34 Andrei Rublev

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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RobertB
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:00 pm
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#451 Post by RobertB » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:37 pm

Caps are up on caps-a-holic. Looked worryingly contrast boosted so I did a random zoom. I want the extras, but the picture isn't an improvement to the Russian BD. Too much manipulation has meant loss of information. https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x=64 ... 0&i=9&go=1

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tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#452 Post by tenia » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:43 pm

I'm wondering instead if the russian disc has a gamma issue.

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RobertB
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#453 Post by RobertB » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:03 pm

At least it has pixels. Where Criterion has gray squares. I'm holding on to my Russian disc.

_shadow_
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:48 am

Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#454 Post by _shadow_ » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:34 pm

All the time it took to upgrade the DVD, and it's a compression fail. Really not good up close, especially since the Russian BD is there for comparison.

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=3&x=50 ... 0&i=0&go=1

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senseabove
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#455 Post by senseabove » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:08 pm

RobertB wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:03 pm
At least it has pixels. Where Criterion has gray squares. I'm holding on to my Russian disc.
What's the best source for getting Russian BDs shipped to the US?


EDIT: whoops, quoted the wrong post

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jsteffe
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#456 Post by jsteffe » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:47 pm

senseabove wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:08 pm

What's the best source for getting Russian BDs shipped to the US?
The last I checked, the Russian Blu-ray in question is out of print and has been for some time. In any case, because of Russian restrictions on exporting DVDs/Blu-rays, it's difficult to order them online from Russian sources such as Ozon. Some of the vendors sell bootlegs.

Personally, I'm happy with the Criterion edition. I've long felt that the image was too light on the Russian Blu-ray & I think Tenia may be right that it's a problem with the gamma levels. The Criterion looks fine in playback, even if the encoding doesn't look perfect when you blow up still frames.

EDIT: The other thing I should add is that the Russian Digital Elements/Mosfilm Blu-ray has fairly sparse subtitles. It could potentially make for a frustrating viewing experience if you do not understand spoken Russian. The Criterion is clearly superior in that respect. Everything considered, including the longer cut of the film now in HD, you can make a strong case for the Criterion edition as definitive for some time to come.
Last edited by jsteffe on Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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senseabove
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#457 Post by senseabove » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:01 am

I was asking more in general, not specifically for Rublev. I've a Russian-speaking friend who said he's not found a good way to import, and all I could suggest was a forwarding service. But thanks for the reply!

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RobertB
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#458 Post by RobertB » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:23 pm

My experience is the same as jsteffe's. I bought my Rublev when it was still in print, but I couldn't find anybody selling it from Russia. I checked Amazon many times until I found a seller who had it.

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hearthesilence
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#459 Post by hearthesilence » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:39 pm

The Criterion screencaps look fine when viewed at 100% (rather than zooming in beyond that), so I'm not sure I'd be that quick to dismiss it.

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bugsy_pal
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#460 Post by bugsy_pal » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:40 pm

You know, it looks to me from those caps-a-holic screenshots like the Criterion and Russian discs are exactly the same transfer (with the obvious framing difference) - I can see the same artefacts on both versions. I think the Criterion makes them a bit more obvious because they've bumped up the contrast a bit.

j99
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#461 Post by j99 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:47 am

Does anyone know the status of the Criterion blu ray reg 2 release? Has it been postponed, or withdrawn completely?

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MichaelB
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#462 Post by MichaelB » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:50 am

I'm assuming "withdrawn completely". The longer cut won't get through the BBFC thanks to the 1937 Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act, so they'd have to break their rule about UK and US releases being identical.

j99
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#463 Post by j99 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:53 am

Disappointing, but thanks for the response.

ari101
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#464 Post by ari101 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:22 am

Just viewed the 205 minute version and am quite disappointed. Is this the best we can ever expect for this version? Would Mosfilm perhaps have a better quality negative or other materials that would allow a better quality release?

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MichaelB
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#465 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:39 am

It's very unlikely that pre-print materials for this version of the film exist any more - Tarkovsky would have cut the original neg down to make the final version, with the offcuts most likely discarded as per usual practice. And since the longer cut never had any kind of release (even the final cut took years to emerge), it's very likely that the number of prints struck was in low single figures, and possibly even just the one.

Of course, it might be possible to create a hybrid version using footage from the shorter cut, but I suspect such a thing would be more irritating than otherwise. With something like, say, Mario Bava's Rabid Dogs it's unavoidable as the only surviving copy of Bava's original cut appears to be on poor-quality standard-definition video, but this is a slightly different case.

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Shrew
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#466 Post by Shrew » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:20 pm

Yeah, wasn't it suggested elsewhere in this thread that the print of the 205 minute version that sometimes screens in rep cinemas is the same one Scorsese originally smuggled out of Russia? The rough shape of the long cut is almost certainly why Criterion took so long to release this. But the fact that better materials were probably never going to surface, along with the growing consensus that the shorter cut was Tarkovsky's preferred version, meant they finally gave up waiting and released it.

FlickeringWindow
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#467 Post by FlickeringWindow » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:01 pm

The liner notes on the new Blu actually mention the Passion print was loaned by Scorsese to Criterion for the edition.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#468 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:33 pm

Shrew wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:20 pm
...But the fact that better materials were probably never going to surface, along with the growing consensus that the shorter cut was Tarkovsky's preferred version, meant they finally gave up waiting and released it.
I think it was just a matter of signing a deal with Mosfilm once that company did its own restoration on the shorter cut to put this film on Criterion's release schedule. I doubt there was much hope that better materials were going to surface for the initial long cut. I was about to go into more detail about that lone 35mm print of the 205 min. version that's been making the rounds in the U.S. for 15 years or more, but now realize I've been saying the same thing in multiple posts for the past six years! I'll stand by what I said Sept. 18th, 2012:
Roger Ryan wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:10 am
...that one existing 205 min. print is of poor enough quality that I imagine a Blu-ray release would be criticized unless the cleaner 185 min. edit was included as well...

ari101
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:49 am

Re: 34 Andrei Rublev

#469 Post by ari101 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:41 pm

So, is the Scorsese print the same as the one Soviet film archivists found in 1987?

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