A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 2019)

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#51 Post by domino harvey » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:13 pm

500 screen minimum according to the lawsuit. Amazon has literally no chance of winning this, as removing any personal feelings one way or the other, they are obviously in breach of contract on this film and the unproduced film

KJones77
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:35 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#52 Post by KJones77 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:14 pm

I know Allen is toxic now, but I agree with those who hope that he wins. I really like the cast and generally like his work, so I've been hoping to see this one.

User avatar
furbicide
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#53 Post by furbicide » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:43 am

domino harvey wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:13 pm
500 screen minimum according to the lawsuit. Amazon has literally no chance of winning this, as removing any personal feelings one way or the other, they are obviously in breach of contract on this film and the unproduced film
Hope you’re right, as Amazon have acted in a really cowardly manner here and, frankly, deserve what’s coming to them – and more importantly, there needs to be a precedent that’ll deter companies from doing this kind of thing.

Chances of an out-of-court settlement would have to be fair, though, right?

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#54 Post by MichaelB » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:00 am

Finch wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:50 pm
They'll probably settle out of court though frankly I hope Amazon win.
Why? Unless there's a legal nuance that we don't know about, it looks like open-and-shut breach of contract.

And the notion that Amazon entered into this agreement without any knowledge of a widely publicised scandal from decades earlier is laughable - and the scandal itself stemmed from a single thoroughly investigated but thus far entirely unproven allegation.

User avatar
furbicide
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#55 Post by furbicide » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:47 am

I guess the question might be more whether Allen has the energy or interest to pursue a full court case if Amazon is willing to come to an acceptable out-of-court arrangement (which they’d probably prefer, too). Indeed, a settlement may be his goal, particularly if he just wants his film out ASAP.

Anyway, clear guilt hasn’t stopped big companies and powerful individuals from settling out of court a thousand times before.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#56 Post by MichaelB » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:45 am

furbicide wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:47 am
Anyway, clear guilt hasn’t stopped big companies and powerful individuals from settling out of court a thousand times before.
Or even not settling at all. György Ligeti had an absolutely cast-iron copyright-infringement case against MGM over 2001: A Space Odyssey, for which they cleared the performance and recording rights to Ligeti's music, but presumably assumed that the composer himself was as dead as the two Strausses (although he'd ultimately outlive Stanley Kubrick by more than seven years).

Ligeti had no idea that his music was being used in the film until a friend tipped him off, so he went to see it in a cinema in Vienna armed with a stopwatch and was startled to find that there was more than half an hour of it. So he got in touch with MGM, who cheerfully admitted that he'd undoubtedly win every stage of any lawsuit that he brought against them, but that they'd appeal every step of the way and most likely bankrupt him with legal fees well before its conclusion, since they knew full well that exiled Hungarian avant-garde composers weren't exactly rolling in cash. So Ligeti gave up there and then.

Thankfully, he liked the film, and was happy to let Kubrick use his music in The Shining and Eyes Wide Shut - only this time with appropriate permissions and fees. And he conceded that the 2001 exposure didn't do his career and reputation any harm at all.

User avatar
aox
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:02 pm
Location: nYc

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#57 Post by aox » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:34 am

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:45 am
furbicide wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:47 am
Anyway, clear guilt hasn’t stopped big companies and powerful individuals from settling out of court a thousand times before.
Or even not settling at all. György Ligeti had an absolutely cast-iron copyright-infringement case against MGM over 2001: A Space Odyssey, for which they cleared the performance and recording rights to Ligeti's music, but presumably assumed that the composer himself was as dead as the two Strausses (although he'd ultimately outlive Stanley Kubrick by more than seven years).

Ligeti had no idea that his music was being used in the film until a friend tipped him off, so he went to see it in a cinema in Vienna armed with a stopwatch and was startled to find that there was more than half an hour of it. So he got in touch with MGM, who cheerfully admitted that he'd undoubtedly win every stage of any lawsuit that he brought against them, but that they'd appeal every step of the way and most likely bankrupt him with legal fees well before its conclusion, since they knew full well that exiled Hungarian avant-garde composers weren't exactly rolling in cash. So Ligeti gave up there and then.

Thankfully, he liked the film, and was happy to let Kubrick use his music in The Shining and Eyes Wide Shut - only this time with appropriate permissions and fees. And he conceded that the 2001 exposure didn't do his career and reputation any harm at all.
Have never read that. Very interesting story. Thanks for posting.

And yes, this seems open-and-shut for Allen. Even if there was a moral turpitude clause hidden in the contract, it wouldn't apply here since the scandal happened well before the contract and was highly publicized.

