Alien Franchise (1979-?)

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The Narrator Returns
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#176 Post by The Narrator Returns » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:58 am


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carmilla mircalla
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#177 Post by carmilla mircalla » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:47 am

While I have the same feelings watching that trailer that was responsible for my foolish expectations for Prometheus I have learned my lesson and while the trailer is overall a good one visually I will kepe expectations very, very low.

Though the shower scene at the end is corny.

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tenia
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#178 Post by tenia » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:49 am

Looking on the bright side, it will hard to do more boring than Prometheus, but while the trailer shows a promising movie, it also doesn't help understanding precisely on which tone the movie will operate. One of the issues I have with Prometheus is that it jumps from action to drama to pseudo-philosophy to horror-suspense in a very poor way, and I'm afraid Covenant will stumble again on this.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#179 Post by Big Ben » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:47 am

I must confess to finding that scene at the end of the trailer to be in poor taste. One of the things that made the original work for me was that it didn't rely on cheap shocks. To have the beginning of a sex scene in the already well known "prude" Ridley Scott film seems to be...pushing it?

Regardless I'm looking forward to it.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#180 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:47 am

Not just a prude, but he seems to have maintained a low opinion of horror movies (with exceptions like The Exorcist and Texas Chainsaw Massacre). And judging from the sex scene, this seems to be pushing the horror angle much more than Prometheus did.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#181 Post by John Cope » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:20 pm

Disappointed by the distinct lack of Noomi Rapace in the trailer. Not too enthused about that being made up for by a distinct recreation of Alien either. However, that may be deceptive. I'm by no means a huge fan of Prometheus but at least it had some ambition, even if it's mishandled. I also think it's easier now to appreciate it as the very good B movie that it is (even the half baked philosophy strung throughout works on that level).

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#182 Post by Finch » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:15 pm

Unless I misread it, John Logan now has sole writing credit for Covenant.

I'm not sure what to make of this first trailer. It feels more like a sizzle reel with the "money shots" randomly thrown in. Prometheus had a great first US trailer; this film appears more intense but I'm sceptical that it'll have anything worthwhile to add to the canon. I love the original film dearly; I like Cameron's second film for what it is, and I'll vouch for the Alien 3 assembly cut but I think Damon Lindelof wasn't far off when he suggested to Scott that spin-offs would be the way forward. Something more unique along the lines of Vincent Ward's script for Alien 3...

When I hear stuff like that
SpoilerShow
Katherine Waterston's character is reportedly going to be Ellen Ripley's mother
, it feels like a ham-fisted tie-in to the 1979 film, an expansion that I don't think is needed.

I think at this stage, it's very hard to re-create the mystery and terror the alien originally had. I'm not pretending that I have the answer.

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Luke M
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#183 Post by Luke M » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:46 pm

I probably enjoyed Prometheus more than most here, but I thought the trailer for this one was bad. Whatever Jesus-was-an-Engineer storyline they had going seems to be abandoned for jump scares. It's only the first trailer but it's disappointing.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#184 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:14 am

Luke M wrote:I probably enjoyed Prometheus more than most here, but I thought the trailer for this one was bad. Whatever Jesus-was-an-Engineer storyline they had going seems to be abandoned for jump scares. It's only the first trailer but it's disappointing.
Yes, and the spooky rendition of "Nature Boy" doesn't help. For as clumsy as the Prometheus script/storyline was, I liked how the film was its own entity apart from the Alien series with a more philosophical concern. This first trailer makes Covenant look like nothing more than a direct remake of Scott's original 1979 film. I'm hoping Fassbender will elevate this one the same way he did with Prometheus.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#185 Post by tenia » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:41 am

Too bad the philosophical concern was quite superficial and un-original.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#186 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:24 am

Roger Ryan wrote:Yes, and the spooky rendition of "Nature Boy" doesn't help.
So that's what it was. I heard it was going to be "Space Oddity".
Finch wrote:When I hear stuff like that
SpoilerShow
Katherine Waterston's character is reportedly going to be Ellen Ripley's mother
, it feels like a ham-fisted tie-in to the 1979 film, an expansion that I don't think is needed.
SpoilerShow
This would lead some credence to the reason why the Blomkamp film might be held back for story purposes. Kind of hope it's not true, but hopefully it's done in not such a ham-fisted way it could be.

