerns up to that point ....

I don't see any reason to be "ashamed" of that. A university student with a working knowledge of Hollywood westerns would be a rather rare sort of bird, I would guess.

[knives]

I was hooked by these films, especially Clementine.

I almost feel like a bastard for saying this, but I feel like Clementine is only average Ford. I grows on me with each viewing, but Stagecoach, Grapes of Wrath, ect. it is not to me. That said it is still the best Earp movie out there.

[Feego]

I was hooked by these films, especially Clementine.

I almost feel like a bastard for saying this, but I feel like Clementine is only average Ford. I grows on me with each viewing, but Stagecoach, Grapes of Wrath, ect. it is not to me. That said it is still the best Earp movie out there.

Don't feel bad. Different strokes for different folks.

Ashamedly, I had seen very few Hollywood westerns up to that point ....

I don't see any reason to be "ashamed" of that. A university student with a working knowledge of Hollywood westerns would be a rather rare sort of bird, I would guess.

Not so much ashamed I guess, but mad at myself for not seeking out these films sooner. What I've missed!

[Brian C]

Not so much ashamed I guess, but mad at myself for not seeking out these films sooner. What I've missed!

Well, that's how it works, isn't it? The more you see, the more you realize how much you haven't seen. I can remember a time in my life when I thought that seeing 70 new movies a year was keeping up. Ah, the folly of youth.

[BWilson]

The thing about Monument Valley. and I only realised it when Cahiers du Cinema published a piece including map in their volume 'John Ford' pub. circa 1991, that Ford may let the narrative run over hundreds of miles, but the actual topography of shooting is just restricted to a few square miles, which are covered from different angles over and over again...

This led to a lot of confusion for me. I grew up in California, I'm familiar with western geography, and I visited Monument Valley in my youth. The first time I watched The Searchers I completely missed the idea of Wayne and the kid searching far and wide and many years passing. To my eyes it looked like all they did was ride around monument valley for a few days. I ignored any mention the film made of Texas, Mexico, etc and I just thought it was a film about a family that lived on the Arizona/Utah border and when the girl got lost they rode around the valley for years and couldn't find her. It took me a while to realize that Wayne filmed the valley as a stand in for all of "the west", and that easterners and foriegners probably thought that all of the western US looked like Monument Valley from North Dakota to Arizona.

[fiddlesticks]

The thing about Monument Valley. and I only realised it when Cahiers du Cinema published a piece including map in their volume 'John Ford' pub. circa 1991, that Ford may let the narrative run over hundreds of miles, but the actual topography of shooting is just restricted to a few square miles, which are covered from different angles over and over again...

This led to a lot of confusion for me. I grew up in California, I'm familiar with western geography, and I visited Monument Valley in my youth. The first time I watched The Searchers I completely missed the idea of Wayne and the kid searching far and wide and many years passing. To my eyes it looked like all they did was ride around monument valley for a few days. I ignored any mention the film made of Texas, Mexico, etc and I just thought it was a film about a family that lived on the Arizona/Utah border and when the girl got lost they rode around the valley for years and couldn't find her. It took me a while to realize that Wayne filmed the valley as a stand in for all of "the west", and that easterners and foriegners probably thought that all of the western US looked like Monument Valley from North Dakota to Arizona.

The Searchers wasn't entirely shot in Monument Valley; the winter scenes were shot somewhere in Canada (Alberta or Saskatchewan, I believe.) But your point is well-taken (apart from the idea that it was Wayne and not Ford making these decisions. )

[Shogo36]

Just caught this at the MFA in Boston last week. If anyone lives/is near Boston the MFA is running a series on Ford's Monument Valley Films. At the same time The Harvard Film Archive is doing a Ford retrospective running all this month and March. Ahh! That's quite a bit of Ford!

I unfortunately don't have quite the love for Ford that everyone else seems to have here. I did love My Darling Clementine quite a bit however when I saw it. At the MFA I've seen Stagecoach, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, and I just got back from Rio Grande. Consistently gorgeous films (although I thought Yellow Ribbon was not at all good).

Interestingly enough we are watching The Searchers in my Film Theory class in just a couple of weeks tho! So Ford hasn't quite been kicked out of the curriculum.

[cdnchris]

Blu-ray grabs:

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Truncated notes about the transfer from the booklet (any typos are mine)

The original negative for Stagecoach has been considered lost for decades. For this edition, we evaluated several of the best surviving prints, both restored and original, before we found a 1942 nitrate duplicate negative that showed exceptional detail, gray scale, and clairty. We chose it as the primary source for this new high-definition digital transfer [...trim...] because we believed it was the best surviving film material for Stagecoach...
...

It goes on to state they left a number of defects because removing them would have hurt the image.

I think it looks great, actually, a huge improvement over the Warner disc, which was the definition of contrast boosting.

[andyli]

Truncated notes about the transfer from the booklet (any typos are mine)

The original negative for Stagecoach has been considered lost for decades. For this edition, we evaluated several of the best surviving prints, both restored and original, before we found a 1942 nitrate duplicate negative that showed exceptional detail, gray scale, and clairty. We chose it as the primary source for this new high-definition digital transfer [...trim...] because we believed it was the best surviving film material for Stagecoach...

It goes on to state they left a number of defects because removing them would have hurt the image.

I think it looks great, actually, a huge improvement over the Warner disc, which was the definition of contrast boosting.

Did they mention UCLA in the 'About the Transfer'? I remembered them more than once talking about working with UCLA on the restoration.

[Jeff]

I remembered them more than once talking about working with UCLA on the restoration.

Did they? I don't remember them mentioning it, I just assumed they were using the UCLA restoration. I think UCLA handles repertory distribution for the film on behalf of The Caidin Trust anyway, so surely they would be somewhat involved regardless.

[andyli]

For example, once on Facebook they said:

Not ready for March. It's in the works, but it's tricky, because the original negative is lost, so the quality of the master will be directly related to the amount of time and effort we are putting in to find the best surviving film elements anywhere in the world. We are working with UCLA on this as well...