User avatar
dda1996a
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#58 Post by dda1996a » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:02 am

I won't ever know for sure but I don't think Allen is lacking money, so I'm guessing he just wants his film out (gotta keep the film a year streak going on after all)

User avatar
Aunt Peg
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:30 am

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#59 Post by Aunt Peg » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:41 am

dda1996a wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:02 am
I won't ever know for sure but I don't think Allen is lacking money, so I'm guessing he just wants his film out (gotta keep the film a year streak going on after all)
Is 2018 the first year since 1981 that Woody Allen hasn't had a US release for a film?

User avatar
Cremildo
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#60 Post by Cremildo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 am

dda1996a wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:02 am
I'm guessing he just wants his film out (gotta keep the film a year streak going on after all)
Already missed 2018, so the streak is lost.

User avatar
dda1996a
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#61 Post by dda1996a » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:04 am

My bad my sense of time is off, especially considering I saw the bad Wonder Wheel in '18. How long was his run? Maybe that's why he's really pissed

User avatar
Roger Ryan
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: A Midland town spread and darkened into a city

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#62 Post by Roger Ryan » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:49 pm

Aunt Peg wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:41 am
dda1996a wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:02 am
I won't ever know for sure but I don't think Allen is lacking money, so I'm guessing he just wants his film out (gotta keep the film a year streak going on after all)
Is 2018 the first year since 1981 that Woody Allen hasn't had a US release for a film?
This is correct - 1981 was the last year that didn't see an Allen film released. He also missed out in 1974 and 1970 if we're counting everything from 69's Take the Money and Run. He did make up for some of these lapses by releasing two films and/or TV projects in 1971, 1987, 1989, 1994, and 2016!

User avatar
Dylan
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:28 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#63 Post by Dylan » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:06 pm

The lawsuit is available online and is a fascinating read. Amazon clearly had no right or authority to back out of the contracts.

The lawsuit also reveals that pre-production on American Blues - specifically the visual design of the film - was well under way before Amazon backed out of the deal in June (like many of Allen's films, it was probably written to be filmed in the fall):

"Gravier hired and began paying people for early pre-production work on the 2018 Allen Film, and Plaintiffs obtained commitments from, among others, a highly regarded cinematographer and a highly regarded production designer to work on the 2018 Allen Film."

I assume they're referring to Vittorio Storaro and Santo Loquasto. Once Allen's career is back on track, hopefully American Blues is still his next film.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#64 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:23 pm

Wondering aloud if it'll be possible for anyone to weigh in on this film without a reviewer's tilt in one direction or another once it finally emerges. It seems as though those who are firmly in Allen's camp will be inclined to inflate its quality, while those who have written Allen off will (probably without watching it) dismiss it as terrible. It seems like a very easy thing to inflate a minor/failed Allen film to a major one since there's always hallmarks of quality filmmaking, so why not, I suppose - but I can't think of a movie in recent memory with more baggage hanging on its eventual critical reception

User avatar
Brian C
I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:58 am
Location: Chicago, IL

A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#65 Post by Brian C » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:53 pm

I don’t think that will be the problem so much. Rather, I think it’ll be hard for anyone to write about (in terms of pro reviews anyway) in a way that talks about the film at all - I expect reviews to be overtaken by navel-gazing wankery about what it all means to be watching a Woody Allen movie at all.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#66 Post by swo17 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:56 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:23 pm
I can't think of a movie in recent memory with more baggage hanging on its eventual critical reception
I Love You Daddy unless you aren't counting it because there will be no critical reception

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#67 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:58 pm

Yeah, I doubt that sees the light of day through any channel that spawns a same-day, legitimate critical appraisal
Brian C wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:53 pm
I don’t think that will be the problem so much. Rather, I think it’ll be hard for anyone to write about (in terms of pro reviews anyway) in a way that talks about the film at all - I expect reviews to be overtaken by navel-gazing wankery about what it all means to be watching a Woody Allen movie at all.
I don't think either is a problem, per se, just sort of a strange byproduct of all of this. But your prediction is also correct, and they're one and the same in the respect that it's going to have a major influence on the conversation around this film when it inevitably emerges. What I'm morbidly curious about is whether that'll be before or after Allen's statistically approaching death, and how that impacts the lens people view this through, if at all

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#68 Post by Finch » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:44 pm

Guys, I was in a rotten mood when I made my post and should have refrained from making it in the first place. You are absolutely right: Woody Allen may be a creep at best and a child abuser at worst (I believe Dylan Farrow's accusations) but the terms of the contract should have been honoured and Amazon should draw a line under this and pay out now rather than letting this drag on.