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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#187 Post by J M Powell » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:51 am

John Cope wrote:Disappointed by the distinct lack of Noomi Rapace in the trailer.
IIRC they initially held back on admitting she would even be in the movie, until leaked set photos prompted her official addition to the cast list. My guess is she doesn't show up until halfway through the film, with the first act hinging on a search for her.

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Being
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott, 2017)

#188 Post by Being » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:50 pm

This trailer is underwhelming. Like Luke M, I was hoping this film would lead us to the Engineers' world and further develop that storyline. Instead, this looks like mostly cheap horror schlock and some of the soap-opera-level crew dynamics we witnessed in "Prometheus". At this point I could care less about the Xenomorph alien. That creature was played out years ago, when it started battling other film monsters in the likes of "Alien vs Predator". Didn't Ridley himself proclaim "The Beast is dead"?

Also, this trailer seems to give away several fairly significant plot points. One of the few small flames of hope for me in all of this is Fassbender.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#189 Post by cantinflas » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:02 am


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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#190 Post by Roger_Thornhill » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:30 pm

cantinflas wrote:Prologue: Last Supper
Truly underwhelming. This looks more and more like a reboot of the Alien franchise.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#191 Post by JabbaTheSlut » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:47 am

What a mess... the weakness of the script evident here. No dramaturgy here. Just bits and pieces. Generic mood music in generic use (The Important Speech). Is this the final thing? Feels more like a hastily edited promo reel.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#192 Post by PfR73 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:06 am

The credits on the YouTube page ("Conceived by Ridley Scott and 3AM, directed by Luke Scott, and produced by RSA Films.") indicate to me that this is not actually part of the film, but something extra that was shot while filming as a promotional piece, so I don't think it can be necessarily used as a gauge for the script/quality of the actual film.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#193 Post by JabbaTheSlut » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:13 pm

PfR73 wrote:The credits on the YouTube page ("Conceived by Ridley Scott and 3AM, directed by Luke Scott, and produced by RSA Films.") indicate to me that this is not actually part of the film, but something extra that was shot while filming as a promotional piece, so I don't think it can be necessarily used as a gauge for the script/quality of the actual film.
That explains.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#194 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:07 pm


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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#195 Post by All the Best People » Fri May 19, 2017 11:18 am

Re: Covenant:

A horror film prequel, the third in a series directed by a now nearly-80-year-old director harkening back to his early 40s, about how a creation will outlive and ultimately menace its creator. Those who haven't embraced Sir Ridley's Alien precursors will likely find this irony too rich, where a hallowed director is consumed and destroyed by the lasting work of his youth, but perhaps it's more productive to see them as a confrontation with mortality, a contemplation of legacy, and a frustrated, frightened howl at the unattainability of the answers to the big questions of human origin and fate: in space, everyone can hear that scream.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#196 Post by carmilla mircalla » Fri May 19, 2017 3:41 pm

I came to the realization that Scott's filmography is hacky peppered in with a few flukes. He's been open about concentrating on various aspects of production except the script and whereas someone like Scorsese who also doesn't write his own scripts either works with screenwriters or chooses scripts he knows can corroborate with his direction Scott simply shuffles his hand in a dentist office toy chest and hopes he picks something out that "looks cool". He should have retired long ago. He's definitely lost any shred of cinematic dignity and he's only going to hurt his body of work specifically that which can be taken seriously as achievments in film. He is really not a good film director at all. He should have just been an art director. Covenant is not enragingly bad but as bad as you'd expect. It's all over the place comapred even to Prometheus. Whatever connective tissue he was hoping to create he is not going to fix it by simply making more Alien movies.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#197 Post by hearthesilence » Fri May 19, 2017 5:30 pm

