True Detective

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Murdoch
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Re: True Detective

#351 Post by Murdoch » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:39 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:45 pm
The show takes its cues and themes from noir, so I’m sure we’re meant to understand from the get-go these stories are about flawed, damaged antiheroes with only partial understandings who manage in spite of themselves to do something of value in the end, however qualified.
This is certainly true however this feels more like a straight-faced Mickey Spillane adaptation than the Hammett-esque whirlwind of season one. Again though, this is from a guy who's only seen two episodes.

You and Big Ben are probably right that I'm passing judgment too soon and if there are reports that the fascistic police power on display is criticized or addressed later, then I'll come back around to it. It's just, based on what I saw, there was very little critique of these actions. You also hit on a good point regarding the characters of season 3, and one that addresses the flaws I've seen in both this season and the past one: they just aren't all that interesting. I'd have watched Harrelson and McConaughey ramble on at a bar for a full season, but nobody grabs me since that initial pairing.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: True Detective

#352 Post by Mr Sausage » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:03 pm

I suspect the show is building to some miscarriage of justice, hence the lawsuit to reopen the case spearheaded by the accused's family we hear about in the second timeline. And there have been some pointed allusions to the West Memphis 3. So there is a chance the abuses of power we see will culminate in something obviously negative. We'll have to see.

By the by, I think the reason the two detectives were so mad at the politician isn't because he wouldn't sign off on their idea, but that the idea he did go with gave away too much and ruined their advantage.

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Big Ben
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Re: True Detective

#353 Post by Big Ben » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:54 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:03 pm
By the by, I think the reason the two detectives were so mad at the politician isn't because he wouldn't sign off on their idea, but that the idea he did go with gave away too much and ruined their advantage.
This is correct. As I'm sure you'll all aware the police sometimes intentionally withhold information so that if someone slips up and either intentionally or unintentionally the police can nail them for it. In the case of say, specifics about a murder for instance, even topical information can lead to further investigation. Hays and his partner are mad because a very specific piece of crime scene information is given out by a politician not because they're intentionally being assholes (In this case at least.). These types of executive decisions can ruin a case if they're not done correctly.

And I agree with you about miscarriage of justice though. Spoilers for Episode 3
SpoilerShow
Although it hasn't been clarified exactly what Hays in 2015 (Dementia, Alzheimer's) the hallucination he has near the end of the episode makes it clear he intentionally left something at the crime scene. A good, moral detective wouldn't do that so the question is, why would he do that? I speculated on the previous page that I felt Hays was an unreliable narrator. I still very much think that's the case. The question I pose now is is if this is indeed the case which parts of the truth are being distorted by Hays fully in charge of his faculties and which ones are being caused by his inability to recall information?
I'd also like to say that the Season did make a reference to Lovecraftian content again, this time in the form of The Plateu Leng. Leng was a plateau where multiple realities converged simultaneously. It was indeed a location in the mythos but where exactly where it existed in the Universe varied due to it's nature. The reference may not come again in the same way Carcosa did in Season One but it's a nice nod to the current seasons current incongruity. A book with the title is seen in the first episode while the house is being searched.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: True Detective

#354 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:09 am

Some unintentionally funny stuff this week, but my favorite line's got to be "what the fuck's a Donahue?".

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Big Ben
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Re: True Detective

#355 Post by Big Ben » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:05 am

I was certainly amused by a comedic edit involving a wall. Is that what you're referring to? I can't help but feel that was intentional. I am however pleased to see that certain narrative threads are beginning to converge despite what appeared to be a bunch of red herrings showing up this week.