User avatar
Professor Wagstaff
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:27 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#69 Post by Professor Wagstaff » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:58 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:49 pm
Aunt Peg wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:41 am
dda1996a wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:02 am
I won't ever know for sure but I don't think Allen is lacking money, so I'm guessing he just wants his film out (gotta keep the film a year streak going on after all)
Is 2018 the first year since 1981 that Woody Allen hasn't had a US release for a film?
This is correct - 1981 was the last year that didn't see an Allen film released. He also missed out in 1974 and 1970 if we're counting everything from 69's Take the Money and Run. He did make up for some of these lapses by releasing two films and/or TV projects in 1971, 1987, 1989, 1994, and 2016!
Melinda and Melinda didn't open in the US or UK until 2005, though it did play at festivals in 2004, plus opening in some other markets. Otherwise, no stateside release that year.

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#70 Post by Finch » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:59 pm

I don't understand the appeal of the "a film a year" streak. More often than not you burn yourself out and I can't think of few more pertinent examples than Woody Allen. Out of the last seventeen, eighteen films, I imagine most critics would agree there are two (Midnight in Paris, Blue Jasmine), maybe three at a push that are any good at all. Regardless of where you stand on the Farrow accusations, that's an abysmal hit to miss ratio. And Allen has never been a reliable judge of his own work (who in their right mind prefers Match Point to the 70s/80s films?) so it's no wonder he didn't quit while he was ahead. The Woody Allen of the last twenty years reminds me of the Clint Eastwood of the last twenty years, both seemingly more concerned with sheer productivity than anything else. Had Allen called it a day in the late 90s, his legacy would have been unassailable. The only hatchet job on Allen's legacy is the man's own late career output.

User avatar
Fiery Angel
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:59 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#71 Post by Fiery Angel » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:18 pm

"I imagine most critics"

Thanks for speaking for so many people. I'm sure others will jump in here too, but I would rate far more than two or three of his last "seventeen, eighteen" as being worthwhile (and I dislike Blue Jasmine).

User avatar
HJackson
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#72 Post by HJackson » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:33 pm

I don't follow Allen and his reception closely enough to know if he's right (other than Wonder Wheel, the most recent of his films I've actually seen is Deconstructing Harry) but I don't see anything wrong with taking a punt at what the critical consensus on his late work is as a counterpoint to comments about his rate of output - which seem to be applauding a feat of stamina rather than substantive filmmaking prowess. Looking through a list of his films from this millenium, only a few really jump out as darlings that I'm slightly embarrassed to have not seen - that's a somewhat highter bar than being deemed "any good at all", but the point stands.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#73 Post by domino harvey » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:34 pm

Can we not do this?

User avatar
Cremildo
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: Brazil
Contact:

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#74 Post by Cremildo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:45 pm

As for the alleged critical consensus regarding his films in the last two decades, frankly, who cares? They eviscerated Cassandra's Dream, which I'd comfortably place on a top 10 of his work. (Match Point and Vicky Christina Barcelona, which Finch conveniently failed to mention, don't lag far behind, although they did receive good reviews). I watched Wonder Wheel half expecting an embarrassing, unendurable misfire, but instead I got a perfectly serviceable, albeit minor, dramatic Woody Allen movie with a great central performance. I was utterly charmed by Magic in the Moonlight etc. If Allen worked less frequently, maybe we wouldn't even get those movies.

About Eastwood: He made Mystic River, Million Dollar Baby, and Letters from Iwo Jima in the last twenty years. I'd take any of those over all the films he made previously, except perhaps Unforgiven.

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: A Rainy Day in New York (Woody Allen, 20??)

#75 Post by Finch » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:38 pm

Fiery Angel wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:18 pm
"I imagine most critics"

Thanks for speaking for so many people. I'm sure others will jump in here too, but I would rate far more than two or three of his last "seventeen, eighteen" as being worthwhile (and I dislike Blue Jasmine).
Can I just be clear that what I was talking about was what I took the consensus of film critics to be, and that I was not trying to speak for members of this board and least of all trying to tell you what you are supposed to like or dislike? (I don't like Blue Jasmine either. I only mentioned that and Midnight in Paris as those seemed to be the two that most critics seemed to agree on as not just being the best late Allen films, but also films that they geniuinely enjoyed).

Look, if 2000-2010 Woody Allen holds treasures for you, then I don't want to take away from that. Me though, I can't stand any of it, and the controversy around Dylan Farrow has made films like Manhattan virtually unwatchable for me. It's even started to take out all the joy from watching Hannah and her Sisters or Crimes and Misdemeanours. Probably best I refrain from visiting any Woody Allen related thread going forward. The man just makes me angry.

Post Reply