Rosenbaum had his number years ago:
Scott has turned out one eye-popping cult movie, Blade Runner, which was substantially altered from his own cut, and several more or less forgettable features: two respectable genre exercises (Alien and Someone to Watch Over Me), a so-so literary adaptation (The Duellists), a fluffy department-store Christmas window display (Legend), and an offensive anti-Japanese thriller (Black Rain). He’s not exactly an auteur — this former director of commercials brings a stylish sense of lighting, framing, and monumentality to a variety of visual subjects, but he needs a good script as badly as a musician needs an instrument. He seems to have lucked out this time. Callie Khouri’s screenplay (her feature debut) and the performances of Davis and Sarandon provide him with both an engine and a body; he provides the snazzy paint job. In other words, without the stellar work of these three women, he’d be lost.
He's done a handful of efficient, paint-by-number thrillers, but only three that really have any weight and that I'd care to revisit: Thelma & Louise, Blade Runner and to a lesser extent Alien. As Rosenbaum indicated, in every case Scott's work was bolstered more by his collaborators than the force of his own vision. Even Alien to me remains a triumph of art direction, and everything that remains interesting about it stems from those physical aspects of the film.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#198 Post by beamish13 » Fri May 19, 2017 5:31 pm

Dismissing Legend is too damn harsh, and I'd venture to guess that Rosenbaum had only seen the American cut. Someone to Watch Over Me is really great, too, and it remains woefully ignored.

I think Alien really did accomplish quite a bit, and O'Bannon/Shusett's idea about interplanetary travel eventually becoming so commonplace that it would create blue collar jobs is very interesting. The minimal amount of dialogue works beautifully, too.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#199 Post by carmilla mircalla » Fri May 19, 2017 5:58 pm

hearthesilence wrote:Rosenbaum had his number years ago:
Scott has turned out one eye-popping cult movie, Blade Runner, which was substantially altered from his own cut, and several more or less forgettable features: two respectable genre exercises (Alien and Someone to Watch Over Me), a so-so literary adaptation (The Duellists), a fluffy department-store Christmas window display (Legend), and an offensive anti-Japanese thriller (Black Rain). He’s not exactly an auteur — this former director of commercials brings a stylish sense of lighting, framing, and monumentality to a variety of visual subjects, but he needs a good script as badly as a musician needs an instrument. He seems to have lucked out this time. Callie Khouri’s screenplay (her feature debut) and the performances of Davis and Sarandon provide him with both an engine and a body; he provides the snazzy paint job. In other words, without the stellar work of these three women, he’d be lost.
He's done a handful of efficient, paint-by-number thrillers, but only three that really have any weight and that I'd care to revisit: Thelma & Louise, Blade Runner and to a lesser extent Alien. As Rosenbaum indicated, in every case Scott's work was bolstered more by his collaborators than the force of his own vision. Even Alien to me remains a triumph of art direction, and everything that remains interesting about it stems from those physical aspects of the film.
Wow. Thanks for that link. Can't believe it took me so long to realize about Scott.

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Re: Alien Franchise (Scott/Cameron/Fincher/Jeunet, 1979-?)

#200 Post by Finch » Fri May 19, 2017 7:04 pm

I'm amazed that anyone would want to know who the space jockey was and who the alien was created by. I like the thought that the alien is simply a force of nature. I hate the idea that a human being or a company or even an android created it.

I made the mistake of seeing Prometheus in the stupid hope that a director decades past his prime would return to old glories but I got so burned that I swore I wouldn't watch Alien Covenant. As soon as I heard the complaints about illogical behaviour, plot holes, tedious faux-philosophy and idiotic revisions to the alien life cycle in Covenant, I knew I'd dodged a bullet.

I heard someone say the Alien franchise is currently going through the same malaise as Star Wars during the prequel years. Thing is, this series is done for. The proposed Alien 5 sequel wouldn't have appealed to me, either (I don't like Cameron's film though it objectively is a good one). Sure, someone could be capable of making the xenomorph scary again but it'd be a big challenge to create an original story around it. Something along the lines of Vincent Ward's original draft for Alien 3 perhaps..

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