1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#251 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:30 am


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tenia
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#252 Post by tenia » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:37 am

Svet is trying hard in this one :
"It is true that there is some room for improvement, but all films actually have native density fluctuations that not only will be retained on a new master (4K or 2K), but because of their native qualities will almost certainly be exacerbated. For example, screencapture #7 highlights a drop in density levels with special effects work that will look even rougher on a new master."
So we should actually rejoice that Criterion only got pre-existing HD masters because new restorations would actually make these movies worse looking.

I have no idea what he means by "density fluctuations being retained on a new master" though. What he means by "density fluctuations" usually relates to heterogeneous coarse grain and thick aspect, typical from dated HD masters, but that's precisely what newer restorations would improve on.

ComradeMisato
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#253 Post by ComradeMisato » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:54 am

The most obvious ones are on the three films from the third disc where it appears that there is some overexposing of the bottom end of the frame that reveals camera movement/or the reel transitions.
Svet sees a visible editing area and doesn't know what he's looking at, but we should trust and value his opinion on images sourced from film.

Also what kind of absolute layman's take is "Optical processes result in some loss of quality, so when you think about it, isn't it a good thing none of the other shots look very sharp either?"

While he's at it, why doesn't he also complain about old movies having "bad graphics" or lament the fact that the images are letterboxed/pillarboxed and don't fill his entire screen?

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tenia
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#254 Post by tenia » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:33 am

To be fair, he usually knows better, but there are a few very specific things that seem completely foreign to him (the 24/25fps justification for Dekalog and the lack of rolling shutter on TV screens visible in an episode for instance). But it's a completely different thing indeed to twist things to the point you're basically saying "new restorations are pointless". Sure optical effects shots would be even more jarring, but still : it'd yield a better result anyway, and it's not as if there aren't tons of movies lavishly restored to prove how benefic it is.
Such an assessment is something I'd expect from a blog whose PQ review usually is 2 lines long.

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MichaelB
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#255 Post by MichaelB » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:29 am

I remember a time when he really blew up at me on Blu-ray.com, wagging his finger so hard that I'm surprised he could still type with it afterwards.

My crime? I'd posted what I thought was a completely uncontroversial comment to the effect that Arrow's then-new 2K original-neg cinematographer-supervised restoration of The Long Good Friday gives the lie to countless reviewers who claimed that older versions were "the best we're going to get" because of the film's "low budget". Svet, bizarrely, interpreted this as an attack on Blu-ray.com specifically, even though this was a commonplace observation amongst many reviewers - in fact, it's the kind of knee-jerk assumption I myself might have made back in the day. I didn't even look up the Blu-ray.com review (which wasn't by Svet) before making my comment, as it clearly wasn't necessary.

But what I remember most vividly was the sheer vehemence of his response (he sounded properly angry, instead of the usual faux-bonhomie): apparently I was "being really embarrassing and unprofessional" in "trying to shame Blu-ray.com". I was obviously doing nothing of the kind, and so many people leaped to my defence (and none to his) that he ended up deleting the entire exchange (including my original comment), but I remember being fascinated by how I'd entirely inadvertently tweaked such a clearly exposed nerve.

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tenia
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#256 Post by tenia » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:18 am

Answered in the dedicated thread.

ComradeMisato
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#257 Post by ComradeMisato » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:27 pm

Full review on DVDBeaver.

No surprises to speak of.

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FrauBlucher
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1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#258 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:57 am

TCM has done me a big favor by showing these on Friday nights in October. Watching several over the past few weeks made realize I don’t really need to own the boxset. As much as these entertained me as a kid, now not so much. Although if the box had the Japanese ending of King Kong vs. Godzilla I would’ve been tempted as I’ve never seen it. But now I will get to save some money.

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Big Ben
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#259 Post by Big Ben » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:00 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:57 am
TCM has done me a big favor by showing these on Friday nights in October. Watching several over the past few weeks made realize I don’t really need to own the boxset. As much as these entertained me as a kid, now not so much. Although if the box had the Japanese ending of King Kong vs. Godzilla I would’ve been tempted as I’ve never seen it. But now I will get to save some money.
There isn't one. The ending plots are exactly the same in both the United States and Japan. It's an urban legend.

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movielocke
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#260 Post by movielocke » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:51 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:TCM has done me a big favor by showing these on Friday nights in October. Watching several over the past few weeks made realize I don’t really need to own the boxset. As much as these entertained me as a kid, now not so much. Although if the box had the Japanese ending of King Kong vs. Godzilla I would’ve been tempted as I’ve never seen it. But now I will get to save some money.
The Ben Mankiewicz intros seem to be getting increasingly deranged, as if one staff writer assigned the intros was forced to binge the entire series in a day and a half and at this point in the series was a dozen Red Bull’s in and at a “fuck it. whatever” phase of writing them


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Big Ben
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#262 Post by Big Ben » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:30 am

I'd argue that the DVD is worse because of the cropping.

