From Facebook.MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA to join The Masters of Cinema Series! We're absolutely thrilled to announce that we will be releasing what has been heralded as the best documentary of all time and not just that, one of the greatest films of all time – Dziga Vertov's fantastic Man with a Movie Camera. Taken from the stunning recent Lobster Films, EYE Film Institute, Cinémathèque de Toulouse, and the Centre National de la Cinématographie restoration and presented with a collection of Vertov's other works, this deluxe special edition set will be joining The Masters of Cinema Series very soon. More news on a release date and full specs when we have it, but this will be a release not to miss!
BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Vertov
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Vertov
In the not-unexpected, and we kind of saw this coming department:
-
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:24 pm
Re: MoC Forthcoming, Wishlist and Random Speculation
Was this not unexpected with the recent BFI?Drucker wrote:In the not-unexpected, and we kind of saw this coming department:
From Facebook.MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA to join The Masters of Cinema Series! We're absolutely thrilled to announce that we will be releasing what has been heralded as the best documentary of all time and not just that, one of the greatest films of all time – Dziga Vertov's fantastic Man with a Movie Camera. Taken from the stunning recent Lobster Films, EYE Film Institute, Cinémathèque de Toulouse, and the Centre National de la Cinématographie restoration and presented with a collection of Vertov's other works, this deluxe special edition set will be joining The Masters of Cinema Series very soon. More news on a release date and full specs when we have it, but this will be a release not to miss!
-
- Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am
Re: MoC Forthcoming, Wishlist and Random Speculation
The fact that the BFI couldn't get the recent restoration implied that another label already had it - and MoC was the obvious candidate.rwaits wrote:
Was this not unexpected with the recent BFI?
It's fantastic news, as the encoding on the Flicker Alley and Lobster releases can be improved upon. And I want the Cinematic Orchestra score, though I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if it's included.
-
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:24 pm
Re: MoC Forthcoming, Wishlist and Random Speculation
Thanks. I didn't realize that BFI's was not the most recent restoration. Very exciting.
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
Re: MoC Forthcoming, Wishlist and Random Speculation
Of course, with the combination of scores and bonus films, you could argue all three releases from English-friendly territories are necessary.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: Forthcoming: Man with a Movie Camera
We don't know the score options and bonus films for this one yet. I'm guessing though that the MoC and BFI will collectively cover everything on the FA/Lobster releases (and then some).
- Tommaso
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am
Re: Forthcoming: Man with a Movie Camera
Very good news. And please, MoC, put on "Kino-Glaz" as an extra and make the whole package dual-format. Please.
- rapta
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
- Location: Hants, UK
Re: Forthcoming: Man with a Movie Camera
Was expected - after hearing the BFI didn't have the rights to the restored version - but glad to hear this will be their first 'deluxe' edition of a single title. Hoping for either a steelbook, or something special (like The Passion of Joan of Arc). They say 'very soon' so I'm guessing November as they don't often release much in December...though you never know, this could be one of the two special 'box sets' Kevin mentioned would be released before the end of the year (the other apparently coming out early 2016).
Was hoping Eureka had Out 1 but I'm sure they'll have something else just as special planned. Hopefully something like The Apu Trilogy, or another Japanese set (but this time more of a surprise)?
Also, hope they confirm Rocco and His Brothers as an upcoming released after they basically 'made' BFI cancel theirs (well, by reminding them they still had exclusive UK rights). They certainly have hinted that this will also be upcoming, I just want to hear them say it explicitly!
Was hoping Eureka had Out 1 but I'm sure they'll have something else just as special planned. Hopefully something like The Apu Trilogy, or another Japanese set (but this time more of a surprise)?
Also, hope they confirm Rocco and His Brothers as an upcoming released after they basically 'made' BFI cancel theirs (well, by reminding them they still had exclusive UK rights). They certainly have hinted that this will also be upcoming, I just want to hear them say it explicitly!
- What A Disgrace
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:34 pm
- Contact:
Re: Forthcoming: Man with a Movie Camera
Put The Eleventh Hour on there and all three of these discs will be eseential.
- rapta
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
- Location: Hants, UK
- Caligula
- Carthago delenda est
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:32 am
- Location: George, South Africa
Re: Forthcoming: Man with a Movie Camera
Gonna be a 4-disc dual format set, according to the Amazon listing
- rapta
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
- Location: Hants, UK
Re: Forthcoming: Man with a Movie Camera
Yeah, most likely 2xBD and 2xDVD. It seems it will be similar to The Passion of Joan of Arc and feature a hard outer box because the booklet will be 100 pages! Sounds like a very classy release, and I'm glad I waited for this one (though may still pick up the BFI disc at a later date...same goes for their Nosferatu and The Birth of a Nation releases).
