It is currently Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:24 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 219 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:35 pm
Finch wrote:
I'm amazed that anyone would want to know who the space jockey was and who the alien was created by. I like the thought that the alien is simply a force of nature. I hate the idea that a human being or a company or even an android created it.

Mark Kermode's sentiment too.


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:03 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am
I will start with I liked Prometheus (so that you can choose to ignore this post right now if you want).

So I guess I had some expectations. But this is now the worst film I have seen in the last 5 years, taking the mantle from Split. Save one scene, it is utterly dire in pretty much every department. Tonally all over the place at both a macro and micro level, you wonder how no one involved noticed?

I also thought it was visually poor which was surprising (surprising because that is usually the one thing Ridley Scott is good at).

More dishearteningly, the franchise is now at a place where what they are doing is retrospectively hurting the good films. I mean given what is shown in Covenant,
[Reveal] Spoiler:
the franchise shouldnt even be called Alien anymore.


3/10

ps: the one good scene comes both too far into the film (with too much drivel before) and too early (with too much drivel to follow).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:43 pm 

Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 6:25 pm
hearthesilence wrote:
Rosenbaum had his number years ago:

Quote:
Scott has turned out one eye-popping cult movie, Blade Runner, which was substantially altered from his own cut, and several more or less forgettable features: two respectable genre exercises (Alien and Someone to Watch Over Me), a so-so literary adaptation (The Duellists), a fluffy department-store Christmas window display (Legend), and an offensive anti-Japanese thriller (Black Rain). He’s not exactly an auteur — this former director of commercials brings a stylish sense of lighting, framing, and monumentality to a variety of visual subjects, but he needs a good script as badly as a musician needs an instrument. He seems to have lucked out this time. Callie Khouri’s screenplay (her feature debut) and the performances of Davis and Sarandon provide him with both an engine and a body; he provides the snazzy paint job. In other words, without the stellar work of these three women, he’d be lost.

He's done a handful of efficient, paint-by-number thrillers, but only three that really have any weight and that I'd care to revisit: Thelma & Louise, Blade Runner and to a lesser extent Alien. As Rosenbaum indicated, in every case Scott's work was bolstered more by his collaborators than the force of his own vision. Even Alien to me remains a triumph of art direction, and everything that remains interesting about it stems from those physical aspects of the film.

I think to discount "Alien" as nothing but "respectable genre" underestimates that film. The tension and fear that "Alien" provokes go beyond just art direction.

The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:49 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:44 pm
AbdullahalNasrallah wrote:
hearthesilence wrote:
The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.
This strikes me as a blatant attempt to sidestep "Prometheus" (the writers clearly perceiving it as a redheaded stepchild :|) but still give it a lip-service acknowledgement to arbitrarily tie up any loose ends.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:58 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm
I also liked Prometheus and I enjoyed it more than Covenant. I didn't think it was that bad but the worst was near the end.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:53 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:45 pm
MoonlitKnight wrote:
AbdullahalNasrallah wrote:
hearthesilence wrote:
The most disappointing aspect of "Covenant" is the cursory manner in which the engineers are "dealt with". Instead of a cheap throwaway flashback, I would love to have seen that drama with the engineers and Shaw play out in real time, in an actual movie.... not as a flashback. This was a big missed opportunity.
This strikes me as a blatant attempt to sidestep "Prometheus" (the writers clearly perceiving it as a redheaded stepchild :|) but still give it a lip-service acknowledgement to arbitrarily tie up any loose ends.


There's been talk of Scott's next Alien movie taking place between Prometheus and Covenant. Don't know how concrete that is, but it would be interesting


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:44 pm 

Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 2:38 pm
phred2321 wrote:
There's been talk of Scott's next Alien movie taking place between Prometheus and Covenant. Don't know how concrete that is, but it would be interesting


He said something like that in a TV interview about a week ago, if I recall correctly. I believe he said the next film would be called "Alien: Awakening" and would take place between Prometheus and Covenant. Not sure why he would make the films out of sequence like that?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:26 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:24 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Luke M wrote:
I also liked Prometheus and I enjoyed it more than Covenant. I didn't think it was that bad but the worst was near the end.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?
[Reveal] Spoiler:
This was really the film's biggest failing, and I think it largely falls on Scott's overly-telegraphed execution rather than the script; that said, what I was really hoping for was that the film was leading us to believe it was David pretending to be Walter, only to reveal after his betrayal that Walter had defeated David but came to embrace his philosophy around the superiority of androids to their human creators. That would have been structurally subversive and tied well into the established themes of the film, and made the prospect of further sequel-prequels more enticing.

