Collecting Criterion

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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Luke M
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#276 Post by Luke M » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:33 pm

cpetrizzi wrote:Who here has actual OCD? Someone mentioned this in an earlier post. Anyone who does is not going to like this unless you've been collecting every single release since Day 1.

What if an "authentic" collection means acquiring every permutation of every spine? For example, Criterion has released corrected discs (2nd, 3rd editions) for 1st edition discs like in Carlos and Dead Ringers. Also, Salò had the original release, the new logo "C" release, and the blu-ray release. The new Tati collection plus all the OOP original DVDs. All the versions of Seven Samurai including the restoration edition. AK 100 25 films. And so on.

This is more of a purely hypothetical question. I am more than happy to get a collection which represents all spines/movies even though I do have a few extra permutations here and there.
There were a couple months in 2012 when I owned every spine number (this included the re-released Salò). I thought it was madness to try and collect every permutation of a release and instead I continuously upgraded new versions of previously released spines. I collected Eclipse and for a time had every release. But it all became too much.

Collecting them all became a burden. You'd have to buy every release every month and when you see international dvd releases of films by Satyajit Ray, Béla Tarr, Lukas Moodyson, and Hou Hsiao-Hsien but you're stuck buying some British gangster flick or third tier French New Wave films you have little interest in watching - you begin questioning why you started collecting in the first place.

phantomforce
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#277 Post by phantomforce » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:26 pm

I collect cause its like art. I just wait for sales to binge on the new releases. Its not much different from going to see a movie once a week or picking up a bottle or two of wine / craft brew once a week. The best part is, if you truly regret your purchase Criterion's hold their value exceptionally well so you can always flip it for as much as you spent. I've purchased and sold a great amount of Criterions and every sale has basically netted me back my money spent and at worst would make my purchase seem like a rental.

But I still think the spine is art.

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Moe Dickstein
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#278 Post by Moe Dickstein » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:37 pm

If something captures my interest of course I would look at it or buy it. I have Metropolis even though it's Kino for example. I have maybe 1500 BDs and DVDs of which a bit over half are Criterion from when I completed my set at about 720 (Since then I went back to making films and money restricted me to about 25% of the releases since then, though I am now completing the Laserdisc criterion set which is both more challenging and cheaper in most respects)

I'm just talking about curated collecting - as this is the collecting thread. If something has a spine number in the mainline, I get it no matter if I will ever watch it or not because I've made the decision to do that. I don't only buy those films.

I have friends who collect LPs who want every album that say Casablanca Records put out, or whatever. I don't think they're saying they don't listen to any other sort of music, but perhaps some took it that way?

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Moe Dickstein
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#279 Post by Moe Dickstein » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:43 pm

Luke M wrote:
cpetrizzi wrote:Who here has actual OCD? Someone mentioned this in an earlier post. Anyone who does is not going to like this unless you've been collecting every single release since Day 1.

What if an "authentic" collection means acquiring every permutation of every spine? For example, Criterion has released corrected discs (2nd, 3rd editions) for 1st edition discs like in Carlos and Dead Ringers. Also, Salò had the original release, the new logo "C" release, and the blu-ray release. The new Tati collection plus all the OOP original DVDs. All the versions of Seven Samurai including the restoration edition. AK 100 25 films. And so on.

This is more of a purely hypothetical question. I am more than happy to get a collection which represents all spines/movies even though I do have a few extra permutations here and there.
There were a couple months in 2012 when I owned every spine number (this included the re-released Salò). I thought it was madness to try and collect every permutation of a release and instead I continuously upgraded new versions of previously released spines. I collected Eclipse and for a time had every release. But it all became too much.

Collecting them all became a burden. You'd have to buy every release every month and when you see international dvd releases of films by Satyajit Ray, Béla Tarr, Lukas Moodyson, and Hou Hsiao-Hsien but you're stuck buying some British gangster flick or third tier French New Wave films you have little interest in watching - you begin questioning why you started collecting in the first place.
I think one must define their own rationale for what they consider complete. We have a FB group thats dedicated to these concerns for the crazy ones that have tried to do a complete collection. For me its "best example" of each spine number, but for some its every release. its whatever you decide it should be.