Of interest though is Hays telling the priest that he cannot partake in Communion because he has sinned and hasn't been to confession. Hays essentially admits after the priest offers to do it that he essentially states that he's not apparently sorry and yet cannot avoid them either. Evidently he is not capable of holding this view forever.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: True Detective

#356 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:19 am

I was thinking more of the scene where they're in the car after the trailer park with the smashed windshield. One of the visual hallmarks of the first season is all the scenes in cars between the two leads (maybe used a couple times in S2 as well), so that was perhaps a nice twist on some of the established cliches of the show. Since this was his first credited episode, I've got to think that was one of David Milch's contributions.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: True Detective

#357 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:44 am

Heads up, the next episode is streaming already, presumably to get more eyes on it over the weekend as in it's usual spot there's some pigskin going on.

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Big Ben
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Re: True Detective

#358 Post by Big Ben » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:23 am

I suppose part of the reality of dealing with eight hours of something is that occasionally some things feel drop fed. A minor complaint I guess but I doubt I'm alone in this department. Granted we still have three hours left to go! I was really quite pleased with the dialogue in episode five as tensions begin to mount. A certain sequence, which I feel goes on just long enough finally gives Dorff and Ali a chance to show everything they've got and when it ended I just ended up chuckling when Warren Zevon came on.

Oh! And regarding the Universe this is in:
SpoilerShow
This is indeed the same Universe as the first season. In episode four you can see Marty and Rust in a Newspaper clipping on the Reporter's laptop.
Image

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: True Detective

#359 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:36 pm

I found it to be pretty powerfui in places. Hays as an old man is heartbreaking to watch, putting the pieces together against the tide of his senility. The death and discord never too far behind, even when he's in bed with his family.
SpoilerShow
I'm glad that the West Memphis 3 angle I spoke of just turned out to be a red herring. Seeing the interrogated teen as an older man, the mental scars of his ordeal showing up made me feel for him in that moment, even if there was more than just a little racism behind it.
I hope Dorff's phone is ringing off the hook btw. Ali is the center of attention and doing it effortlessly, but he's holding up his end just as perfectly.

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Big Ben
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Re: True Detective

#360 Post by Big Ben » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:59 pm

When you speak of it like that I'm wondering now if I laughed because I was relieved. Seeing two old men realize just how petty their conflicts are was pretty powerful to see. The scene on the porch is a definite highlight for me this season.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: True Detective

#361 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:23 pm

It's from a more personal place for me, seeing my parents get up there in age. Some years ago with my mother I watched a TV special on the 70th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, and she got quite emotional because it reminded her of my grandfather. I had the similar experience with the Ken Burns Vietnam doc, in part because of the vets being interviewed, opening up in a way they hadn't before maybe because it was their last chance too before their memories started to fail them just as Hays' does in the 2015 timeline.

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Big Ben
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Re: True Detective

#362 Post by Big Ben » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:07 pm

My grandfather had dementia and had good and bad days just like the show portrays. What's remarkable accurate to my personal experience is the gaps that are experienced in memory. Hays for instance can remember a great deal about the case that still bothers him but cannot remember specifics about his own family. My grandfather could remember to a tee remember his experiences in Korea (Although he refused to speak about it much.) and his working in the oil business but could not for the life of him remember basic tasks like how to shower. I'm pleased that Pizzolatto appears to have done at least some research because it really hits close to home.

Most humorously to me however was the revelation that one of Pizzolatto's biggest inspirations, James Lee Burke lives about three hours drive from me here in Montana. What a world!

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: True Detective

#363 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:18 pm

My dad just started to have serious memory problems over the past year. He has a great deal of problem with short-term memory, sometimes forgetting things he did a few minutes ago, yet he often shares long-term memories that are decades old, likely in some sort of an effort to exhibit to us that his memory still functions. I found the 2015 scene where Hays ends up at the intersection at night, without any idea how he got there or why, to be rather difficult to watch since our first signs that my dad was having memory trouble was when he used to phone us from the grocery store asking us why he was there. So far, how they've handled the memory-loss has been one of the strongest aspects of the season thus far, as I find a lot of them to be heart-breakingly accurate.

Meanwhile, am I really supposed to feel that much sympathy for Freddy Burns's fragile mental state?