Also irritating was the film's sloppy handle on time generally and how its last third in particular seemed to revise the xenomorph gestation period from what had been established in the original to instead whatever was convenient for the pacing of the film. The CGI was less than ideal as well, and just a handful of practical insert shots would have gone a long way to redeem some of the more shoddy purely digital elements.

In all, despite some promising elements and ideas (I was quite taken with the execution and visual composition of the opening sequence in particular), Covenant wasn't a total disaster but too uneven to come close to the peaks of the series thus far.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:06 pm
The twist at the end of this could be seen from light years away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:49 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:01 am
DarkImbecile wrote:
Luke M wrote:
I also liked Prometheus and I enjoyed it more than Covenant. I didn't think it was that bad but the worst was near the end.

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Did they really not expect us to know that was David? That's gotta be the biggest audience insult I've ever seen. Also, I guess this is more of a question, when David appears with a knife slash on cheek, this sorta works if you believe he's Walter but otherwise David slashed his own cheek because we saw him reach for a knife (and not actually anyone in the film). Is that right?
[Reveal] Spoiler:
This was really the film's biggest failing, and I think it largely falls on Scott's overly-telegraphed execution rather than the script; that said, what I was really hoping for was that the film was leading us to believe it was David pretending to be Walter, only to reveal after his betrayal that Walter had defeated David but came to embrace his philosophy around the superiority of androids to their human creators. That would have been structurally subversive and tied well into the established themes of the film, and made the prospect of further sequel-prequels more enticing.

Also irritating was the film's sloppy handle on time generally and how its last third in particular seemed to revise the xenomorph gestation period from what had been established in the original to instead whatever was convenient for the pacing of the film. The CGI was less than ideal as well, and just a handful of practical insert shots would have gone a long way to redeem some of the more shoddy purely digital elements.

In all, despite some promising elements and ideas (I was quite taken with the execution and visual composition of the opening sequence in particular), Covenant wasn't a total disaster but too uneven to come close to the peaks of the series thus far.




That makes a lot of sense when you consider that the main themes that the writers have been talking about in nearly every interview i've read is that its a film about discovering yourself and learning about free will. Unfortunately there are so many enormous gaps in the story and scenes cut out.. I mean was it really necessary for Lope and Hallett to be Husband and Man? They have been promoting them as the first Out couple in trilogy but aside from a split second of
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Lope attempting to kiss Hallett goodbye
there was no character development or backstory to even bring that up, though i'm sure we will see it all on the triple dip blu ray directors cut.

All that said, the best theory I've been able to accept about the ending is that
[Reveal] Spoiler:
David was able to infect Walter with his DNA, and like a virus it would slowly take over Walter making him a host. Not at all unrealistic considering they are synthetics and run by an OS. I missed this, but apparently there is a quick cut of David doing something to Walter's neck which is where he could have put the eggs (either by expanding the neck and stuffing the eggs down his throat, or whatever. The viral aspect makes sense during the scene where Walter is sitting at the monitor and one cut shows him disappointed that Daniels is undefeated and at the end Relieved that Daniels succeeds. During the scenes at the monitor he shows signs of both David and himself. Once Walter has become full David and has taken over the ship, his broadcast could have also transmitted the virus across all networks allowing David to access all ships. Obviously the theory isn't perfect, but it's the only one I've read that makes the most sense to me