For the Lasers I'm trying to get each edition released which is actually hugely more than I thought when I started because for most of the early releases there were unmarked later editions - the only way to tell it's a later pressing is to look at the Criterion address. If it's pre 1994 and has the Bridge Street address in NY its a later pressing so that doubled what I needed to track down to be "complete" in my estimation there. The laserdiscs have some exclusive films and extras, but I look at it like stamp or coin collecting, I appreciate the art and I enjoy discovering those details through the collecting itself, and both the collection itself and the hunt of finding them gives pleasure.

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#280 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:55 pm

Hey moe- is there any way you could get the commentaries off some of the lds where they've never been released in any other format? I've wanted to hear the magnificent ambersons one and the full King Kong one for like more than a decade now

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Moe Dickstein
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#281 Post by Moe Dickstein » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:17 pm

I'm sure there is. I'd have to figure out how to do it in my setup. Alternatively, LD players are pretty cheap and lots of copies of those two on eBay....

phantomforce
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#282 Post by phantomforce » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:40 pm

LD's are analog so it's just as easy as digitizing vinyl. Just connect the RCA outputs into a 1/4" adapter and plug it into any audio interface and record using a DAW or Audio editor.

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Moe Dickstein
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#283 Post by Moe Dickstein » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:43 pm

yeah I get that part - computer and LD are not near each other...

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Cash Flagg
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#284 Post by Cash Flagg » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:54 pm

matrixschmatrix wrote:I've wanted to hear the magnificent ambersons one and the full King Kong one for like more than a decade now
Here's The Magnificent Ambersons, and here's King Kong. (Clicking on the link will automatically begin downloading a rar file that can be expanded into mp3 format.)

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#285 Post by matrixschmatrix » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:12 pm

Haha awesome, thanks

phantomforce
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#286 Post by phantomforce » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:55 am

Moe, If you have an iPhone or iPad, one easy way to digitize would be to download an app such as Apogee's metarecorder app or even Apple's built in memo's app and with an adaptor hook the LD player up to the iPhone or iPad's 1/8 inch input with an adapter.

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tenia
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#287 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:59 am

domino harvey wrote:If I only watched movies that started with the letters A-G, that would be arbitrary and equivalent to Moe's methodology
I actually understand going through the vast pool of movies available in the world by priorizing that way.

I currently almost only watch movies released by Criterion, Arrow, MoC, the BFI and Carlotta, simply because they're releasing very good movies most of the time in very good releases most of the time so it just feels a good place to plunge and dig within stuff I have no idea what their artistic value can be or sometimes have never even heard of before. And if they're not the ones releasing these movies, I'm likely to simply let them slip, which is quite arbitrary too.

If they're stuff I can relate to, cinematographically speaking, then, though, I'm likely to pick them (for instance the Ozu Eclipse because I liked many Ozu movies so don't want to pass on these). I guess that's where I differ and am less arbitrary than some. But Criterion has a pace which I think is high enough so that you could spend your monthly BD budget in it (around $120 per month) and almost wouldn't have to look elsewhere.

However, I stopped buying them ALL (especially Criterion) because I got stuck like Luke M at some point on buying movies because Criterion released them but ended up being disappointed with them. Same goes with Arrow Video : I watched Blood Rage, The Mutilator, Nightmare City and Contamination, I won't get fooled again buying things like that anymore (not even on sale). Fortunately, I got to see Satan's Blade through a check disc, I can't even imagine how I would have felt if I bought it. I won't even ask screeners for Microwave Massacre and Slugs.

Zot!
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#288 Post by Zot! » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:50 am

The whole purpose of the Criterion Collection is that it should be a curated selection for people to enjoy as a holistic view into film. Obviously that is rather confining, but I could think of worse approaches. From a millenial perspective, this perhaps unimaginable, but it used to be that you watched what was in the cinema or the video store.

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tenia
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#289 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:20 am

Zot! wrote:it used to be that you watched what was in the cinema or the video store.
I'm "only" 29yo, but I definitely remember going to the local VHS video store (when I was 8 to about 15) and having to deal with what was available or not rather than what I wanted to see. On the other end, it helped ending up with movies I wasn't planning to see in the first place. I definitely remember ending up with John Woo's Hard Boiled on VHS when I was about 12, but it only was when I was 18 or 20 that I understood which movie I saw at that time (it was fun for sure, but I had no idea I was watching such a cult movie).