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Re: True Detective

#364 Post by black&huge » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:56 pm

Why was...
SpoilerShow
wim wenders credited at the end? Maybe he has been the entire time but I only watched through last night's credits to see who performed the song playing. I didn't catch that, either.

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Big Ben
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Re: True Detective

#365 Post by Big Ben » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:40 pm

black&huge wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:56 pm
Why was...
SpoilerShow
wim wenders credited at the end? Maybe he has been the entire time but I only watched through last night's credits to see who performed the song playing. I didn't catch that, either.
I would imagine it had to do with inspiration maybe? Not that I think the two have all that much in common. Warren Zevon performed the end song at the end by the way. Desperados Under the Eaves. A song about alcoholism and the world generally being terrible.

black&huge
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Re: True Detective

#366 Post by black&huge » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:01 am

Big Ben wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:40 pm

Warren Zevon performed the end song at the end by the way. Desperados Under the Eaves. A song about alcoholism and the world generally being terrible.
Thanks a whole lot for this!

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Re: True Detective

#367 Post by JabbaTheSlut » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:50 am

It’s Crazy how the same episode can have a scene so painfully badly written as the couple dinner at Dorff’s character home and the exquisite porch scene. Ali and Dorff are amazing.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: True Detective

#368 Post by Roger Ryan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:57 am

Big Ben wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:40 pm
black&huge wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:56 pm
Why was...
SpoilerShow
wim wenders credited at the end? Maybe he has been the entire time but I only watched through last night's credits to see who performed the song playing. I didn't catch that, either.
I would imagine it had to do with inspiration maybe? Not that I think the two have all that much in common. Warren Zevon performed the end song at the end by the way. Desperados Under the Eaves. A song about alcoholism and the world generally being terrible.
Wenders (who is known for his still photography as well as his directorial work) took the photo of the dilapidated drive-in movie theater that is featured in the opening credit sequence. I believe the photo is referred to as "Texas Drive-In" so perhaps Wenders took the photo during the production or pre-production of his film Paris, Texas.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: True Detective

#369 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:32 am

JabbaTheSlut wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:50 am
It’s Crazy how the same episode can have a scene so painfully badly written as the couple dinner at Dorff’s character home and the exquisite porch scene. Ali and Dorff are amazing.
Of the major characters, Hays' wife is maybe the weakest link here, coming as a surprise to nobody I'm sure. Pizzolatto has a bumpy history with female characters, and this season is largely no exception. Thankfully she isn't written as a cliche of black women, but I'm not as convinced by her as I am everyone else around her. Even the Purcell's kids' mother had a nice moment with her showing some vulnerability before turning up the white-trash factor to 11.

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Big Ben
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Re: True Detective

#370 Post by Big Ben » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:22 am

Bit of some retread here although I'm uncertain at this point if it's intentional. Spoilers for Episode 6 and the end of Season 1.
SpoilerShow
Seeing as the first two seasons take place in the same Universe I'm wondering if what's occurring with this Pink Room is at all tied into the intrigue into the "cult" and high ranking officials that appeared in the first season. Part of the whole "Weird Fiction" concept that True Detective belongs to is that things end abruptly and with loose ends (Although Pizzolatto has of course not introduced some legitimate cosmic horror. :D ) something I know was a criticism of the first season's ending. I'm wondering now if Pizzolatto is attempting to tie up some loose ends or expand upon horrors seen the first time around. Either way I'm waiting for more.
Of note to me again in this episode was the reflection on past male toxicity and how harmful it was to relationships. I really liked the sequence between Hays and his son in the backyard. I also sincerely hope Stephen Dorff is getting nonstop calls asking for more of him. He's turned out to be a real surprise here.

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Andre Jurieu
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Re: True Detective

#371 Post by Andre Jurieu » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:10 pm

Dorff has been steady and effective throughout. The stasis of his performance is a nice contrast to Scoot McNairy's volatility, and kind of enhances the bond between their characters.

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