Orlac
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#263 Post by Orlac » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:55 am

Big Ben wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:00 pm
FrauBlucher wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:57 am
TCM has done me a big favor by showing these on Friday nights in October. Watching several over the past few weeks made realize I don’t really need to own the boxset. As much as these entertained me as a kid, now not so much. Although if the box had the Japanese ending of King Kong vs. Godzilla I would’ve been tempted as I’ve never seen it. But now I will get to save some money.
There isn't one. The ending plots are exactly the same in both the United States and Japan. It's an urban legend.
It's just about the only thing they didn't change. We're talking about a re-edit where a guy holds up a tape recorder while the dub says "I'll get a light check."

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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#264 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:43 am

Big Ben wrote:There isn't one. The ending plots are exactly the same in both the United States and Japan. It's an urban legend.
Really? When the movie ends in Japan King Kong is seen swimming away?

Orlac
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#265 Post by Orlac » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:37 am

FrauBlucher wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:43 am
Big Ben wrote:There isn't one. The ending plots are exactly the same in both the United States and Japan. It's an urban legend.
Really? When the movie ends in Japan King Kong is seen swimming away?
Yep, Kong is the hero of the film, Godzilla the villain. At the time, Kong was the bigger monster star too. Most of the film's budget was spent on the rights to Kong - as opposed to building Kong, who here looks distinctly joke-shopish.

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Big Ben
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#266 Post by Big Ben » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:22 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:43 am
Really? When the movie ends in Japan King Kong is seen swimming away?
Yes it's been an urban legend for a long time and was started in Famous Monsters of Film Land. Word of mouth has kept the myth around for over fifty years to the point that even my old man is aware of it and has erroneously repeated it. But it's a really, really common misconception due to the fact that the original Japanese version wasn't available to American audiences to dispel the myth. There are some minor edits though.
Wikipedia wrote:In the Japanese version, as Kong and Godzilla are fighting underwater, a very small earthquake occurs. In the American version, producer John Beck used stock footage of a violent earthquake from the film The Mysterians to make the climactic earthquake seem far more violent and destructive.

The dialogue is slightly different. In the Japanese version onlookers are wondering if Godzilla might be dead or not as they watch Kong swim home and speculate that it is possible he survived. In the American version, onlookers simply say, "Godzilla has disappeared without a trace" and newly shot scenes of reporter Eric Carter have him watching Kong swim home on a viewscreen and wishing him luck on his long journey home.

As the film ends and the screen fades to black, "Owari" ("The end") appears on screen. Godzilla's roar followed by Kong's is on the Japanese soundtrack. This was akin to the monsters' taking a bow or saying goodbye to the audience as at this point the film is over. In the American version, only Kong's roar is present on the soundtrack.

Orlac
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#267 Post by Orlac » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm

I'd like it if the new KKvG has alternative endings, so depending on which screenining you go to, one of them clearly wins!

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movielocke
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#268 Post by movielocke » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:37 pm

Wow, Godzilla vs Gigan is incredibly terrible on its own (lack of merits) but also terrible even relative to the other films in the series, at one point, they put two Barbie dolls in a medium shot in one of the fake buildings being destroyed as though that were the same as human extras. Glad TCM aired it, because I was quite curious about the films not on the channel.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#269 Post by FrauBlucher » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:24 pm

The Godzilla movies that came out in the 70s were pretty awful.

Orlac
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#270 Post by Orlac » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:28 pm

I love them, they are totally bonkers.

Orlac
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#271 Post by Orlac » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:29 pm

movielocke wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:37 pm
Wow, Godzilla vs Gigan is incredibly terrible on its own (lack of merits) but also terrible even relative to the other films in the series, at one point, they put two Barbie dolls in a medium shot in one of the fake buildings being destroyed as though that were the same as human extras. Glad TCM aired it, because I was quite curious about the films not on the channel.
I think the dolls are meant to be statues or mannequins. The films were noticeably avoiding human extras deaths by that point - the brutal Godzilla vs Hedorah excepted.

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Big Ben
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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#272 Post by Big Ben » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:02 am

movielocke wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:37 pm
Wow, Godzilla vs Gigan is incredibly terrible on its own (lack of merits) but also terrible even relative to the other films in the series, at one point, they put two Barbie dolls in a medium shot in one of the fake buildings being destroyed as though that were the same as human extras. Glad TCM aired it, because I was quite curious about the films not on the channel.
May I ask how many Godzilla films have you seen? This is pretty standard and well, if you're not going to buy into the low budget aloofness (And I mean no offense in this statement) you best save your money. I wonder sometimes how much of Godzilla's success was because of genuine interest and how much was driven by it simply existing as a know money making quantity (Ex: Endless Slasher sequels) that people would simply go out to because it was a way to spend an afternoon. Don't get me wrong I love this type of stuff but I would be incredibly dishonest if I were to try and argue that all Godzilla films were quality films.
FrauBlucher wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:24 pm
The Godzilla movies that came out in the 70s were pretty awful.
Godzilla vs Megalon for instance was shot in three weeks and I think it really shows.

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Re: 1000 Godzilla: The Showa-Era Films, 1954-1975

#275 Post by swo17 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:58 am

Code: Select all

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