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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Location: Worthing
artfilmfan wrote:
Ahhh, the "hairs" ! They have the habit of showing up every where ... Likely and unlikely places. I ended up staring at that hair in La Notte for two minutes ... The first time around and upon a rewind

If it's part of the original film and has always been part of the original film, conscientious restorers tend to leave such defects alone.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:14 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:11 pm
The Jazzy soundtrack of this film is now available on a very nice-sounding CD at Amazon. Jazz, Italian style, at its best.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:27 pm 
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According to this review of Jazz in Italian Cinema (Spreading new sounds from the Big Screen 1958-62) the music was recorded live on set of the film for the concluding party scene.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:32 am 
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Just rewatched the Criterion blu-ray as I'm brushing up on my Italian for my upcoming visit. I happen to notice a mistake in the subtitles. When Monica Vitti is asked how old she is she says "diciotto" (18), but the Criterion subtitles read "twenty-two". Anyone know of a reason for this flub?


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:00 am 
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Hmm...that just makes the character a bit more ludicrous: Reading Hermann Broch and conducting dense and difficult late night/early morning conversation with people twice her age is already somewhat hard to take.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:55 am 
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Lowry_Sam wrote:
Just rewatched the Criterion blu-ray as I'm brushing up on my Italian for my upcoming visit. I happen to notice a mistake in the subtitles. When Monica Vitti is asked how old she is she says "diciotto" (18), but the Criterion subtitles read "twenty-two". Anyone know of a reason for this flub?

I have absolutely no idea other than to hazard a guess that it might have something to do with the respective ages of majority. The connotation of her being 18 and a minor might be misleading in a US context.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:24 am 
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Lachino wrote:
Hmm...that just makes the character a bit more ludicrous: Reading Hermann Broch and conducting dense and difficult late night/early morning conversation with people twice her age is already somewhat hard to take.
Curious whether the reference to The Sleepwalkers was written into the screenplay as a reflecting device to comment on Italian society, especially the party guests, on their declining values of humanity and pursuit of wealth/pleasure after the defeat of Italy in WW2 as referenced in the book to German society after WW1?


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:54 am 
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I'm guessing that it might be because Vitti is 30 years old when this film was released & 18 stretches credibility. But that then raises issue of subtitles changing meaning of the film & director's intention...


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:02 am 
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Is it perhaps common in that culture for a woman lying about her age to suggest she is 22, like an American woman might lie and say she is 18?


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:25 am 
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On the old MoC DVD (haven't checked the blu-ray), she says 'ventidue'; in the 1963 (English) edition of the screenplay, she says '21'; but yes, on the Criterion blu-ray it's 'diciotto'. Interesting that there are different versions...

But the key phrase is the one that follows: 'and many, many months'. She is in a state of arrested development, unable to get on with her life, but in an emotional and psychological sense she seems older and wiser than Giovanni or Lidia. She is both too young and too mature to have an affair with this man, or to involve herself too deeply in this couple's problems.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:52 am 
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Sloper wrote:
On the old MoC DVD (haven't checked the blu-ray), she says 'ventidue'; on the Criterion blu-ray it's 'diciotto'.

Wait, the Italian soundtracks on these 2 releases have a different dialog line there ?


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:59 am 
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Yes - maybe 'diciotto' was getting incredulous laughs from some audiences, drowning out the next part of the line, so they changed it?


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Do her lip movements match with "ventidue" or "diciotto?"


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Looks like 'diciotto' to me, but I can't be sure.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Just rewatched. Her lips definitely say "diciotto". The thing about it is with the delay & second half "multi multi mesi," it doesn't really matter if it's 18 or 22, because the actual meaning of what she is saying is that she is stating she is young but knows she is in fact much older.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:59 am 
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In a selection of published scripts in Italian & French (Einaudi, L'Avant Scene Cinema & Buchet Chastel) Valentina declares herself variously to be 20, 21 & 22, and several months each... In unpublished scripts & treatments she is identified as the independent minded attractive adult daughter of the industrialist, a description which suffices, although I don't have the exact dialogue line intended...


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:34 pm 
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In which scene is this line? I have the English translation of the screenplay from a collection published in 1963, but can't locate the equivalent line.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:49 pm 
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It's towards the end of the film, when Monica Vitti & Jeanne Moreau are together and Monica raises the issue of what she was doing with Jeanne's husband (Marcello Mastroianni), Jeanne says she doesn't want to know, but then asks Monica her age.


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:35 am 
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Oh, there it is. In this translation: "Twenty-one. Plus many months more."


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 Post subject: Re: 678 La notte
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:06 am 
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Location: Stretford, Manchester
That’s a cool find. Poor on whoever did Criterion’s subtitles and QC to not catch that. I wonder if there are any other subtle differences between different prints.


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