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
The "other works" are:
Kino-Eye (1924)
Kino-Pravda #21 (1925)
Enthusiasm: Symphony of the Donbass (1931)
Three Songs About Lenin (1934)
So the same as the Flicker Alley release.
Kino-Eye (1924)
Kino-Pravda #21 (1925)
Enthusiasm: Symphony of the Donbass (1931)
Three Songs About Lenin (1934)
So the same as the Flicker Alley release.
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
It must be pretty definite that MoC will include the Alloy Orchestra score. I wonder if it will be better synched to the film than it was on the Flicker Alley disc. When I watched the FA Blu, I noticed that the audio appeared to be the same recording that was used on the older Image Entertainment DVD, so it did not quite fit with the slightly longer cut of the film.
- Drucker
- Your Future our Drucker
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
Beaver. PQ wise for the main feature, this unexpectedly seems to be definitive.
- stevewhamola
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:20 pm
- Location: NWT, Canada
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
I was fully expecting MoC to deliver the definitive package. Glad I waited nearly a year before buying this despite the existence of two competing Blus already on the market.
- Ashirg
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:10 am
- Location: Atlanta
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
Per Michael B. in facebook comments to DVD Beaver review, Jon Robertson and David Mackenzie synced up the Alloy Orchestra soundtrack so it matches the intended frames of the new restorations.Feego wrote:It must be pretty definite that MoC will include the Alloy Orchestra score. I wonder if it will be better synched to the film than it was on the Flicker Alley disc. When I watched the FA Blu, I noticed that the audio appeared to be the same recording that was used on the older Image Entertainment DVD, so it did not quite fit with the slightly longer cut of the film.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
As to how it was done, David Mackenzie has posted this on another forum:
I did the QC on this title, which included double-checking that everything matched the new sync points, so I can confirm first hand just how much work went into this. But it was spectacularly worth the effort.Resyncing the score was quite delicate. The biggest problem is that the new restoration usually has more footage than what the score was originally recorded to, as you pointed out.
Jon Robertson of MoC identified the key parts where the sync was not right. I then had to find points where the sync could be adjusted without it becoming obvious. There are a limited number of points you can cut at to shift things around (small gaps of silence are the ideal case). Another "cheat" was whenever there's cymbal crashes at the end of a sequence. You can digitally time-stretch those parts of the audio without creating audible artefacts, to make up differences in duration, in a way that would sound weird with almost any other type of instrument.
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
That sounds awesome. It's much appreciated when people go the extra mile in fine-tuning releases.
This is going to be one of the first things I project in my new house once we're up and running.
This is going to be one of the first things I project in my new house once we're up and running.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
I examined several other versions during QC, and they all ticked at least two of these boxes:
• unrestored version
• visibly cropped picture (and not just in comparison with the restoration)
• visible encoding artefacts
• out-of-sync score
• incomplete subtitles
...and my brief was to make sure that all the above were thoroughly addressed.
For the subtitles, we decided to go for broke and translate/transliterate everything, at least on its first appearance, including the labels on the editing shelves, admonitions to library users, etc. You can of course appreciate the film with no subtitles at all, so in some respects all this extra effort wasn't strictly necessary, but it was immensely satisfying seeing everything getting so comprehensively fleshed out. I'm really really pleased with how it turned out, and I hope everyone agrees.
• unrestored version
• visibly cropped picture (and not just in comparison with the restoration)
• visible encoding artefacts
• out-of-sync score
• incomplete subtitles
...and my brief was to make sure that all the above were thoroughly addressed.
For the subtitles, we decided to go for broke and translate/transliterate everything, at least on its first appearance, including the labels on the editing shelves, admonitions to library users, etc. You can of course appreciate the film with no subtitles at all, so in some respects all this extra effort wasn't strictly necessary, but it was immensely satisfying seeing everything getting so comprehensively fleshed out. I'm really really pleased with how it turned out, and I hope everyone agrees.
- colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
This is a bit off topic, but it has always interested me to see how subtitlers deal with the issue of on-screen text. It might not be too much of a problem in many films but especially in something in Man With A Movie Camera where the names of buildings or information on posters are occasionally providing the context and the narrative drive to a scene (because the text is another image itself, often as vibrant and full of energy and meaning as the location photography), or at least orientating a scene spatially in a film that is constantly jumping from situation to situation (or even just providing a jokey commentary!), how much or little is translated becomes crucial to the audience's experience.
In a different film I found it an interesting experiment, though not an entirely successful one, to see the way that one release of Akira on DVD (the Pioneer disc from the early 2000s) featured a kind of 'pop-up' subtitle track that flashed up a clickable prompt every time a bit of onscreen text featured in order to overlay a translation of it. That greatly enhanced my comprehension and enjoyment of the film (that is another film full of context-adding signs, from the Olympic Stadium advert early in the film that becomes the crucial setting for the final climax, to the various banners and graffiti scrawls that appear as the rioting increases, to all the computer terminals!), but unfortunately clicking the prompt every time to pause the film and read the translation was extremely jarring and immersion-breaking, so it wouldn't have been the best way to watch any film for the first time!
I guess, as with subtitling in general, there is a fine balance to be drawn between translating for clarity and comprehension, and getting the point across in general, and a (perhaps always unattainable without producing something dry and lifeless) goal of being utterly thorough in capturing every detail. It (as with dubbing) sounds like it is quite an art in itself!
In a different film I found it an interesting experiment, though not an entirely successful one, to see the way that one release of Akira on DVD (the Pioneer disc from the early 2000s) featured a kind of 'pop-up' subtitle track that flashed up a clickable prompt every time a bit of onscreen text featured in order to overlay a translation of it. That greatly enhanced my comprehension and enjoyment of the film (that is another film full of context-adding signs, from the Olympic Stadium advert early in the film that becomes the crucial setting for the final climax, to the various banners and graffiti scrawls that appear as the rioting increases, to all the computer terminals!), but unfortunately clicking the prompt every time to pause the film and read the translation was extremely jarring and immersion-breaking, so it wouldn't have been the best way to watch any film for the first time!
I guess, as with subtitling in general, there is a fine balance to be drawn between translating for clarity and comprehension, and getting the point across in general, and a (perhaps always unattainable without producing something dry and lifeless) goal of being utterly thorough in capturing every detail. It (as with dubbing) sounds like it is quite an art in itself!
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
As you say, it's a balancing act. Had there been loads of onscreen text in The Man with the Movie Camera, we'd have been a lot more selective - but in practice it's only very occasional, so we thought "why not?"
And it is interesting to know that, for instance, the industrial-looking building is the office of Izvestia, one of the main Soviet newspapers, or the names of the precise categories into which the various clips are being filed in the editing-room sequence. You certainly don't need to know any of this, but by the same token there's no particularly good reason not to offer a thorough translation. Not least because the subtitles are optional, so if anyone finds them annoying (although it's hard to imagine why they would - entire minutes go by with no subtitles at all), they can easily switch them off.
With other films, my main question is "is this narratively relevant or psychologically interesting?" It's always a judgement call, but a lot of the time the answers are pretty straightforward.
And it is interesting to know that, for instance, the industrial-looking building is the office of Izvestia, one of the main Soviet newspapers, or the names of the precise categories into which the various clips are being filed in the editing-room sequence. You certainly don't need to know any of this, but by the same token there's no particularly good reason not to offer a thorough translation. Not least because the subtitles are optional, so if anyone finds them annoying (although it's hard to imagine why they would - entire minutes go by with no subtitles at all), they can easily switch them off.
With other films, my main question is "is this narratively relevant or psychologically interesting?" It's always a judgement call, but a lot of the time the answers are pretty straightforward.
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
If you're expecting a typical MoC, sturdy slipcase with this release you might want to temper expectations; it's thin, Criterion-style card.
The front cover looks great though and there are no BBFC logos strangely. Either they are considering this to be exempt or someone has messed up.
The front cover looks great though and there are no BBFC logos strangely. Either they are considering this to be exempt or someone has messed up.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
They're unarguably documentaries, and there's nothing in them that would get anything stronger than a PG. So even under the new, tougher rules they're clearly exempt from classification, and so there was absolutely no reason for Eureka to submit them.TMDaines wrote:The front cover looks great though and there are no BBFC logos strangely. Either they are considering this to be exempt or someone has messed up.
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: BD 134 Man with a Movie Camera & Other Works by Dziga Ve
Interesting that the BFI chose to submit the film in the pas.