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movielocke
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#290 Post by movielocke » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:57 pm

so I had my spreadsheet calculate for me, because I was curious,

Good Morning is the longest between editions of any criterion release, at 16 years 10 months

The only other film that's been 16+ years between releases is Carnival of Souls at 16 years 3 months

Both were released originally in 2000

the only 1998 release that has not been upgraded nor is out of print is Summertime.

If it were upgraded next month, it would be 18 years 10 months between releases

Kwaidan, Picnic at Hanging Rock and Time Bandits all had 15 years+ between releases, and Insomnia was basically exactly 15 years apart.

The Night Porter at 14 years 11 months is the only film with a 14 year gap, and then starting with 13 years apart there are too many releases to bother listing them all.

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Werewolf by Night
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#291 Post by Werewolf by Night » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:58 pm

movielocke wrote:the only 1998 release that has not been upgraded nor is out of print is Summertime.
What puzzles me is that it was restored by the BFI and AMPAS in 2003 and yet still never upgraded. I've been holding off on buying the DVD for years because I expected a re-release or an upgrade to be just around the corner.

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dustybooks
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#292 Post by dustybooks » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:17 pm

Completely trivial question: is Summertime the only disc you can currently buy that still has the first DVD-era Criterion logo? (Assuming that new copies still do.)

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Re: Collecting Criterion

#293 Post by cdnchris » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:48 pm

No, there are others still in print including: Great Expectations, Oliver Twist, Andrei Rublev, Armageddon, Fishing with John, Taste of Cherry, Most Dangerous Game, Henry V, and And the Ship Sails On.

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dustybooks
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#294 Post by dustybooks » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:03 pm

Oh, duh, I don't know how I forgot about those. Thanks Chris.

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movielocke
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#295 Post by movielocke » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:15 pm

I think Mizoguchi might be the only director (with multiple releases) from the DVD only era to have had all his DVD versions upgraded (all two of them!)

hmm, I suppose the contemporary directors like Wes Anderson have had the same happen, but I think Mizoguchi might be the only classic/canonical director to have reached that mark.

mteller
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#296 Post by mteller » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:42 pm

What a fascinating observation.

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Gregory
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#297 Post by Gregory » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Also Tati and Resnais

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Drucker
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#298 Post by Drucker » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:45 pm

movielocke wrote:I think Mizoguchi might be the only director (with multiple releases) from the DVD only era to have had all his DVD versions upgraded (all two of them!)

hmm, I suppose the contemporary directors like Wes Anderson have had the same happen, but I think Mizoguchi might be the only classic/canonical director to have reached that mark.
Forgetting the Eclipse set? Or is that post-DVD-only-era?

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movielocke
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Collecting Criterion

#299 Post by movielocke » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:31 pm

Drucker wrote:
movielocke wrote:I think Mizoguchi might be the only director (with multiple releases) from the DVD only era to have had all his DVD versions upgraded (all two of them!)

hmm, I suppose the contemporary directors like Wes Anderson have had the same happen, but I think Mizoguchi might be the only classic/canonical director to have reached that mark.
Forgetting the Eclipse set? Or is that post-DVD-only-era?
no. main line releases is what I thinking of

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movielocke
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Re: Collecting Criterion

#300 Post by movielocke » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:18 am

movielocke wrote:I think Mizoguchi might be the only director (with multiple releases) from the DVD only era to have had all his DVD versions upgraded (all two of them!)

hmm, I suppose the contemporary directors like Wes Anderson have had the same happen, but I think Mizoguchi might be the only classic/canonical director to have reached that mark.
as best I can tell the following directors had at least 2 titles released before spine 450 (the introduction of bluray) and have since had all of said releases upgraded (not counting boxset spines):

Director - # upgraded
Cassavetes - 5
Tati - 4
Anderson - 3
Gilliam - 3
Inagaki - 3
Linklater - 2
Pennebaker - 2
Mizoguchi - 2
Antonioni - 2

So very few directors have actually had their catalog titles completely upgraded. that's out of 83 directors who had more than one film released in the first 450 (up through the current announcements, 160 directors have more than one film in the collection)

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