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:00 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:01 am
Also, just to add, I actually thought Covenant was incredibly well done, script aside, its pure visual eye candy. Sure, it's not Alien, but it doesn't need to be. Like Star Wars TFA, adding as much as it can from the original, this one seemed to contain bits of every Alien and Prometheus while also detouring into Scott's new official canon, which is fine. At the end of the day, this man is 80 years old and still churning out some heavy films that most of the new generation can only hope to accomplish once in their career. Also, The Martian just came out little more than a year ago and that was hardly a paint-by-number film. Scott has never been an Auteur anyway, aside from his superior Commercial / Art Direction experience, this is one of the last true maverick directors left, working with huge ensemble egos in less than ideal situations with massive crews and post work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:13 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
phantomforce wrote:
Also, just to add, I actually thought Covenant was incredibly well done, script aside, its pure visual eye candy. Sure, it's not Alien, but it doesn't need to be. Like Star Wars TFA, adding as much as it can from the original, this one seemed to contain bits of every Alien and Prometheus while also detouring into Scott's new official canon, which is fine. At the end of the day, this man is 80 years old and still churning out some heavy films that most of the new generation can only hope to accomplish once in their career. Also, The Martian just came out little more than a year ago and that was hardly a paint-by-number film. Scott has never been an Auteur anyway, aside from his superior Commercial / Art Direction experience, this is one of the last true maverick directors left, working with huge ensemble egos in less than ideal situations with massive crews and post work.


I actually thought the visuals here were nothing special either save for the black goo/engineer flashback but that was mostly because of how interesting it was to see how the black goo functioned as a weapon. In terms of locations, sets and overall color palette it was just as interesting as the actual movie itself. I've always loved the Prometheus prologue with the sweeping landscape shots which I think is some of Scott's best captured visuals in his entire career but in all honesty I think Prometheus is a better movie here overall than Covenant and I do not have a very high opinion of the former either.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:47 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:01 am
I personally think the rendering of the engineers is the weakest visual in both Prometheus and Covenant, though in Covenant I think the CG rendering was at least not as distracting (the alien, engineers, etc.) as in Prometheus which completely took me out of the film every time they appeared. Visually though, my high praise is in the Space, Set design of the ship, etc. Unlike Prometheus, you can't deny that this FEELS like a modern Alien movie. I felt that the team on Covenant had a good reference with The Martian to make this film feel Out of this world and Futuristic, and at the same time somewhat realistic (aside from the flashback and engineer graveyard areas).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:14 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
phantomforce wrote:
I personally think the rendering of the engineers is the weakest visual in both Prometheus and Covenant, though in Covenant I think the CG rendering was at least not as distracting (the alien, engineers, etc.) as in Prometheus which completely took me out of the film every time they appeared. Visually though, my high praise is in the Space, Set design of the ship, etc. Unlike Prometheus, you can't deny that this FEELS like a modern Alien movie. I felt that the team on Covenant had a good reference with The Martian to make this film feel Out of this world and Futuristic, and at the same time somewhat realistic (aside from the flashback and engineer graveyard areas).


The Engineers were practical in both films.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:59 am 

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:01 am
Yes, I thought they added cg touch ups to them but I guess not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:21 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
I'm not expecting anything as profound as The Lobster, but can I ask how they handled the use of couples in Covenant? Is that a big thematic aspect of the film (say being explored through how one person reacts to losing their partner, or whether they actually might like the idea of killing off an annoying partner and see this as an opportunity!), or not too important in the way events play out?

I'm also curious if the whole David/Walter thing is about how an 'artificial couple' might work (or the solipsism of only being interested in yourself!). Does that resonate?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:20 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm
Re: relationships, I completely didn't pick up on Lope on Hallett. The David on Walter kiss reminded me of a certain Alex Rodriguez photo though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:21 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
Sounds interesting, though I'm disappointed that it is apparently not like Homer Simpson!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:34 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
colinr0380 wrote:
I'm not expecting anything as profound as The Lobster, but can I ask how they handled the use of couples in Covenant? Is that a big thematic aspect of the film (say being explored through how one person reacts to losing their partner, or whether they actually might like the idea of killing off an annoying partner and see this as an opportunity!), or not too important in the way events play out?

I'm also curious if the whole David/Walter thing is about how an 'artificial couple' might work (or the solipsism of only being interested in yourself!). Does that resonate?

There's absolutely NO weight to the relationships in this movie other than to serve cheap and rushed character motives and plot points.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 219 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




This site is not affiliated with The Criterion Collection